My in-laws were up today and we were discussing when they were going to have their bitch spayed. MIL told me that they were having her spayed 3 mths after her 1st season as that was "the only way to guarrantee she wouldn't get mamary tumours". I nearly fell off the sofa when she then proceeded to tell me that "if a bitch is spayed between the second and 3rd season it's 98% safe from mammary tumours, but if they're not spayed at all they'll definitely get mammary tumours".

They weren't necessarily going to have their bitch spayed yet when their vet told them this they felt they had no choice and have booked her in (£257 for a springer X labrador).

I'd have loved to have been able to tell them that their vet was simply a money grabbing scaremongerer but wasn't 100% certain of my facts :( Is their vet correct and if so why hasn't my vet ever mentioned it??

Fiona
x x x

It is a fact that spayed bitches rarely get mammary tumours but it is also a fact that a very large proportion of unspayed bitches also never get mammary tumours! So I would go with his first statment but the second!!!! The that "they'll definitely get mammary tumours" is scare tactics of the worst order! What he's saying is that in the wild every single bitch would have got mammary tumours and that is plainly wrong!

Part of a vet's job is to give advice but at all times it should be the truth.

Regards, John

£257 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get a second opinion!!!!
from Pinky And husband shouting over my shoulder!

Fiona,
Well, according to that vet we must've been extremely lucky or abnormal.;) We've had several bitches over the years. None of them were spayed and none of them ever had mammary tumours. Our last bitch did have a Pyrometra at 12 and was sucessfully operated on then.
As for the cost...DEFINITELY get a 2nd opinion. I know someone who was 122 for a spay on a springer and they thought that was dear.
Dot

P.S. I put it on another thread but you mustn't have seen it. I never got bank details for the donations for your walk. Could you send them please?:) How's it all going and have you started training for it?

Speying seem to be the u nscruplous vets favourite money spinner at the moment. A pup I sold earlier this year had a small umbilical hernia. This had been checked out by my vet, and we agreed that it would probably self fix, but as it was so small, and the pup was never going to be bred from, it was pointless to recomend surgery. Pup went to her new home at 12 weeks of age, and off to the new vet for the required check over (in our contract). Vet recomended immediate surgers on the hernia, and booked her in. I tried to get the new owner to talk to my vet, but no joy. When she went in for the op, her recomended that he may as well spey as well, while she was under the anasthetic, new owner agreed, so she was speyed at 16 weeks:(. I couldnt believe it! Total cost over £300 - what a nice little earner;)
Gwen

I'll email you privately with the details Dot :)

Fiona
x x x

Fi,
If I remember the stats correctly aproximately 40% of unspayed bitches will develop mammarry tumours at some point in their lives, of these tumours around 45% are malignant. From this it would appear that the chance of a malignant lump is less than 25%.

My oldest bitch who is almost 11 had a pea size lump at 5 years old, this was removed and analysis showed it was a malignant one.

The recovery is excellent if these malignant lumps are removed when small.

Now I think I read recently that the majority of bitches in some large breeds become incontinent as a result of spaying. Especially high in Rotties and Boxers for some reason.

<<Now I think I read recently that the majority of bitches in some large breeds become incontinent as a result of spaying. Especially high in Rotties and Boxers for some reason. >>

Plus Dobes and OES - strange they are all docked breeds isn't it? :-)

I have often asked but have never been provided with the documentatary proof that early spaying prevents mammary tumors, there must have been some research for these figures to keep coming up again and again.

I can't see the point in having a bitch spayed unless she has a problem or the owners are careless in their care of a bitch when in season?

Christine

Total nonsence, not only do spayed bitches sometimes get mamary tumours so do male dogs. And as John has said intact bitches do NOT always get tumours any more than ALL women do. And over £200 this vet needs reporting not only for the cost but all so for bulling his clients. Feel my blood preasure going up even now. Jackie

On a similar vein, I sold a dog pup a few months ago - nice couple take pup to the vet for his first vaccination & get told by the young vet that they should have him neutered as early as possible as ALL entire dogs get cancer (the type of cancer was not specified) I had already discussed the pros & cons of neutering with the owners but this vet put the fear of god in them, to the extent they thought if they didn't have their pup "done" asap, then he would die of cancer sooner or later :-( I persuaded them to see another vet, thankfully an older, experienced vet this time who strongly disagreed with the first vet's "opinion" that all entire dogs get cancer & sensibly advised them not to neuter their puppy unless it became necessary for either medical or behavioural reasons. Are new vets being taught to use scare tactics to promote early neutering?? It certainly looks that way sometimes!

Jane

Perhaps these 'scare tactics' are being used on the young vets during their training? Their instructors could be laying the 'fear' onto them. After all, how many vet students have a lot of farm/multiple pets experience before going through school?

I understand that there is good evidence that spaying reduces the incidence of mammary tumours..this is well documented. I discussed the issue with my vet, as I am starting to show my afghan girl. He told me that there is still a benefit to be gained from spaying as late as after the 4th heat. So take time to consider the choices!

REDUCES is the operative word, there is no hard and fast rule that a bitch will or will not develop mammary tumours, spayed or otherwise. It is probabley about the same % as those who go onto develop other problems because of the spaying. Jackie

I had a big row with a vet several years ago after someone who had bought a golden retriever puppy from me went and had the pups vaccinations done and the vet said you had better book her in for spaying at 4 months old!! If they didn't she would get mammary tumours. Luckily them phoned me first for advice.
All the vet would say was the earlier the better.

I agree money grabbers

Bobbi