Breeders, I have a question....

My breed is a working breed, and my priority of homes would be working/competition/dog sport homes.  Those homes would make it to the top of my list, regardless of the order in which I receive enquiries before the birth of the litter.

Now, what happens if I receive an enquiry from a brilliant competition home once the litter are on the ground and once I've told pet homes they can have a pup?  Even assuming I haven't taken deposits, do I just have to say 'sorry, amazing home, all the pups are already spoken for' and watch the pup go to a pet home instead???

Or can I be clear with people from the start that competition/working homes are my preference and they might get bumped from the list even once the litter are on the ground??? 

Similarly, what happens if I've verbally told owners they can have a pup, but then I just start to have a bad feeling about a family?  Do I honestly say why this is, at the risk of offending them?  Do I just say a better home has become available and my priority is and has always been the best homes?

I would really like to be able to place pups in the best homes available - whatever order I learn about them in.  Has anyone done things this way and how did it work?  Thanks.

I do things in a similar way as I too prefer working homes -and also show homes. Those homes come first. Hence when people get added to my waiting list I will never tell them they are number so and so on the list -unless it is somebody who has already had a pup from me or who I already know really well. But once the pups are BORN, I don't change things. If I have more owners than pups at birth, then I allocate them within the first few days and if I have told somebody they can have a pup then they will get one, even if a "better" home should appear. Anything else would be really unfair and would also quickly mean that you'd find yourself with nobody wanting to go on a waiting list in future.

On the other hand, if you change your mind about somebody, then that is different, and yes I would TELL them why. If you don't tell them, you can't really turn them down. It doesn't really matter if you end up offending them (as long as you say it nicely, of course) as what matters is that your pup does not end up in an unsuitable home.

Thanks Marianne.  So you do change things if you're worried about the home, but not just for a competition home?

I'd be sooo peed off to see a good pup go to a pet home, I'd be keeping my fingers crossed someone backed out!!!

Yes that's what I do. I can certainly understand the frustration but all you can do is recommend another breeder. I don't know if it varies from breed to breed, but my experience is that the working homes tend to get in touch long before they are ready for a pup anyway as they tend to plan things good and proper and so do not appear when pups are already on the ground.

They are your pups, but I would do as I would have doen to me and ocne I said someone could have a pup then I'd stick with it, and add the super home to my list for a future litter, or pass tehm to anoerh breeder with similar working type pups like yours.

As pups in my bred tend to be feast or famine (around 50+/- registrations some years) I think it unfair to mess people about as they may find it hard to locate another pup having not gone on another breeders waiting list due to promises from me.

Though in the UK most homes are 'Pet homes' as their work would not be legal here, and we get sadly few Agility etc enquiries, and too few for show.

> I'd be sooo peed off to see a good pup go to a pet home

This happens a lot even when people have booked saying they wanted to show, it's very disappointing, but the pup having a good home matters most.  There is always the danger with someone whose priority is a pup for show or work, that if it doesn't fulfil expectations it will be more likely to be re-homed.

I do try and keep back the most promising pup of each sex for someone who may show.

> it's very disappointing, but the pup having a good home matters most

Here here! Love you for that comment Brainless

Afterall - on the one hand the public need to be educated as to how to find a good breeder with full health tests etc - but one the other hand if good breeders don't sell to pet homes - where are the public expected to go to buy their dogs?!

Surely there are some dodgy working homes just as much as there are good pet homes? I may be very naive here but there are no absolute guarantees that a working home is going to be any better than a pet home. As a pet owner, I would feel very upset If I was passed over for a supposedly superior home when I do my best to provide a good, stimulating home for my pet dogs.

Of course the home itself is the most important thing, but I mean, if all else is equal, then working or competition homes would be top of my list.  After all, every breeder wants to see the progeny of their dog being successful (as well as being sociable and happy) as that is proof that your breeding is going in the right direction, right?

Yes, I take your point. Thanks for clarifying!

Not sure what type of work your dog is bred for but we bought our first lab as a pet from a shooting estate. Once we saw his pedigree and knew what the 47 FTCH marks on his pedigree meant we thought we had better do what this dog was bred for and started gundog classes with him and then got right into the beating/picking up with him. Maybe if you encourage a 'pet' home to try out his 'job' they will do as we did and never look back.

From a different angle but still relevant:

From time to time I find myself smoothing over troubled waters when we receive emails from deeply upset and/or angry people whom have been promised a puppy (verbal and/or deposit taken) and then for whatever reason, the breeder 'changes their mind' at the 11 hour. In some cases would-be owners have travelled hundreds of miles to view litters and spent time and money finding the right breeder and right litter.

They place a deposit and go home and make plans for the arrival of their bundle of joy, only for the breeder to text them (!!) to say they have changed their mind. Sometimes, only within hours of the people setting out to pick puppies up. We realise that it is a breeders prerogative to 'change their mind' but please, give some consideration to the family you are doing this to and your reasons for your change of heart. We understand that the puppies future life must come first and would not want it any other way, but do please remember that you are dealing with people with feelings and no matter what your reason for a 'change of mind', there is no excuse under the sun for sending someone a TEXT to say they can not have a puppy. Such breeders give everyone a bad name and again undermine all the good breeders out there. At the very least the person you turn down deserves a phone call and explanation for your change of heart. They may not like your reasons but that is far better than being left worrying about what they did or said wrong.
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>Once we saw his pedigree and knew what the 47 FTCH marks on his pedigree meant we thought we had better do what this dog was bred for and started gundog classes with him and then got right into the beating/picking up with him. Maybe if you encourage a 'pet' home to try out his 'job' they will do as we did and never look back.

Very good point and very true

I'm posting under Choosing the Puppy.  As Admin says I've got to be prepared for the breeder not wanting me to be the new owner.   I actually wouldn't mind a text or email because that way I would be able to deal with it better.   Everyone is different.

They place a deposit and go home and make plans for the arrival of their bundle of joy, only for the breeder to text them (!!) to say they have changed their mind. Sometimes, only within hours of the people setting out to pick puppies up. We realise that it is a breeders prerogative to 'change their mind'

But is it, when a deposit has been taken? Doesn't that constitute a contract so the breeder HAS to sell the pup? I don't like deposits, above all because I want the buyer to be able to change their minds at any time -it feels safer all way round.

> Doesn't that constitute a contract so the breeder HAS to sell the pup?

Nope as I have paid deposits for inanimate objects and had them back due to being unable to fulfil order

.http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/webcontent/home/services/community+and+living/consumer+advice+and+protection/es-mw-tradingstandardsfaq#deposit

Trading standards FAQ

"If I cancel an order can I get my deposit  back?

Probably not. Most deposits are not returnable. If you cancel an order, then you are in breach of contract, and the seller could be entitled to keep your deposit as compensation for your breach. However, it would have to be a reasonable amount, bearing in mind the expenses likely to have been incurred by the retailer.

What if the supplier  cancels an order for some reason, can I get my deposit back?

Yes, you are entitled to have your deposit returned. If the supplier cancels an order he will be in breach of contract and should return any money you have paid. There may be terms in your contract which allow him to keep some, or all, of your deposit in certain circumstances, however these terms will probably be unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1994.

You are also entitled to have your deposit returned if you have asked the trader to arrange finance for the purchase of the goods, and your application has been rejected by the finance company."

Bad homes/owners can happen in either a working or show. Yes they may appear to have knowledge/experience/awards! It doesn't guarantee 100% a brilliant home. Yes I'd be miffed if I'd had a verbal agreement to have a puppy then the breeder "bumps me because they fancy another owner instead. I'd never trust that breeder again. I agree with admin a lot of people then vent frustration/feedback to the advert site and/or breed club. A lot of heartache and headaches all round!
A lot of "pet" homes may as one poster here advised do research, take lessons etc and give that dog a great home. For me the breeder at the start should advise if it's their preference to only take names from show/working owners.
It feels as if some breeders have a nimby  approach to some prospective owners because they do not show or work their dogs.

Nope as I have paid deposits for inanimate objects and had them back due to being unable to fulfil order.

But that surely means there is no product available -the puppy will still exist and be healthy.

Just gave the quote from trading standards repeated on several sites:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/aberdeen/FAQ.HTM#Q05

If I cancel an order can I get any deposit back that I paid?
Probably not. Most deposits are not returnable. If you cancel an order, the seller could be entitled to keep your deposit as compensation for your breach of the agreement, however it would have to be a reasonable amount depending on the circumstances.
 

What if the supplier cancels an order for some reason, can I get any deposit back that I paid?
Probably yes although you may have to take a small claims action if he refuses. If the supplier cancels an order he will be in breach of contract and should return any monies you have paid. There may be terms in your contract which allow him to keep some or all of your deposit in such circumstances, however these terms will probably be unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 - contact your local Trading Standards Department for more details.

I don't think I would take a deposit, and I think I would really grill someone very well on the phone before allowing them to travel that far to see me, so hopefully only people who were suitable homes would end up doing that.

I guess I come from the position of being a trainer and of seeing many puppies through my puppy training classes.  I'm pretty horrified at the small amount of time most homes give these puppies, and at their low expectations for them - in terms of the standard of training, let alone gaining any titles.

Yes there are pet homes that they become working homes - we were one of them, once - but, running gundog training classes myself, very very very few pet owners make it through my earlier classes to the gundog classes.  People just don't seem to care enough to train their dog well.  There is this massive enthusiasm and novelty factor at first, when they enrol, but when it comes to achieving things, Rome wasn't built in a day, and it takes more than a month or so of classes to reach the levels I like to help people to reach - and most people just can't be bothered, or are too busy.

I also see repeatedly that kids come first, and that the puppy ends up as lowest priority after the kids have been shuttled around to after school activities.  I don't have kids myself, and felt pretty neutral about them, but seeing the impact on dogs and puppies in families with kids, and watching families at training classes,  I've ended up actively disliking most kids!!!!  Yes, there are exceptions... but that's a gamble.  So I wouldn't be homing to families with any kids under the age of 10, or with plans to start a family.

Without a deposit, it doesn't seem fair that a buyer can just on a whim decide not to have a puppy, but the breeder can't decide on a whim (ie a better home comes along) not to home a puppy to them....?