About a year ago I posted on here asking for advice. To cut a long story short our year old (at the time) Wire Fox Terrier out of the blue suddenly ferociously attached my very passive sheltie.  This situation got worse and on the advice of the vet we had the WFT spayed.  This of course did not solve the situation, we just had to be vigilant and keep them apart.  It has made life far from relaxing and the sheltie has become nervy and wary of the WFT. She did end up one time at the vets with a wound as a result.  The WFT is very feisty and difficult but also very affectionate and funny and of course I am very fond of her.  However after the last attack we decided for everyone's sanity (including the sheltie) we would rehome her,  something I have never ever done and I have had dogs for 40 years.  Sophie the WFT gets on well my other two dogs, one who is an ancient JRT and  my Greek rescue girl, no probs at all.  The Greek gal just has to give her the The Look.So I approached the WFT Breed Rehoming Association and within a very short time new owners have been found and vetted and we are taking Sophie to the lady who runs the organisation on Monday and she will be collected by the new  owners later in the day.  However I am getting terrible cold feet and the thought of packing up all her stuff is awful.  I suppose it all for the best but I feel very upset over at the thought of losing her.I just hope I am doing the right thing.

Living with dogs which don't get on is such an uncomfortable situation for the dogs and for you. I would say that you are doing the responsible thing.

My only query would be to check that you have contacted Sophie's breeder ...

How much stress is this causing the dogs living together even if they aren't together and have to be kept separate? You have tp forget how this makes you feel and look as an outsider and say how is keeping them all in the home a benefit to their wellbeing if they all don't get along. If you had kennels it probably wouldn't be an issue but these days most people have their dogs inside their home and dogs who fight and don't get on is very stressful for them and us of course. Think about how it changes or has changed any of them due to this, peace and harmony need to be key for their wellbeing first and foremost and then yours but they cant have you stressed and upset either.
Personally if the dogs cant be put together and its leading to an upset homelife by rehoming one is this likely to remove all concerns and issues? Will the whole pack of dogs relax?

I had father and son. Father had lived quite happily with another dog of his age, he just didn't get on with his son who was 3 years younger than him, we had to break up fights everyday and they spent their whole time growling at each other. I put out feelers within my breed and a home became available where son would be an only dog. The only day we could take him that suited both parties was on Boxing Day 3 years ago. It was very hard, but the little git didn't even make a whimper as we left him... Ari has a wonderful life, he lives in the country, goes to work with his new owner and is spoilt rotten. For him it was the best decision I could have made. It was very hard to leave him but my other dogs immediately benefited as they weren't living in a war zone. I'm sure your girl will be fine, will you be regularly updated on how she is, as that helped with me knowing how happy Ari was.

Yes Sue,  I feel there will be a collective sigh of relief from the other three dogs when I go ahead with the rehoming.  The others are 8 year old sheltie, whom I have had from a puppy, old male JRT cross - rescued him 11 years ago,  never been aggressive, not your typical Jackie, and Hannah my Greek (houndy)girl whom I rescued from Crete 8 years ago,  She is aloof and quiet but never been aggressive.  I am sure they will all return to their comfortable old life.  Actually, sadly, the WFT got on very well with the old boy JRT and they often shared a bed.

I have always prided myself on being able to sort out most dogs, having been a licensed home dog boarder up until a couple of years ago.  I have always been someone ready  to take in the odd needy dog and have never given a thought to the "fighting" bitch issue.  Actually I am puzzled because the sheltie has the sweetest nature and I had never heard her growl before the attacks - she is a registered PAT dog.  Why Sophie picked on her goodness knows.

Re the breeder - yes I did inform her but she is pretty old and not in the best of health, so no joy there.  Funnily enough the co-ordinator of the WFT Rehoming Asociation is a breeder and one of her stud dogs is Sophie's sire.

In my heart of hearts I know I am doing the right thing.  The stressful situation will disappear  hopefully and the doorbell can be rung without rushing to get the sheltie out of the way of the WFT. 

It is just very hard to let go - and admit that on this occasion I have failed.

you havnt failed actually you will have succeeded in doing the best for your dogs even if it doesn't feel like that

This is absolutely not a failure.  Some dogs simply can't live together - you are doing the best thing for all concerned.  It's not an easy thing, in any way, but it is the right thing and that is the very opposite of failure.

You may feel like that but you've not failed, some bitches and dogs just don't get on. Bitches when they fight that's it, most of us don't have the luxury of kennels tp keep apart as they live in our homes.
You are doing what is right for them to improve their lives, it's not healthy for dogs to live in the same home who fight, so actually you are doing the right thing for them no matter how hard and heartbreaking it is for us. I've been there and even now when I think about it, which I try not to ot brings tears to my eyes but o know I did right by the dogs.
Dogs pick up on our stress too and its not a conducive to state for anyone to live in.
You never know of you want the people who tale her on might be happy tp keep in contact, I was lucky as left my details on the essay I wrote about the dog and they did, once or twice a year with photos. I even saw him at a breed fun event which was very upsetting in one sense but to tp see how happy and loved he was made it easier.

You are not a failure, please please don't think like that, you are doing the best by the dogs.

I know you've had trouble with Sophie from the start, I shall miss her at class where she can be a good girl, but of course you have to be able to live with your dogs. You know I've struggled with Lottie too, but at least it's just us that have trouble with her naughtiness, she isn't bad with the other dogs. Don't think of it as having failed, you have worked really hard on her, and you have to think of your other dogs health and welfare. x

My only query here would be why isn't the breeder having her back?

think the op said the breeder is now elderly and  in poor health so cant  have her back

.

I know how you must feel, but believe me, if she's causing disruption in your family (which means your other dog) then this is going to be the best option.   I'm glad she's spayed because at least you don't have to worry about her being bred from!    Although of course you must keep in touch with her new owners, don't visit, for at least a month.   We had to home a puppy we'd kept from an all-male litter.  All was fine until he reached around 18 months at which point he started challenging his uncle and try as I did, he wouldn't back off and settle down.   He hadn't been used at stud either - his uncle had but didn't start what was going on.   Finally, before there was a serious fight and to restore calm in my small pack, I found him a super home with two bitch Bassets.   I did retain co-ownership (contract) but once I knew all was as I'd hoped, lifted that and had him transferred into her sole ownership.    We went to see him, some months later - he greeted us but almost immediately turned back to what he'd been doing.   I HATED seeing him go off, but I knew I was doing the best thing.

Be strong - I'm sure you are too.

ps   The only thing I would comment on is her not going from you to her new home.   But if WFT Rescue do it this way, I guess you have no  alternative.   It's just going from you, to somebody else and then on to a new home, might be unnecessary stress, for her.   I'd have thought that if Breed Rescue had vetted the new home, that would be enough?

I know how hard it is to live with dogs that do not get on. We  lived for years with dogs that had' issues' with one or other in the pack. The worst offenders were definitely girls.
Kezzie ( who died last year aged 15) and Zigi ( coming up 14) loathed each other from around the age of 3. We had some really nasty scraps and they had to be kept completely separate , manageable because we had the space. As they grew older and were spayed , a different times, they became really good friends and would cuddle up together . However, Zigi soon found a new worst enemy in Clemmie ( now 9) and again we had the situation of separate lives/living arrangements. Clemmie  was spayed a couple of years ago and I had begun to notice a definite rapprochement of late. So much so that they both jumped into my car together on Sunday and went on their first walk together since ...I don't remember. 
I know I have been lucky. Bitches seem to be the worst in  bearing grudges and fighting to the death.

Hi

I have just been asked to complete a form about Sophie for the WFT Welfare Rehoming Org.  It does state that in doing so I am "reliquishing all rights" to the dog and that I will not be allowed to know the names of the new owners.  I shan't be happy though unless I can see photos etc at least initially.  I guess I have to abide by their rules and it would be nice if I could meet the new owners but I suppose they have their reasons. (Could be that some people could pester new owners and even want the dog back?).  I do know that she is not being rehomed locally.  I will also need to know what happens is she doesn't settle.

I shall be glad when it is over and done with as it is  hanging over me like the sword of Damocles.  I do actually think that as she is such an excitable little bag of energy  she may well go off without a backward glance at us.

It broke my heart but a few years ago I had to rehome by beautiful Goldie. He just did not get on with a boxer that was living at the same address. He became very nervous and trying to keep them apart was a horrible time. I contacted the Goldie rescue and they arranged for a new owner to actually collect him from me. I was very tearful but his new owner was a lady vicar and I knew he would have a better life at the vicarage, so I knew I was doing the right thing for him ( not me) I too felt as though I had failed, but  I knew it was for the best.
The new owner emailed me pictures for the first year so I knew he was well, happy and healthy.

Even if you have to hand him over instead of having him collected, at least you know that he is not going to spend time in kennels. Going home to home is much better than spending time in a rescue centre. You could always give your email to the rehoming centre and see if they could pass it on to the new owner so that they could maybe update you occasionally for the first few months. Asking this just proves how much you loved him and shows that you are not just getting rid of him without a thought.
If they will not do this, just remember that they will thoroughly check his new home so in your heart you know he will be well cared for.

You have done the right thing.

The name thing could simply be data protection.  That doesn't necessarily mean they won't tell you anything at all - ask them.  Even if it's just that she's found a good home - my local rescue is doing that for an old client's dog who we took in on Thursday.  Because I've been heavily involved with her, and because I'm fostering her brother under them, they're happy to let me know when she's gone even though she wasn't my dog.  But I won't get more detail than that and it's understandable - they do have to protect the new owners and as I know from my foster, the old ones can be a bit problematic sometimes wanting to change their minds and pestering the new owners for updates.

You have made the most responsible decision going to the WFT association. A hard one, but a right one xx

Not being told where your dog has gone is to protect the new owners.   If you home her yourself, vetting the new home etc. then you should be able to keep in touch, to make sure the rehoming is working.   Like I did with my lad.   People often do change their minds and to be able to approach the new owners isn't always a good idea.     I hope this all goes smoothly but again personally I'd prefer the dog to go from old home, to new home - if it's being organised by a Rescue organisation, clearly this can't happen, to protect the new owners.

JanB - from my experience with spaying, removing the female hormones CAN make a bitch more likely to be aggressive rather than the opposite.  Certainly was the case with one of mine especially - she was a singleton puppy we kept but after she started having a season every 5 months, and really wasn't as good as I'd hoped (show and breeding) I had her spayed.   Her inclination to be stroppy (spoilt?) increased but thankfully everybody respected her as the leader, so we never had any full on fighting - just her warnings!!    With my other bitches, thankfully they were really no different at all after being spayed on retirement.

There is no doubt that males fight to mate but bitches to survive however so once they do fight, there can be no way back - unlike with the boys.

Bless you snowflake, i feel your pain, we was in the exact same situation with our Bully a couple of years ago, it totally broke my heart  to rehome him and took a year of me fostering my own dog as i didn't want him put in kennels while a rehoming center helped find him a new forever home, i went though the center as i really wanted any new owners he has to be vetted properly and they did all that alot better than i could have ever done,

our reasons for rehoming where also similar to yours my Bully was totally awful to my gentle rottweiler who is very well behaved his a grand old gent and you could see that my bully would intimidate him so badly , give them both a bone each and even if bully was in the garden and rottie in the house my rottie would not touch his bone, it was sad to watch,

they also had a couple of fights as he would walk past my rottie and for no reason bite him in the face it was really horrible , one fight where we was woken up in the middle of the night to them fighting downstairs and we rushed out of bed down the stairs and my partner fell and broke his arm in the process while trying to separate them , it got to the point where every time i heard a growl my heart would sink it really had me living on my nerves, it was an awful time,

i then used a crate for a while but again not the answer even tho bully liked it as his space and bed area to a point but when we went out he had to be crated all of this just led to him being miserable and developing a skin condition which i put down to stress,

i finally went to this rehoming center for help and a year later they found the most wonderful couple i could ever have asked for they have had bullies before so experienced with the breed and they where a perfect match for my boy, he has now been with them 2 years and i wont say i don't miss him still cos i do as he was my baby my world but so then so is my rottie and from the first week bully left my rottie actually had his first bone in years and ate it, the whole dynamics of the house changed my rottie was at ease you could really see it, he freely walked around unlike before where he would stay laying in one spot not moving because bully was walking about, honestly my only regret was that i didn't do it sooner i left the whole situation to carry on while i tried everything i could to make things better  in hope i could keep all my babies with me ,

my Bully now is in amazing shape and doing excellent in his new home and we are all at ease,  i know i done the right thing by him and by us all really, the situation just could and should not have gone on as it did for as long,

Thanks to all of you who responded to my post.

However I am hanging my head in shame.

We were going to begin to pack up all of Sophie's stuff tomorrow, Sunday, ready for her departure on Monday.  I have felt bad about this rehoming as it is not as if we don't love Sophie. indeed we adore her. Just the aggression towards our sheltie has been awful.

Early this morning though  my  husband said - he couldn't go through with it (I know he adores Sophie and she adores him).  So end of conversation as I also couldn't  really see myself rehoming her either.  Oh dear!

We are going to soldier along as best we can and do the best we can.  The thought at the end of the day of someone else trying to sort out my tricky Sophie is too much for us to contemplate

Thanks to all of you foryour advice and I expect you will feel I am foolish but the thought of my little girl going off in her cage to probably quite nice people(but not us) was too much to bear.

No hope for us is there?

Snowflake

You are not foolish at all. Just caring and loving.  I'm never  one for mindless optimism. Life has well and truly knocked that out of me but... you never know. Time may eventually alleviate the situation, as it did with my girls . Meanwhile, you'll just have to ensure that they lead completely separate lives.

My two boys had a nasty scuffle yesterday morning -at 5 am in our bedroom  woud you believe it. All due to two of the girls being in season  -locked elsewhere of course. Normally they lived peaceably together. Flinti is nearly 11 and Paddy 4 and this was a first.  I took them to work with me and they were fine but I'm watching  them all the time for that 'look'

Love
Jan

Facebook Replies:

Sean Carr says:  Most definitely. We lived with a bearded collie that made our life a misery. We tried the speying like you a spent a further £650 on behaviourist. We backed out of rejoming on our first attempt but had to rehome her in the end for all of our sake. Instantly the home was calm, something it hadnt been for the three years she was with us.Rehoming is a hard decision but for the best of all.

Stephanie Presdee says: agree. Go ahead.

Leonie Macdonald says: If you feel safer doing so, do so.however I would consider having the WFT checked thoroughly by another vet as sudden behavioural changes are very frequently due to medical or pain related problems. I also must be honest and tell you that most vets have no idea about behaviour and that advising to get her spayed to change the behaviour is futile, and maybe even aggravating. What is done is done, but some brilliant organisations to go to in the future are IMDT,APDT, and ASAB and APBC

Aww I can't say I'm entirely surprised as I know how much you both love her, the naughty girl! What I would suggest is that you organise your house so that they can live separately, so there is no danger of Sophie attacking Isla again. Back when we lived in north London, Henry & George had a big falling out and we could never relax if they were out together. We put a stair gate across the doorway to the utility room / dining room area, so that whichever dog was in there could still see us and feel included, but basically any time that we weren't just quietly settled on the sofa with them, one of them at a time had to stay in there, and we swapped regularly. Yes it was a bit of a nuisance, but like you we couldn't face rehoming either of them. It's perfectly manageable with small dogs and an adult household. If the two of them are never free to be wandering around together, you won't have to worry that an attack will happen. x

Facebook Reply:

Maj Maj Evill says: You should definitely go ahead, both dogs will be less stressed as will you. Dogs are amazingly adaptable and the breed rescue will find the perfect home.

You should think of the dogs, what they would want (to leave in a peaceful environment) and let her go. It's not about what YOU want, it's what's best for the dogs.

Sorry, but loving your dogs is not the same as doing what is best for them. Living in a tense atmosphere is not good for the dogs so unfortunately sometimes you have to do what is right for the dog, not for you.
If,  just once they get together and one causes massive injuries to the other ( or worse) then it will be too late to wish you had rehomed your dog.
I apologise if I sound mean but I adored my Goldie, but did what was best for him, so that he could have a good life without tension. My love for him did not come into it.

Just as sometimes we have to choose to have a pet PTS, our love for them wants to keep them going for a bit longer but if it is best for them for us to let them go - then so be it. Their needs must always come before our needs.