I have a 2 year old bitch who is currently having her second season, I've hoped to mate her up but having no luck at the moment. She is on day 14/15 and stopped bleeding yesterday. She has been standing perfectly for a good few days now and also flagging. I have taken her to a dog the last two days, he has been mounting her but no tie at all and it gets to the point then when he's too tired to try anymore. He is unproven and around 14 months old.
I was just wondering whether anyone may be able to give me any advise on why this may be happening?

It may well be that she has gone over.  Perhaps day 14 is too late for this bitch.  If the dog is "fed up" he could be sensing that he's wasting his time.  I've had bitches ovulate on day 4 and I have one bitch who mated on day 28 and the vet said that she definitely couldn't be pregnant.  Yeah, right, she whelped a litter of 7 pups no problem.

Did you have your bitch tested to know exactly when she was at the optimum point for her?

I have been trying her with the dog since last Saturday (when she started to flag) and he has only become interested in her the last two days when the bleeding has stopped and turning more straw like colour. They are both very keen but nothing seems to be happening. The dog wants to keep going but just isn't getting anywhere. I didn't get her tested no, regretting it now.

Well, "they say" that when the bleeding turns straw-like in color, that's the sign that the right time for mating has come.  I have experienced many times that the male will try and try and try and try - days long - and just when you have given up, it works.

And there are situations which need "help".  I don't know how to do it, but there are breeders who are very adept at holding the female "just so" and presenting her to the male in such a way that he can manage.  There is also the question of size.  If the one or the other is too high, then that might be a problem.

You don't need a tie for a pregnancy to occur, although it's better if a tie occurs.

It may well be still too early?? Every bitch is different as is every season.

Your chosen sire may well not be quite at the age where he is mature enough to do the right mating.

Why not wait until the next season, when both the dog will be more mature & the bitch will still be plenty young enough

In 45+ dog years, and many whelpings, I have never, ever seen straw coloured.  And I am not the only established breeder who says this.  I know what "the book" says, but my bitches have never read the book, so I'm afraid I don't take much notice of it.  I have one bitch who had 3 litters.  On every occasion she has continued to bleed during mating and right up until day 28.  And she got pregnant every time.

As far as flagging goes I'm afraid that is no indication that she is ready.  One of my girls flags from day three just because she's a trollop.  I do have a stud dog who is very experienced and he won't waste his energy if the bitch doesn't smell right..  I use him to tell me that it's time for me to jump in the car and race to my chosen sire. When you have a 4 hour drive ahead of you, you want to get it right.  Does your bitches breeder have an experienced  stud dog that will tell you?

I understand that if the boy you're using is a novice at the mating game he might not be getting the right angle.  I assume that the stud dog owner can help her boy in?  She should be experienced enough to help you.

I'd expect at only her second season she may be a bit immature to be bred from yet, as with most medium breeds the general consensus is to wait until they are two years of age before having a litter.  Mine are usually on at least their third if not 4th season by the that time.

It can take a couple of seasons for the hormones to settle and to get a pattern for when a bitch is likely to be ready.

They also need to be mentally mature enough for mating and rearing and she may be better left another season or two, and certainly the general advice is not to mate to maidens, as an inexperienced male may well be totally off as regards gauging when a bitch is ready.

The males are much better at this once experienced, as many bitches either play hard to get (and won't respect an inexperienced male enough to allow mating), or are complete sluts and want to stand long before an experienced stud will deign to mate them.

I have had both situations where the bitch was all over the dog like a rash and eh would refuse to mete her for several days.  Also had bitches unimpressed by a Novice male, but if proven shrug as if to say 'oh go on then'.  I have also had maiden bitches that played hard to get, but with an experienced stud or patience we got there once she had warmed to the idea.

Another reason for using a more experienced older dog on a young bitch and vice versa, is for genetic and health reasons it is good to have a longer generational gap.

By using an older dog on a young bitch you will have a better idea of the longevity, health and producing record of at least half the potential parentage of puppies, added to the health screening results (hip scoring DNA tests for Kidney disease and eye diseases in your breed, clinical eye test), gives you the best possible odds of a healthy litter.

Just to say though none of my bitches have ever had a litter when mated before day 14, and most have been mated days 14 - 18+, on particular bitch was never ready before day 18 - 22 for all three litters.

I don't blood test as I have always had stud ad bitch staying at same premises, and tried as long as it took until we had her mated and then  mated until she was no longer receptive.

Thank you all for your replies, this would be my first time with mating a bitch up so I am very much the novice, so a big learning curve for me too!
Esme is 2 years old in August, she had a silent season at 6 months, first full season at 12 months and then her second season now. My gut feeling is that she is not quite ready yet, but have been advised to use an experienced stud dog instead seems as she is a maiden bitch. I will keep trying with her until she is no longer receptive and if nothing happens then will wait until her next season and hopefully have better luck then.

If your bitch is under 2 years old and your dog you're using is just 14 months, how do you know either of them are worth breeding from yet?!  They are still puppies themselves and won't have proven themselves in any way. 

Why are you breeding this litter, with the hope of achieving what, in the puppies?

Using two unproven/maiden dogs, difficulties are really very common.

Although I think you may find she's gone over now, if this dog is unproven and wasn't getting anywhere, I'd have found an experience stud dog!!   Maiden bitch to maiden male - always bound to be difficult really.   Did the young dog penetrate her at all because as said, a tie isn't necessary much as breeders do prefer to see one.   One of my boys never achieved a tie, it was always a slip tie but of the few bitches he mated, he only missed to one, who came back on her next season to my other male, got a tie but she again missed.   She was taken on her next season to another outside stud dog, but didn't conceive to him either.  

I think you just have to hope, if there was penetration at all, that the job has been done.   If she's only 2 and on her second season, she has plenty of time yet.

All of mine went to a pale straw colour by around the time they were in standing heat.   And most just had less and less discharge to the end of the 21+ days.   However I did have one who, having been mated, went to a more blood-coloured discharge through her final week.  At the time, although I wasn't especially worried about her - she was otherwise fine - I did think she'd not have taken.   As it turned out, she had a totally uneventful pregnancy and then 9 really excellent puppies - so good we kept 3!!   They are all different.

I took her to an experienced stud dog today, he is 3 years old and has sired 7 litters so far and thankfully they had a successful tie! So will just have to wait and see what happens now.

Should a litter occur, you will need to have DNA to ascertain which father is the sire..it could well be both males, for when you register the litter

> Should a litter occur, you will need to have DNA to ascertain which father is the sire..it could well be both males, for when you register the litter

For sure - if the younger dog got anywhere near her (penetration) he could well have done the job.   Frankly I'd not have gone to another stud dog in the same season .... and as the owner of the second dog, had I known the bitch had been tried with another male, I'd probably not have allowed the mating that time.   

ps   The KC is, I understand it, allowing the registration of a litter from two sires to avoid the need to mate a bitch on two seasons, if the gene pool needed widening.   BUT again, the resulting litter would have to be DNA testd so the parentage (sire) of each puppy was known.   To my mind it's messy.

> Frankly I'd not have gone to another stud dog in the same season .... and as the owner of the second dog, had I known the bitch had been tried with another male, I'd probably not have allowed the mating that time.    <br />

I agree

If I read the OP right, the first dog got no where near and there was no penetration.  I think.

I'm not sure whether either the breeder or the original stud dog owner have any experience in breeding what so ever so hope the second stud owner was a bit more helpful. Also as not sure of the breed involved, am hoping it is a toy breed or small breed, as far too son to be breeding anything larger.

Would definitely be recommending they read The Book of the Bitch now...