One of my puppy owners has been in touch today to say that her boy has lots of food allergies. I am so gutted. Puppies now over 2 years Los and have to say that the mating has never and never will be repeated . I kept one of the puppies from that litter and he is fine and none of the other puppy owners have come back to me with any problems. Have got to say they the puppy owner does not blame me but I feel so bad that one of my boys is going through this. In all the years I have been breeding, I have never had a problem like this. You may say that it is not my problem, but I feel that it is. Where do I go from here? I have always thought that allergies were due to "bad breeding". I have always researched and done my best, matching pedigrees and always health tested. Where do I go from here?

I've got no advice, sorry, except to say that I am in the exact same position right now and it's really got me down as well. This was a large litter and everyone else is fine.

Thanks Goldmali, appreciate your comments., just do not understand......

If it's not in any of the ancestors and has not been in any of the puppies, then I would guess that this is the result of a random mutation.  As far as what to do - I don't think there is much more you can do, really, except stress that this individual should not be bred from.

As I said earlier, no repeat mating .

Already said that neither would be bred from again. Made that decision already Nekita.

This goes to the question 'for how long is any breeder responsible for the puppies they produce'?    Given that environment, and the food given, plays such a big part in how a dog will be after it's left the breeder.    This is the down-side of breeding and all I can suggest is you be supportive as best you can.   Have they made any demands on you - asked for financial assistance re vet bills?    And what's in your Sale Contract re ongoing liability?   It's good, maybe, that they have let you know, but how you respond is really up to you.

I'm in a reverse situation - one of the two buy-in hounds we now have, following the end of my bloodline, has had nothing but problems, almost from day one when he came to us at 4 months, with Giardia and despite being told me had been wormed, roundworm ova.   Having sorted that out, he then went lame at around 8 months, which eventually, after front to back x-rays, turned out to be premature closure of the growth plates.   Over time, with one thing after another plus the latest where he was again lame and further x-rays showed his spine was basically shot, and he has subluxation of the hips, both sides, he has cost me into the thousands.   To say nothing of continual worry.   At one point, early on, I invited the breeder, who I'd know for as long as I'd been in the breed, to contribute to the cost of the first x-rays..... they sent me an amount which was basically derisory - and I KNOW they could have afforded way more.   They didn't offer to take him back either although frankly there's no way I'd have let them take him back - when he came to us he had yellow stains on his back legs and tail.   But this has left me wondering what is going on out there, this being the first time in a lot of years, I'd bought in - the last being way back when I bought my foundation bitch and then another male to enhance my bloodlines.   Good job he's such a nice boy temperament-wise or he'd have been long-gone.

I hope, first of all, that you can sort out the allergies with them and can remain amicable.    How many of our dogs ARE suffering with allergies these days?   Is it all down to diet, or perhaps the chemicals we use on a daily basis to clean our homes?

> Where do I go from here?

Stop beating yourself up for starters.  The pup that you kept is alright, and nobody else has come back to you.  Not all allergies are due to "bad breeding."  It could be caused by the food they are using.  You can't be responsible for this - it's hardly as if you planned to breed pups with an allergy problem.   How do we know it's not something to do with the environment he's in?  You could go on and on.  But don't! 

Agree Jean - you're on a roll tonight!

My gorgeous 3 year old working lab has had an itchy ear for a while now.  Various treatments and he's on the mend now, i think, fingers crossed.  My (sensible, excellent and trusted) vet has warned me that it COULD be an allergy brewing. although so far we are taking things step by step, and I think not, but we shall see.

For what it's worth it has not even occurred to me to 'blame' the breeder.  My boy comes from thoroughly health tested parents/lines, assured breeder and generations of careful breeding.  IF it turns out he does have an allergy I will let the breeder know out of courtesy but I certainly won't think it's their fault.  Allergies are SO complex and tricky to get to the bottom of (which is why I hope he hasn't got one) but it might well be nothing whatsoever to do with your breeding strategy.

I hope you can stop blaming yourself or thinking you have done something wrong.  You've obviously been very conscientious with your breeding.  You have done your best for all the right reasons.  That's all you can do.

Lynne,

Since the parents are fine (obviously, otherwise you wouldn't have allowed the mating) and also all the siblings, this could therefore indicate an environmental cause for the allergies. There's nothing at all to suggest that the cause is genetic, hence there's nothing you could have done to preempt it.

Allergies are a weird thing, and it seems to me that they're definitely on the rise, in animals and humans. I was never allergic to anything at all until I hit about age thirty-three. Now I'm allergic to everything going; I have to take prescription anti-histamines that are as big as golf balls. It's rotten. I have no idea what has caused it, it doesn't run in my family at all. It IS exacerbated by stress.

Please don't be upset; even the most conscientious breeders don't produce bullet-proof puppies. Some things cannot be predetermined.

With allergies you have to consider food, especially grain and veggies, flea and worming treatments plus vaccinations (the carrier fluid is particularly important) and environment. 

Yes, allergies do run in families (hereditary) but that is only a small part of the story.

I have two different breeds with severe allergies both raw fed only puppy vacs and no chemicals.flea or wormers.neither dog has allergies in the lines . The specialist vet we are under does feel that some breeds  are more prone than others and apparently research is being done on this .westies being one in particular.  there are so many other factors especially given our toxic environment and the quality of a lot of food available especially commercial products that there is no way u should blame yourself . I can understand you concern and supporting them by caring and any knowledge u  may have in the subject to me would be all I would expect not blaming yourself

If they arnt I would.suggest a good dermatologist vet to help sort things is first step and they will hope find as I have finally that guidance and patience things can be controlled .Also the dog shouldn't have any further vaccines or chemical and a you said not to be bred from .having spent so long sorting mine I feel at least I can pass what I know now  on to others

No MamaBas, the owners are not making any demands at all and do not blame me for his problems, but what is so weird is that he is allergic to chicken and beef, foods that he was weaned on to and the allergies only started at 18 months old.  In my contract I do ask the new owners to take the new puppy to the vet and will refund in full if any defects are found.however I cannot guarantee future health or temperament . They only let me know out of courtesy and are happy with my breeding practices. It is me that is feeling bad about it.

Like others have said, parents and relatives and litter mates have no issues.

So from breeding aspect for you, don't repeat the mating, and perhaps avoid a very similar one.

Don't breed from the affected pup.

Look at it this way. What would you do if your parents had good hip scores, the offspring you kept good, but one of the others not so good, too high to be a good breeding prospect.

You'd sensibly not breed from the poor score, breed from the good, but perhaps rethink the combination of lines, and certainly not repeat or do a very similar mating.

With both your issue and hips your dealing with possible heredity aspects and environmental influenced none of which are under your control.

chicken and beef are the highest culprits for allergies in food. Its often the things we /they have most of that develop into allergies and can appear at anytime and also change during the life time. sometimes if you remove the allergens for a while you can carefully reintroduce.
One theory is vaccines have an effect on the immune system and with regard to chicken many vaccines are chicken protein one way or another this then goes on in some to cause a reaction
. I remember when we having school vaccines  we were always asked if we had allergies to chicken/ eggs this being the reason . we had one girl who was then not given the vaccines as a bad reaction would be expected. Think in thus case it was polio but could be wrong This wouldn't mean you have done wrong by weaning on to these proteins it would have happened at any point and could be any food item. Of course there is also environmental allergies to consider.
On the positive side once identified most can be at least helped if not fully controlled with a full management protocol. It will not be anything to do with you or your breeding practices. I don't know if I said this from now on they should really not give any further vaccines or chemical treatments as the likelihood of reactions will also be higher   if the dog has allergies  obviously that's for them to decide .

I'd say it could just be  one of those unfortunate conditions that has developed. Nothing you have done and I realise you feel awful about it..... my boy has again got itchy and sore spots again and back to vet. This time treating as a fungal?skin infection. Tablets stop itch and antibiotics plus Malsebi shampoo (tres expensive 23 pounds!) We have changed his diet/snacks been 7 weeks. We may consider allergies after next 2 weeks.., we haven't once thought to blame or seek financial help from breeder. It's just one of those things just like you developing hay fever/asthma suddenly.... Please be kind to yourself, you did a great job raising the litter ☺

Before you decide not to risk repeating this, or similar breeding don't risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater!!    For me, and believe me living with allergies is no fun, there are still far more important problems that need to be avoided.   Structure and temperament for one (two!).   And if this is the first puppy you've ever had with this problem I'd suggest this is far more likely to be a one off than anything that means you have to change directions.   And he's 2 and been away from you for almost that long too.   Just my opinion of course.

I really don't understand why all of a sudden chicken and beef should be causing all this.   There has to be more involved than that - if we can't feed our dogs either of what I'd see as the basics and not cereal-based food, what else is there other than fish, lamb and pork?   Both the latter being very fatty.   It's all very confusing.

The owner has sent me the allergy report. He is also allergic to lamb, pork, turkey, white fish , grain, milk. Their vet(same one as I use) has been great and they are sorting out treatment for him. Luckily, they carried on the insurance as it will be expensive. She did say that he would have had the treatment even if he wasn't insured as he is their best friend, so pleased about that. As I have now decided to retire (sort of) , not repeating the mating is not a problem. I may have another couple of litters but not from this mum or dad.

So exactly what is this poor dog supposed to eat?  I'll be very interested to read what the treating vet comes up with because it's hard to believe he's allergic to pretty much everything.    I have to say my husband did the grid test some years ago now (he has asthma) and pretty much had a reaction to the lot - some more so than others, including dogs and cats.   He has NEVER reacted to our hounds but he does/did, because not so much these days, react to stormy weather, beer and mushrooms - both of the latter he's had today, with no problems.    I can understand not feeding him pork (too fatty) or turkey (too rich) or milk (other than goats milk which as an adult, he doesn't need in any case) and also re grain but to add pork to beef, chicken and white fish?    That certainly limits what he can eat!!

Is his system just reacting to all these things right now because it's 'inflammed' for some other reason?   Immune system - vaccination/boosters?    What booster regime does his owner have him on?   It's not necessary these days, to booster for anything on an annual basis, other than for Leptospirosis (UK) which dips over a 12 month period and still needs to be done annually.   Otherwise it's every 3 years.   A regime mine have been on for some time now.

I expect what they'll find is that after a time of being on non-allergen foodstuffs, he'll be able to eat the less problematic ones on that list - often when a dog is reacting to something they will react to other things as well.

I imagine he'll need to be started on an exclusion diet even if they are going for immunotherapy, because of the number of triggers - probably something like salmon and sweet potato.  I do know of one dog who is genuinely allergic to a ton of stuff and her list is very similar - she can eat one variety of Barking Heads though which is based on salmon and trout, if I remember rightly.

I have advised her to stop the boosters, worming and flea treatment and hopefully will go with her to the vets on her next visit.

> don't know if I said this from now on they should really not give any further vaccines or chemical treatments

Now I don't routinely treat my dogs for worms or fleas.  But neither do I raw feed.  And all 21 dogs have booster jabs every year without fail.  Just to say that I've never had a reaction to the jabs.  Given the sheer number of dogs that I have (all living in the house) why in 45+ dog years, have I never had a dog with allergies?

The point of not vaccinating dog with allergies is because the system is already under stress and not considered healthy therefore vaccines would increase that stress and more likely to  cause a problem  data sheets so say not to vaccinate unless healthy which a dog with allergies is not. I wouldn't want to risk  a reoccurrence of.the  problems mine have  even if they didn't actually react to the vaccine itself

> The point of not vaccinating dog with allergies is because the system is already under stress

Yes, I fully realise that.  My question was - why, given the sheer number of dogs that I've owned, have I never had a dog with allergies?

Sorry Jean I misunderstood. No idea I have asked myself the opposite
why have I got two  ,? they have different allergies both food and environmental . Different breeds different ages. Unlike many where  changing to raw feeding has helped mine were raw fed from pups
  also my other dog a different breed again is fine and there is no difference in how she has been bought up.
It is a mystery but does seem to be in the increase  as it is with humans. Both dogs have different treatments after a few years of chasing what the problem was caused by

If they have only just got back to you, it makes me wonder if they are now doing something different??  Any pup we breed, we expect to be perfect but when dams can have 10 or more in a litter, its just not going to happen however hard we try.
As others have said, if its only 1 in the litter, you haven't done anything wrong.  Have the owners had him tested to see what he's allergic to?

List of allergies above Ells-Bells

Poor lad, not a lot he can eat is there?  Something must have triggered it if he was ok for the first 18 months

my last weimaraner was wheat sensetive -and if she managed to get hold of anything containing wheat then she also reacted badly to red meat/chicken/potato for a week or two after her bread encounter.  when she was not wheat inflamed she was fine with chicken etc .  we used to have to feed her white fish and rice for about a week after one of her thieving missions to calm down her belly;.  It may be the same for this dog and once the main trigger is figured he will be ok with the lesser irritants.

I have always researched and done my best, matching pedigrees and always health tested. Where do I go from here?

Well Lynneb, as everyone has already said, it really is nothing you could have percieved, nothing you could have stopped as you did your homework with the lines, you are a good reputable breeder, there is no legal or even moral come back on you as a breeder, and the puppy owners don't have an axe to grind.

However, I sense it is nothing to do with any of those issues, (not really) you're feeling guilty (I would too, couldn't help it) when trying to make perfection and something goes unintentionally wrong some of us find that hard to face.

Bless you, you are even hoping to go to the vet with them next time.

Soooo.....unfortunately, only thing to do to stop you feeling this way, is for you (if financially able) to offer perhaps half the sale price back as a gesture of how bad you feel as a breeder, (even though you don't need to) knowing they may need to forever treat him and be on the lifelong insurances, they may take the money as a good will gesture or not, but it will get rid of your own guilt if you can't do it any other way.

You shouldn't really feel this way, but some of us can't help it................here's hoping you can feel better about it one way or another.

Allergies do seem to be on the increase though in people and animals, something is going on?.............

I wonder if there is some connection between the similar rise in allergies in humans due to children being kept too clean and sterilised

Well, who knows Jodi something is changing............but going into any school, college or uni can't say the children look clean and steralised, infact whilst in town today I was watching a long line of college youngsters queuing up for lunches and thought some of them needed a good wash, no different to how they've always looked.

And let's be honest many breeders are far from clean and hygenic and they feed their pups the cheapest food going..........It's a mystery?