If a dog has NICE DEEP EYE SOCKETS (adequately deep) then the dogs eyes will NOT be protruding much therefore, the dog will have ALMOND SHAPED EYES.

If a dog has SHALLOW EYE SOCKETS (eyes protruding halfway out) then the dog will have ROUND SHAPED EYES.

In light of the above do you think that ALL BREEDS should have ALMOND SHAPED EYES in their 'BREED STANDARD' ...?

Just interested in people's thoughts/opinions regarding the above.

It's not as simple as that the shape of the socket, and thickness and shape of the lids  will affect eye shape, my breed has neither round or almond shaped eyes but oval.

Read a few breed standards for dogs with unexaggerated facial features and eye shape will vary.

OVAL is fairly good in my opinion and not too far away from ALMOND in shape.

All dogs 'Should' have CLOSE FITTING EYE LIDS regardless of eye lid thickness therefore, if a dogs eyes are sticking out (protruding) 'Half Way Out' then the eyes will appear ROUND in shape (this is a fact) this will mean that the dog has SHALLOW EYE SOCKETS.

Also, have you seen any dogs in your breed with ALMOND SHAPED EYES ...?

I cannot understand how any dog can have ROUND SHAPED EYES and have CLOSE FITTING EYE LIDS without the eyes sticking out too far (half way out) that's why I believe ROUND should be replaced with ALMOND (to keep the eye sockets adequately deep). Cheers.

Almond can tend to slitty deep set eyes which predisposes to entropion.

I think skull shape and stop makes a difference.

ALMOND SHAPED EYES and CLOSE FITTING EYELIDS I believe is IDEAL and very different from the SLITTY SHAPED EYES that you mention.

Interested in your views regarding skull shape & stop and how it affects the dogs eye shape ...?  Cheers

Whichever way you look at it ALL dogs need ADEQUATELY DEEP EYE SOCKETS and I cannot see how this is possible with ROUND EYE SHAPES that have CLOSE FITTING EYELIDS ...?

Just my opinion. Cheers.

Well you can get round eyes in my breed without them being protruding, and have also seen almond shaped eyes that are too deep, as with most things and as is required for my breed moderation seems best and with ours it's oval shaped eye.

The kind of round eyes that you suggest are a problem seem to be linked with skull shape (short muzzle, deep stop and miniaturisation)

Breed standard description for eye shape for my breed (Norwegian Elkhound), Eyes - Not Prominent, slightly Oval, Medium size.....

I think the description of 'not prominent' and 'Medium size' are more relevant than shape for health.

Shape alters expression, more than anything.

Humans all have the same shape eyeballs, the appearance varies with race, so it's skull, eyelid shape that that determine the appearance.

As most people, even those not in my main breed will be aware after the shock d/q of the BOB Crufts a few years back, eyes have been the cause of huge debate (and yes, d/q) within the breed of late.   To the point that along with other features not wanted in the breed, the Standard has been adjusted to try to avoid all the exaggeration that had crept into the breed.   This is how the Standard, Eyes, now reads -

"Lozenge-shaped neither prominent nor deep-set, dark but may shade to mid-brown in light coloured hounds. Expression calm and serious. Light or yellow eye highly undesirable."  

So for us, we use the word Lozenge.   Our problem is with ectropion - too much haw showing and the previous sentence "Red of lower lid appears though not excessively" has been removed.   Whether removing this has worked, I don't know but we are not seeing the number of d/qs we had been seeing.

If we had hounds with 'round' eyes, this often meant they protruded, giving an alien expression for the breed.   And quite often those hounds with round eyes, tended to also have light(er) eyes.

If we had hounds with 'round' eyes, this often meant they protruded,

I agree ROUND SHAPED EYES will mean PROTRUDING EYES.

Well you can get round eyes in my breed without them being protruding, and have also seen almond shaped eyes that are too deep,

Brainless (your user name)
You cannot have ALMOND SHAPED EYES coupled with CLOSE FITTING EYELIDS that are too deep that's impossible.

Regarding the ROUND SHAPED EYES that you mention you have seen in your breed with eyes that don't protrude ? that's because they don't (do not) have CLOSE FITTING EYELIDS.

Remember ALL DOGS should have CLOSE FITTING EYELIDS for health reasons. Cheers.

Shape alters expression, more than anything.

Expression is of little importance to a dog, having adequately deep EYE SOCKETS with CLOSE FITTING EYE RIMS is what counts (what the dog needs).

Must you keep SHOUTING at us?

I was using caps only to highlight, but fair enough I guess, I take your point. Cheers.

Its the shape of the socket that gives too small slanty eyes or too round (not talking toy breed globular), never seen an elkhound with loose eyelids but have seen eyes too round, and too deep set and narrow.

> Expression is of little importance to a dog,

In terms of vision, true.  But expression features hugely in the 'typical' Basset, and I'd suggest in other breeds too.

In terms of vision, true.  But expression features hugely in the 'typical' Basset, and I'd suggest in other breeds too.

Regardless of any given breed, the 'Eye Shape' that is best for that breed/dogs 'Health' should always be the priority. Don't you agree ...?

> Regardless of any given breed, the 'Eye Shape' that is best for that breed/dogs 'Health' should always be the priority. Don't you agree ...?

and there are many subtle differences in perfectly healthy eye conformation caused by the , for want of a better term, 'framing', (skull shape, shape of brows, cheeks and amount of flesh, and the thickness of the eyelids) .and it is this that gives the appearance of the eye shape and expression, as I doubt the actual shape of the healthy eye varies much.

Unfortunately we can't share pictures, but I bet if you took a dozen breeds who one can agree are unexaggerated in head/eye, the expression and perception of the shape of the eyes will all be different giving the expression typical for that breed.

I saw one of my breed posted by an owner that ideally exaggerated the rounder eye, that spoils expression in my breed, but the lids were nice and tight, and the eye was not protruding.

I am sure those of us who own breeds with average oval eye shape can find examples that are too round or two narrow/almond.

Its the shape of the socket that gives too small slanty eyes or too round (not talking toy breed globular), never seen an elkhound with loose eyelids but have seen eyes too round, and too deep set and narrow.

If the dogs eyes are 'Round Shaped' then the dogs eyes will have to protrude to cause this shape otherwise the dogs eye rims will not be close fitting.

I agree a dogs 'Eye Sockets' have to be correct for the dogs eyes, too deep and you have a very 'Slanty Eye Shape' too shallow and you have bulging (protruding) round shaped eyes. Adequately deep (correct) and you have 'Almond Shaped Eyes' or a more 'Oval Shape' as in your breed.

Its the dogs eyes being the correct depth in the 'Eye Sockets' that dictate the 'Correct Eye Shape' and with the much desired 'Close Fitting Eyelids' Hence, why dogs having the best eye shape is so important. Cheers.

Another reason 'Almond Shaped Eyes' are far superior to 'Round Shaped Eyes' is because 'Almond Shape' keeps the eyes much cleaner also.

> <br />Regardless of any given breed, the 'Eye Shape' that is best for that breed/dogs 'Health' should always be the priority. Don't you agree .

Of course - who would suggest otherwise BUT as far as shape of the eye socket (not the eyeball!) it should be possible to have both the correct shape, and so expression, for the breed as well as what would be a healthy eye overall.  The Basset should never have a round eye, which again in my breed, can lead to a very harsh and untypical expression.   When you get a 'round eye shape' it often goes with a more bold eye (and interestingly an eye colour that was too light).  Hence 'lozenge', in this breed.

Facebook Replies:

Emma Judson says: Surely it depends on the shape of the eye socket in question, my Deerhound has certainly not got shallow eye sockets or protruding eyes but they are definitely NOT almond shaped.

Pam Tait says:  My Labrador had round eyes (NOT CORRECT) and she ended up having to have her eye removed and the vet who did the operation told me she had very deep sockets so the above theory is incorrect

Wolves have been about for thousands of years (if not longer) and they have 'Almond Shaped Eyes' mother nature knows best.

> Wolves have been about for thousands of years (if not longer) and they have 'Almond Shaped Eyes' mother nature knows best.

but do they all, and do other canids?

and are they almond or oval, (actual Almonds in their shell are oval, but what we call almond shape as far as I understand it is not). I say tom-ah-toe you say tom-ay-toe

"OVAL is fairly good in my opinion and not too far away from ALMOND in shape".

The above was my very first reply to you at the top of this page. Cheers.

Many animals in the wild do not have Almond Shaped Eyes are these mistakes of mother nature - think we may be in danger of picking and choosing to fit our theories.

Many animals in the wild do not have Almond Shaped Eyes are these mistakes of mother nature - think we may be in danger of picking and choosing to fit our theories.

Its the 'Canine' that is in danger when the 'Human' is picking and choosing to fit his/her theories, example: 'Round Shaped Eyes' that protrude so much that there is an increased risk of the dog scratching his/her eyes on bushes, thorns, brambles etc etc. That's why I believe 'Round Shaped Eyes' should be replaced with 'Almond Shaped Eyes'.

Wolves are the 'Best Example' (most relevant) animal to compare dogs with, and the fact that they have 'Almond Shaped Eyes' has absolutely nothing to do with human theory. Cheers.

I still maintain the normal eye is oval, the almond appearance in the wolf is the shape of the brow ridges, cheeks and stop.

Chows have oval as their eye description, in UK standard: Dark, oval shaped, medium sized and clean. A matching coloured eye permissible in blues and fawns. Clean eye, free from entropion, never being penalised for sake of mere size. - but that I think is to try and get away from the overly deep set and heavy facial features that lead to entropion being an issue, but almond in USA, but I think the over done head characteristics are the issue not the eye shape?

The Beagle has eyes that would be all wrong for my breed, which if seen in ours would be termed as round, but I don't think you'd call them unhealthy?

Eyes Dark brown or hazel, fairly large, not deep set or prominent, set well apart with mild, appealing expression. -

Dobermans: Eyes Almond-shaped, not round, moderately deep set, not prominent, with lively, alert expression......  but eyes like that in my breed would be alien, being rather oriental.  Knowing the breed comparing with my own, the lids are much thinner, and lashes shorter, and skull a different shape with no brows that change the expression and perception of eye shape.

http://www.runningwiththewolves.org/images/eye-color.jpg  these pictures show at least three eye shapes, one I'd call round and one too small and slitty.

Lots of images here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wolves+eyes&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA9_Sn8KzKAhXGOhQKHT2oB4YQ7AkIJw&biw=1088&bih=436, but some Id say are photo shopped and some are not wolves but husky hybrids as mature wolves do not have blue eyes, but you ahve3 round oval squinty almond etc shapes (but I'm sure the actual eyes are likely the same shape, it's the adnexa that alter our perception/description.

Also individual perception, almond to me is one extreme (so a negative descriptor) and round the other (hence my preference for Oval).

Thanks for the link. Cheers.

Wolves as you can see have 'Almond Shaped Eyes' their expression changes to suit their frame of mind (Alert, relaxed etc) but as you can see beautiful shaped eyes.

Akita's, German Shepherds, Rottweilers etc etc also have 'Almond Shaped Eyes' in their 'Breed Standards' now the Rottweiler has a very different head shape to that of The German Shepherd yet they still strive for the much desired 'Almond Shaped Eyes' and rightly so in my opinion (aim for the very best).

Any breed that strive towards achieving 'Round Shaped Eyes' will over time start to see their breeds eyes start to 'Protrude' more and more.