Hi, my girl is on day 66; 64 and 62 from her three matings - no prog test (wish I had now!). Mucus plug went on Monday, she is sleepy and digging and her temp has yo yoed - gone down last three times and is now 37.3. Can you experienced breeders tell me at what point should I worry and seek vet advice. The stud owner says not to worry - she is happy enough and in no pain, puppies are visibly moving. He says she will come when ready but I can't help being anxious. Positive advice gratefully accepted. Thanks

I'd want the vet to see her now and get her is for a possible C section tomorrow. 

It is rare for a bitch to mate earlier than the LH surge (most won't mate until ovulation or later when the eggs are fertilisable and stop standing by the third day after that) and most bitches will whelp +/- 63 days from ovulation (2 days after LH surge). 

So I certainly would not be happy going further than 66 days from first mating.  That is the latest any fo miebn have whelped and I knew darn well they were being strumpets standing early, compared to previous litters.

Thanks folks!! Maybe a bit of paranoia on my part but this site appears a bit selective about who gets replied to - some gets lots, others hardly any - no offence meant

Thanks Brainless will ring vet now

You only need one reply, especially if its someone as experienced as Brainless.

Good Luck.

> some gets lots, others hardly any

Often it will depend if the title grabs the readers interest or they feel they have advice they can offer on the subject matter. 

At other times (like a nice sunny day) everyone is out with their dogs or at weekends busy at shows/trails etc

FWIW I never let mine go more than 2 days over from the first mating.  Rightly or wrongly it worked for mine.   I always felt that the longer they linger (and often small litters just 'sit') the bigger they get meaning the more liklihood of a C.Section being needed.    It could be said that the apple doesn't fall until it's ripe, but that's what worked for my hounds. 

I always worry about a whelping

Thanks Brainless will ring vet now

What did the vet say?

The vet says so long as she is not in distress or straining that she should be ok and to take her down tomorrow for a scan if nothing has happened.  Her temperature has steadily dropped all week, it was 37.3 this morning and is now 37, from my reading this seems to be indication that she will whelp within 24 hours: she is restless and off her food and has dug a few craters in the garden. Don't want unnecessary operation but don't want to risk her or the pups either - this is so hard

37° is pretty low.  Maybe it will drop a little more.  Anything under 37°, as long as it stays there, is for me the drop.  Do you see any panting or shivering?  If you do a scan tomorrow morning, then have the vet check the heart beats of the pups.

If any of the obvious signs of 1st stage labor are evident, I would try to avoid lugging her to the vet yet once again, as that can be very disturbing to the process of birth which is already in progress.  If she is obviously in 1st stage labor, then you must wait for the onset of the contractions.  Here is where problems sometimes arise, as one is unsure how long one dare wait (see other thread about this).

I always worry about a whelping

You and me both! 

No shivering or obvious contractions yet. She's just laid in her bed looking sorry for herself - lots of fluttering in her tummy - think it will be a long night !

I agree with Nimue.  I have zero experience, but I'd be worried that going to the vet would make her hold on and disrupt things and if anything seems to be happening now, then hang on and see if it progresses... If she conceived on her last mating (62 days?), then she might not be over yet.... ?

That's what I was thinking Rabid, that she could have caught from the last mating and even be due a couple of days after that if eggs not fully ovulated. No signs yet but it's nearly 4 am and she is digging and restless.

Rabid and Thornton, let me tell you the story of my female Lulu, who had puppies on November 21st, 2015.  On November 19th, for the first and (so far) only time in my life, I got up in the morning, fainted dead away and fell very badly (unconscious), cutting my forehead open and breaking (slightly) a vertebra in my neck in the process.  Not to mention the concussion.  So, when I came to on the floor, lying in my own blood, I called the ambulance, and while I waited for it to arrive, I managed to get all the dogs downstairs and to call my best friend (who lives a couple of hours away) to let her know what was happening. (I live on my own.)  She put our "emergency plan" into effect immediately, alerting the two friends who would jump in for the dogs.  Then the ambulance arrived, and I fainted again. I regained consciousness, and the marvelous paramedics carted me off to the hospital, where I had to stay for (thank God "only") two nights.  (After extensive testing in the hospital and afterwards, it turns out that everything looks just fine, and it was probably "just one of those things.")  Anyhow...
At the time, I had a litter (Felicia) in the big box, just 3 weeks old, and Lulu was due to give birth momentarily!  The birthing process had not yet started, but I knew it could go off at any minute.  So naturally, I was really only concerned about Lulu!  My friend nearby (who is a breeder herself) came right away (another friend moving in to stay here permanently until my return), and she took Lulu to our veterinary clinic (10 minutes away), to whom we both go and both trust.  So there Lulu stayed, while I called them several times from the hospital to ask about the temperature (had it fallen?  They didn't think so...vets are not the best when it comes to normal births), but they kept track of Lulu, while I agonised about her lying in my hospital bed.
Anyhow, I was able to be released after two nights, and we went directly to the clinic to get Lulu.  The vet had told me on the phone that the temperature was around 38'5°, and I said "But how can that be, that is normal!  It was 37'5° when I went to the hospital!"
So we came home, and I and my friend sat down in the livingroom, Lulu on my lap.  Within 5 minutes she started to push!  I couldn't believe it!  And within two hours she had her three babies, all just fine and dandy.
So what I think happened was that Lulu went through stage 1 of the birth without the vets realising it, then her temperature went back up to normal, but instead of proceeding to stage 2, she deliberately held back the actual birth.  Of course, she couldn't know when I would reutrn, so I suppose she would have had to give in sooner or later and birth the puppies, but the way it turned out, it was as if she had held them in, and then when we got home she said "OK guys, out you come!"
I am only telling you this to show how births can take so many twists and turns and be so amazing!

Thanks Nimue lovely story with happy ending. Peaceful night here mostly with digging on and off, my girl is now laid looking spaced out on my bed but no visible panting or contractions although her tummy feels hard. She keeps just standing still and looking down at nothing in particular - very strange - is this the first stage. Vets open in an hour so will get her down there if nothing happening but don't want her to get stressed - still confused about only leaving for 2 days from first mating - what if she did just stand then although not ready and caught on 2nd or third?

I do not test for progesterone either.  But what will often be informative is the scan at around 30 days into the pregnancy.  You can see the degree of develpment of the fetuses.  I always calculate the birth from the date of the first mating (following the advice of most books).  If this is day 67 or so for your female, I would definitely have her checked over.  It would seem that the birth is not imminent, so probably the disturbance would not be of great consequence.  Just think of how Lulu must have been "disturbed"!

> my girl is now laid looking spaced out on my bed

This is starting to get the alarm bells ringing, are you confident you can spot the signs of inertia? It could just be the calm before the storm but please be on your guard.

I'm sorry but I'm inclined to agree with claire_41. If she is looking spaced out and staring at nothing in particular inertia comes to mind. Please have her checked out and be insistent at the vet's as I'm not sure how experienced they are with the symptoms and breeding in general. Good luck :)

I agree with claire_41 and gsdowner.  Please let us know what the vet said.  I do hope you have gone to him or her this morning.  I would want to have the heart rate of EACH puppy checked, and I would want to ask whether it might be possible, if everything is completely open and ready for the birth, to give some oxytocin.  One has to be very careful here, as giving it too soon can cause a rupture.  So the important thing is to ASK.  Hopefully, it might be possible to avoid a C-section this way....

Puppy number one born healthy at 9.15

Oh good luck Thornton!!! Fingers crossed for you and your girl!!

How long between pups, it's been 75 mins ?

Super!!!!  This is exciting!  So happy for you!  (I almost said "for us all"!    )

Thanks everyone  - now panicking cos it's been 1 hour 45 mins since first - vet says can be up to 7 hours??? But I've read 2 hours and seek advice - what do you all think?

Is she having contractions?  Or just sleeping?

She's just sleepy and content baby is feeding others say 2 hours too which it is now

I think if it were my dog, I would still wait.  Your girl seems to have her own rhythm.  Is she a small breed or a large one?

I would wait. The people and books I most trust say 3hrs between pups.

Some bitches are slow whelpers. One of mine took 24 hrs to deliver all pups for both her litters. Okay both litters had 13 pups, but some arrived within minutes of each other, some took several hours. The first time I took her to Vets Now and although they gave her oxytocin and calcium, they sad she's just a slow whelper. The second time therefore I waited.

If you have surgical gloves and lubricant you can gently ease your finger in to see if you can feel a puppy. Often that action alone will stimulate more contractions.

She's a large terrier

Hi have you gently felt her stomach - does she feel empty or can you feel a hard shape, I can normally feel if there is still a puppy in there. One of our bitches had a singleton then went to sleep we waited and waited (vet on speed dial who kept telling us not to worry!) I eventually thought to check her tummy (after a nail-biting 3 hours!), it was only our second litter, and she felt empty, took her to the vets and they confirmed she had finished. she also was around 67 days (small breed but on the larger size for the particular breed).

Our latest bitch took 2 and a half hours off between the first two and the last two which was very nerve racking and just as we were really worrying she roused herself went into good hard pushing and off she went again.

I hope things are going well

good luck

Do you know how many pups to expect???

She's had 2 now 3 hours apart - one to go according to scans

The tragedy of this is that someone expects expert advice and got some!!!(sarcasm) from people who have never bred. When I first bred many years ago I had an experienced breeder who was beside me 100% of the way, all the way!! I would be worried about a novice breeder having no-one to turn to, even if the Sire's owner is on hand, there is no mention of experience of any sort and why would you ask on a public forum and potentially be given duff advice?

From what I can see, the advice given is by experienced breeders, so really don't understand your post, ignoredbymany.

That's great news Thornton, any updates on the last one??  Is she resting or pushing?

So you see?  Now you have gained a new experience to put under your belt!  Puppies CAN be born 3 hours apart!  Every birth brings something new.  Congrats!  Keep us posted on how it progresses!

Any updates, it's been a while, is the 3rd puppy out?

Rabid, have you just moved to Jersey???

Yes third born in quick succession after second - all lovely healthy pups - any tips on getting them to stay latched on appreciated! Yes Ignored by many, I did have a mentor at the end of the phone and 5 mins away; I also had an experienced friend here; but it's invaluable imo to get others opinions - especially in the middle of the night. I thank all the experienced breeders on here from the bottom of my heart - sometimes we all need that extra support. One day I may be able to be as smug as Ignored by Many but I hope not. Rant over X

Congrats :)

No, not just moved - why?!

Because your flag has changed!  Or better said, it seems to keep changing, one time Jersey, then the UK, then Guernsey...

any tips on getting them to stay latched on appreciated!

They will learn that without your help.  They have to get to know each other now, Mum and the pups.  Give Mum a little seclusion, and don't interfere too much.  They will find their way!  So glad to hear it all went well!

Congratulations.

This board is a wealth of information with some very experienced breeders.

Admittedly it did get a bit silly with some very odd and pointless posts but so glad to see it back at its best.

Ah, it must be something to do with our internet - it happens with mobile phones sometimes here as well, they keep connecting to different networks!  It must happen on the borders in mainland Europe as well?

Relived she got on with it, this is such a tricky thing to judge, as I said would not have gone past Friday.

Some bitches are quick others slow, times between healthy pups can be short or long, and all still well, or long intervals result in dead pups.  Sadly very few Vets have anything to do with breeding other than performing a C section, or administering Oxytocin when a whelping stalls.  Few have ever attended a normal whelping..