Has anyone else received a survey from the KC regarding negative experiences of buying puppies from non KC assured breeders, especially when the puppy became ill and you suspected it came from a puppy farm. Over 30 years we have bought five pups, two beagles and three GRs. Only the last one came from a KC approved breeder. I find I can't fill the survey in as we have not had a negative experience. Admittedly, we were probably lucky a couple of times -we answered ads in the paper but I don't think the KC scheme existed thirty years ago. I know many of you take great pains to breed quality pups, but have reservations about the scheme and wondered how you felt about the survey. I would like to have had the opportunity to praise our recent breeders who did all the tests, put a huge amount of effort into their litters and yet don't participate in the scheme, but the first question immediately asks for negative experiences. I just felt it was skewed from the start.

As well as being skewed in that it assumes that purchasing from a non-ABS breeder will result in a negative experience, it also doesn't allow the option to fill in the survey regarding negative experiences from an ABS breeder!

I think they are getting desperate to attract/attract back people to the scheme by making those outside it seem less good.

There are only three breeders in my breed still on the scheme, and interestingly they are ones who breed less regularly.  None of our breeders these days breed more than 2 litters in a year, most average 1 or less.

All our breeders within the Kennel club system adhere to our breed clubs code of ethics re health testing age of sale etc

Good point Kayenine. I am all in favour of anything that improves quality of life for dogs, just not sure how compiling a list of horror stories is going to help.

Rosie Retriever .. Would be very interested to see links to this survay. Not received it but then again I was a founder member of ABS and resigned last year.
Could you PM now details ?

I don't know if it'll work, I get the impression it was specifically emailed to people who have used an assured breeder.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PAW2015?utm_campaign=PAW+2015+-+case+study+collection+-+14052015&utm_source=emailCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=

As I say, I can't even answer Q1!! I would have thought it would be better to push the benefits of ABS and not the problems with not using. Explained that very badly, sorry.

it also doesn't allow the option to fill in the survey regarding negative experiences from an ABS breeder!

There would be no need as that is something you would report back on the form you get with your puppy's paperwork, and if you have problems later on you can contact the KC anytime with a complaint about an Assured Breeder.

> just not sure how compiling a list of horror stories is going to help.

Totally agree.  And I admit that I've not replied to my email from the KC.

>I don't know if it'll work, I get the impression it was specifically emailed to people who have used an assured breeder.

My latest pup came from an assured breeder about two years ago but I haven't had this survey.

Prior to buying the latest pup, I don't think the assured breeding scheme was about. I found out about pups for sale in the local newspaper, but luckily have always had good experiences with the breeders health testing etc even right back in the early 70's when I bough an Irish setter.

I find I can't fill the survey in as we have not had a negative experience.

Do you mean the form us designed to omit non assured dogs without probs? another KC promotion ploy, still trying to gain some credibility after PDE!
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This is the scheme where a breeder gets an Accolade from the KC for registering more than 5 litters with them.

I am not an assured breeder but I did recieve the information email with the option to fill in the questionare.
I do not read the kennel club news letters just delete them.
I have never purchased a puppy from an assured breeder.    I have had assured breeders use my dog for stud purposes though!

"As well as being skewed in that it assumes that purchasing from a non-ABS breeder will result in a negative experience, it also doesn't allow the option to fill in the survey regarding negative experiences from an ABS breeder! "

    This sounds like a typically biased 'survey' if this is the case.   No, I've not received such a survey request, but then I'm not active, buying or selling, any longer.

My last two buy-ins came from non-ABS breeders, the last I'd known for years.   I did have early medical problems with my boy however.   Things I didn't expect to be dealing with given the source!!

" Do you mean the form us designed to omit non assured dogs without probs? another KC promotion ploy, still trying to gain some credibility after PDE!"

I'd suggest this has more to do with trying to gain credibility for the ABS scheme although I suppose the two may be linked (PDE).    That programme was aired a long time ago now however.

If you have had a negative puppy buying experience before buying from a Kennel Club Assured Breeder, or suspect a previous puppy could have come from a puppy farm  - and are happy for the Kennel Club press office to get in touch for more information and to publicise your story – please take just a few moments to tell us about your experience here.

It would appear that they are touting for stories for puppy awareness week.

> It would appear that they are touting for stories for puppy awareness week.

and of course they are trying to push the ABS as a sure way of not falling into a bad breeder experience.

I wouldn't mind but actually contacting a breed club and buying from breeders seriously involved within their breed is probably just as god or better.  Within a breed club breeders have peer pressure to keep them n the straight and narrow.

I'd have no issue if the KC advice was buy from an ABS member or someone who is a member of their breed club, and so has a serious interest in their breed.

The worst experience Iv had was with an ABS breeder, infact 2 of the worst dogs Iv ever had were from ABS breeders, ill never make that mistake again and a reason why I won't ever join the scheme.

If KC wish to only have people use their ABS scheme then they should refuse adverts from any non ABS litters. It smacks of double standards to promote one scheme whilst taking money from others not on the scheme. I did choose a puppy from a non ABS breeder I went through KC because of the good name. Too many people talk the talk but don't walk the walk!
OK that's my little vent done.

Most good breeders are fine with the principles of the ABS scheme, what many of us are unhappy with is the details, being to prescriptive especially re the form of reco4rd keeping (I don't know how anyone without access to a computer could possibly do it) and advice given to new owners, the having to do things one way so that we can pass the box ticking exercise that UKAS accreditation means.

The UKAS stuff and process is great if you have a formal kennel set up, but do not really sit well with the majority of us breeders who keep dogs as family members and breed within the confines of oru homes and keep and rear pups in a manner that suits us and them and our facilities/homes best.

What the Kennel put up as requirements no-one can really argue with.

I have seen the actual assessment forms and much of that makes me feel uncomfortable and too pigeon holed, so I left.

I have since my first litter done al the relevant health testing for my breed, given puppy packs and permanent responsibility for pups bred.  I think I can prove my credentials enough through belonging to my breed club and adhering to the clubs code of ethics.

"I wouldn't mind but actually contacting a breed club and buying from breeders seriously involved within their breed is probably just as good or better.  Within a breed club breeders have peer pressure to keep them n the straight and narrow."

Totally agree.    Unfortunately with ABS, it can suggest to the novice owner that this automatically does mean the breeder is a good one.  It should, but it's not necessarily the case.   Just as with selling 'KC Registered puppies', people know that they can perhaps ask more for their puppies if they do this.   Again with being on the KC Puppy lists.    The only time I went on there horrified me as I found my name listed alongside people I knew were Puppy Farmers.   Never again.

I do believe the KC puppy list is not available to people who breed enough litters (over 4) and are required to hold a LA breeding license.

The KC does ask for copy of the license for anyone registering a 5th litter in a 12 month.