Hi there,

First time poster, long time reader.

I have currently got Dad and 5 pups, 2 bitches and 3 males. We did have mum however lost her under anaethetic after succesfully delivering 8 pups via c-section. Heartbreaking times however we have have 5 pups to care for.

We reared them on welpi for there first 4 weeks and are now weaning them onto dry/mush. My questions are:

1: How much to feed them?

I only started today and gave between the 5 pups: 300ml welpi made formula, 150ml boiling water and 125/150g of hand blended dry biscuits (wainrights sensitive puppy).

2: is Wainrights sensitive puppy safe?

It says its for 2 months to 12 months. This is what I was advised to get in the pet store.

3: 2 of the pups (Mrs white and Mr Red) have always sneezed milk but in the past 3/4 days have got a little worse. They are now sneezing the mush up and I am very worried. The vet has looked over them and they do not have a cleft palate. They have had 2 courses of antibiotics. Is there anything I can do to help them?

Thanks,

I know its a lot.

I start feeding mashed puppy food made up with goats milk puppy formula at 18 days and by 3 weeks they are fed 4 times a day plus Mum, so in the case of your litter they may need up to 6 meals 4 solid and say two of just milk initially, as up to about 5 weeks they would be being topped up by Mum in additon to their 4 meals a day.

I feed to appetite.  I find the food needs to be thick enough so they can't choke and splutter so think think porridge, and not as runny as custard..

Hi hello,  Congratulations on rearing your litter of puppies yourself without mums help, oh what a nightmare !!

I have only ever reared puppies with their mum, at 4 weeks puppies would be on 3 feeds, by 5 weeks weeks onwards they would be on 4 meals. All meals would be of a solid form (although not dry kibble)

I never use sloppy milky feeds as their milk is usually supplied by mum. ( I understand that your situation is slightly different but life for you should start to get much easier now)
You will have to continue giving milk feeds with or between solids up to 6/7 weeks but much less as they get older.

My job as their breeder is to get the puppies onto 4 good quality solid feeds by 8 weeks of age and with none of mums milk, so that they are ready to leave for their new homes with no feeding issues or difficulties for the new owners.

At 4 to 5 weeks your puppies should be eating proper solid meals and by 7 weeks they should be completely independant of mum or any milk feeds, then at 8 weeks they wolud have had 1 whole week of normal solid food with absolutely nothing sloppy and definately no milk !  Ready to find their new homes and a new grown up life.
At 7/8 weeks mums/your job should be finished and no more milk available.

Puppies at 4 weeks have teeth and are perfectly capable of eating a solid food.

Your puppies Mr and Mrs may well find that firmer solid food helps with their sneezing,  when they eat normal solid food they should swallow  rather than inhale it!

Start worming;  at 2 weeks. thereafter at 2 weekly intervals. See your vet for a worming product. I purchase Drontol puppy suspension online, it does not need a prescription and is a much cheaper way to purchase than from your vet.

Now this is where I begin to upset things!

I have always reared puppies using raw minced meat. Never have any upset tummies.
It is soft and very easy for little puppies tummies to digest (such a very natural product).
Grain based foods are very difficuly for our dogs digestive systems to properly digest, especially such young puppies. Very often you will have puppies with very full looking even bloated tummies and often horendous bouts of the "squirts".

Try to include some raw minced meat while you are weaning, either with their kibble or as seperate feeds, (this will help their digestive systems tremendously).

Goats milk is much better than cows milk.  Goats natural "live" yogurt is fantastic for replacing good bacteria into the gut, it helps with upset tummies too.

A grain free kibble would also be much better than one made of or with any grain.
(Wheat, Maize, Barley, Rice, Oats, ) are all grains. These products can but not always cause digestive problems and later in life allergies etc.
Most good pet stores have a freezer and can supply frozen minced meat of some description. 

Goood luck with your weaning. :)

Morning,

Thanks for the advice, it had been a great help.

We woke up this morning ang found they had all done lots of very soft mushy poo's so we ckntacted the vet about the issues and he thinks we should go back to milk and gradually introduce the mush... Even though majority of it was formula made.

They were very tired, gurning and shivery so I cranked on the heating, refilled there 2 hot water bottles and gave then a good wash and dry.

Feels like I'm back to the start.

P.s. The wainwrights puppy food they are being weaned onto is the grain free option.

Hi again,

Unfortunately our vets can give advice but I am sure not many of them have actually reared any litters pf puppies themselves.

Your puppies are over 4 weeks of age now and it is essential that they start to get some solid food inside, too much milk at this stage will only cause loose/soft poos !!
Please offer them some raw minced chicken meat, this will help to bind their poos, forget the sloppy stuff!

I will echo what others have said unless your vets are breeders themselves their practical,. puppy rearing knowledge will be scant.  Their knowledge of canine nutrition may also be rudimentary (it's not really a  a part of vet training, I believe they get a talk by a pet food manufacturer).

I have normally found formula milk after about 4 weeks will often result in soft poos, as it coincides with when the bitch drastically reduces her feeding of pups as they should be on mainly solid food.

I used to like to keep giving formula milk until pups went, but then found that I was better following what the bitch was doing, if she was reducing milk feeds then I did too, and have found all my pups have had much firmer stools.

By 4 weeks my pups aren't even having their kibble mashed but just well soaked with warm water, and gradually I soak less long, less water, and eventually only pour on some cold water by 6 weeks, mainly to stop them scattering the food everywhere.  By 8 weeks they are getting it dry.

I obviously have fresh water available as soon as I introduce other food.  I use the road refresher bowls as I always worried about very young pups drowning, and also makes them less inclined to paddle or tip their water bowls over.

Sorry to hear of your loss and wishing you and the pups every success. Not reared a litter but I'm amazed at the time, energy, devotion those that breed put into each litter. Without dedicated, loving breeders we wouldn't have such healthy pups, I know the farms churn out poor, unsocial pups and the poor girls that are bred within an inch of their lives my heart goes out too.
Wonder if a farm has ever produced a good healthy puppy?

> Wonder if a farm has ever produced a good healthy puppy?

Nature being what it is, some will be fine despite their poor start, and that helps these places continue in business.

I also think to some extent, based on what I see around me, is that many people have quite low expectations for long term health of their dogs.

they expect their dogs to be on medication, riddled with arthritis due to poor hips etc by the time their dogs are 8 to 10,and that certain things are inevitable due to breed.

First off Thanks to you all for great advice. It really is apprelciated.

I just want to reiterate this was not in any way a planned pregnancy. My male caughtbthe bitch twice and all precautions available were taken.

Vet advice was to stay away from the morning after pill injection and let nature runnits course.

Our vet is really good at what they do and are very caring.

UPDATE:

Pups are doing a lot better now they are on the food for a few days. I am currently mixing 2 cups of biscuits with 1 cup formula and more water. I make it so it is not as soft as porrisge but still soft enough to build them up to eating dry.

I give them around 40/50g of this in a nice flat, raised up bowl and also squirt in aroubd 25ml or formula. Water is also available, which they suprisingly love.

Had to go back on antibiotics due to Mr Red sneezing up his food a lot and some green stuff.

Can't wait until they are eating realy thick or even dry to stop this little monster inhaling his food.

> Vet advice was to stay away from the morning after pill injection and let nature runnits course.<br />

What totally irresponsible advice.  I just want to cry and scream!!!

The modern mismate injection called Alizin is very effective, and is normally administered after the end of the season (in case the bitch gets mated again during the season).

Alternatively your vet could have spayed your bitch, no ideal time to spay but no worse than spaying a young bitch only t find she was about to come in season, or spaying due to a Pyometra following a season.

Even if the tragedy of loosing your bitch had not happened, your left with five extra lives to make provision for.

This could so easily have been avoided, any issues with the injection are far outweighed by the risks of pregnancy and whelping.

I do appreciate the advice. You clearly are educated however, What I will say is we went on the advice of a profesional and are currently dealing with hand rearing pups along with trying to get over losing our bitch..... Hindsight is of no help to me and it is easy to look bacak at something that has happened and say 'if only'

> we went on the advice of a profesional

Problem is their profession educates them in the diagnosis and treatment of illness and injury.  Very few are experts in dog breeding unless they breed.  A GP vet is no different to your GP doctor, except they perform operations

Sadly on here we hear many horror stories of bad advice from Veteriniary professionals, which people tend to think of as all round Experts in animals.

Good to hear puppies are doing a little better. How's dad with the puppies?

I guess yes there will be the odd "good puppy" coming through the puppy farms. Our previous dogs all brought with a looking forward to having a dog for years. We yes, checked puppy at vet and had insurance,apart from this I didn't really have a thought re future health worries. If we had a health problem pop up I just dealt with it. If I worried constantly re "possible health affects of the breed ,I'd never buy a dog! Same I guess with medicines, read the back re side effects and it could really make you paranoid!