I am at my wits' end.  The WFT (now nearly 12 months old) has suddenly shown frequent aggression towards my sheltie who has the sweetest of natures.  This has gradually built up over the last few weeks but this weekend it seems to have escalated.  The terrier sidles up to the sheltie in a threatening manner and if I don't get there first, she sets upon her.  Ijust  don't know why - she is OK with the other two dogs.  She is at the tail end of a season, is recovering from an anaesthetic she had on Friday and as I mentioned in another post,  is suffering with a bad ear.  In my heart of hearts though I don't believe any of those reasons have much to do with this aggression.  I am now nervous of leaving them together.

I've never had this before and don't know how to deal with it.  I know that Wires are feisty and a handful but this aggression is very upsetting.  At the moment each time Sophie (WFT) has a go at poor Isla I put her in her crate to cool off - which is where she is right now.  Any ideas why this is happening when up to recently all the dogs got on quite well?

It could be the ear,  and associating your Sheltie with the pain,  but I'm not convinced either I'm afraid.

How old is the Sheltie?   Female?

How old are the other two dogs?   Breed?   Sex?

Have tried researching the breed and their ability to live with other dogs on Uk websites,  and there is a significant absence of information on temperament and living with the breed.   I'm afraid I don't find this reassuring at all.

However,  on the American Wirehaired Fox Terrier Club/Association websites temperament and ability to live with other dogs is mentioned.  It does say that like many breeds of Terrier,  keeping more than 2 dogs together can be problematic,  especially if they are the same sex.

And of course,  two bitches together can be more problematic than two dogs.   

Did you discuss this with the breeder?   

I have had three Bedlington Terrier bitches,  all entire,  living together, but they were all related and with 4 years between each.    I have never had a problem with them getting along even at season time.     

I'm not sure whether this is due to careful selection of temperament to fit in (as well as suitability for showing./breeding),  training,  management,  or what.    But I do know that we have an unusual situation.    Friends' Bedlingtons have not always been as peaceable and there have  been incidents where an owner hasn't spotted that two dogs aren't happy with each other.  

And Bedlingtons are the most peaceful of the Terrier breeds not given to starting fights (but they will finish one if necessary)

Really,  I do think you should phone the breeder asap,  and discuss this development with them,  as your young WFT is just about mature now and this form of challenging behaviour needs to be dealt with appropriately.

For the moment,  it would be wise to not leave your WFT with the Sheltie unless you are supervising.   You may need to separate her from your other dogs too when you are out.   Just in case something develops and escalates.

Hi Dill

Thank you for your helpful reply.

The sheltie is 6 years old and spayed, then  there is Hannah, mixed breed dog I rescued from Crete some years ago,  also 6 and spayed.  Hannah is aloof and looks after herself - she wouldn't put up with such behaviour so she is not a problem.  Then there is Pip, the one male (JR terrier) and rescued by us 10 years ago - he must be 14 by now.  He and Sophie have had the odd spat but usually over chews etc - nothing major.  It just is poor Isla who seems to set Sophie off.  Isla does have a massive thick coat which has always fascinated Sophie but as I have said she has no aggression and never growls etc.

I am in touch with the breeder but I don't think she would be much help.  I know Sophie's litter brother and the mother who seem fine.  Breeder is getting on a bit and has retired from breeding now although still shows a bit.  I think she finds her several WFTs a handful as their barking drives the neighbour crazy!  She is a a very nice person though.  When I got Sophie as a puppy it never occurred to me that there would be a problem.  I've always had assorted dogs and most of these  problems sort themselves out after a short time.

Do you think I should get Sophie spayed?

Sounds like wanting to up her position in the pack as she is growing up and picking on the weakest/lowest ranking of the pack on her social climb.  The male will not be an issue normally.

As terriers will not just spat but really fight I would not leave her unattended with the other dogs when not there to supervise.

I had the issue with one of my bitches a rescue girl with Moose the older very out going but submissive in many ways. It started out of the blue and it was a sudden unexplained ( at the time ) frenzied attacks .

Betty was always the instigator and Moose never fought back poor girl.

I did a lot of observing to watch what was going on and gradually noticed the triggers that would start an attack.

They were never left alone together and managed to control  the attacks by looking to avoid certain triggers points.

I was never 100% successful but the attacks became rare rather than the norm.

I would have said that just having been in season has a lot to do with it, as that is when bitches that are want to take over as top bitch are likely to do it -then or when they have been mated or had pups.  They are no longer puppies but adults and so decide the time to take over the top spot is now. And yes such bitches can be problematic for sure. Personally I find the most important thing is for fights never to start properly, because if they do, they continue and you have to split them up permanently. So what I do with one of my breeds where bitches can be prone to falling out, is never leave two bitches together when I leave the house. Doesn't matter if they have never been anything but friends, they are split up if I am not here. Touchwood it seems to be working. I have managed to have litter sisters not fall out, and of course they would be the ones most likely of all to fall out.

Do you think I should get Sophie spayed?

Personally I have not found that spaying makes any difference at all, and in your case you'd need to consider if you want to continue showing, as I am pretty certain this is a breed where spaying can ruin the coat.

I have 3 bitches that don't get on with some of my others (and they are the ones STARTING trouble), and those 3 have ALL been spayed. One has had pups, the other two not.

After a calm start this morning when I began to feel more optimistic, Sophie asked to go out (this is one of the trigger points I think).  Isla the sheltie was lying in the utility room near the door.  Sophie went up to her and starting sniffing around.  I called her sharply but then she set upon Isla, all teeth and growls and as bad as ever,  obviously with me trying to separate them.  Even Isla had her teeth out.  She is  in disgrace in her crate at the moment.  Yet earlier they were playing in the garden, although I did notice that Sophie was trying to mount her.  I do know that any excitement can trigger these attacks ie doorbell ringing etc.

We got Sophie as we have always admired the showy looks of the WFT and wanted to do a bit of showing but I never bargained for this!.  My husband says that if it persists we will have to rehome her (through the breed rescue) but I have never done such a thing, or given up on a dog, in my life.  But the difficulty of keeping them  apart all the time is daunting.  I love Sophie - she is a feisty little character and very affectionate towards us - but seems to be spending a lot of time in disgrace at present.

I feel for you -it's awful when bitches fall out and if you haven't got the facilities to keep them apart for life, it's a tough decision to make. If you do end up taking the decision to rehome Sophie, please go to the BREEDER first though, not breed rescue. Any good breeder will take a dog back at any time for any reason, and would be very upset at finding a dog they'd bred in rescue.

Oh I certainly would go the breeder first to see if she would like to have her back.  Also she may know someone who could give her a good home.  But first we have decided to get her bad ear sorted as I don't think that is helping.  Back to the vet in the morning.  There is a local behaviourist attached to the vet I could arrange a consultation with. I am sort of hoping that this situation will pass and things will return to normal.  Does it ever?  If only it would.

Did you discuss with the breeder the ability of a Wire Haired Fox Terrier to live with other dogs?    And in particular their line.    Some lines will be more laid back than others.

I would think that is a first port of call.   Especially as you are now having problems

Especially where two bitches are concerned.   There used to be a saying on Champdogs "Dogs fight for breeding rights,  bitches fight for breathing rights"
. 

As you say,  they are fiesty characters,  as are many Terrier breeds,  and this can have implications for their ability to live with other dogs/bitches.     Some terrier breeders have a rule of never two of the same sex together.

This has no bearing on how affectionate they are with their human companions,  it simply concerns their ability to live with other dogs.

Many people who have never lived with a Terrier breed can't appreciate how quickly they can switch from docile loveable dog to raving monster.   With my own soft and loving dogs (more whippet-like than terrier most of the time)   it's the mere smell of a rat/mouse/fox and it's literally like a switch being flicked in their heads.

> Many people who have never lived with a Terrier breed can't appreciate how quickly they can switch from docile loveable dog to raving monster

I can!!

I have 2 bitches that grew up together, were best friends till one day they fought, really fought and that was the end of them ever being allowed near each other.

> first we have decided to get her bad ear sorted as I don't think that is helping

Having earache is awful and it really does make some dogs less tolerant and grumpy BUT this does sound like it might be something else.  12 months is a good age (bad age!) for these issues to surface, your youngster no longer feels like the baby of the house but is still using what's left of her puppy licence to stretch her boundaries with the other dogs.  Any problems you are experiencing at the moment could well become the norm if not managed carefully.  Of course there may well be no easy answer but it will certainly pay to keep them apart as much as you can, particularly when excitement levels are high.

You've mentioned that you know Sophie's litter brother and mother - are they close enough for you to spend some time with them?  Sometimes young dogs need to learn important lessons but do better to learn them with the same breed.  It might also give you the opportunity to have some conversations about the breed in general and get some extra hints and ideas to manage her behaviours.

Do you use baby gates at home?  I used to find them useful to remove my older dogs when my pups were being a nuisance.  The youngster had to stay with me whilst the older ones were given the chance to sit on a sofa in my 'best' room!  That way the oldies don't think they are being punished by sending them to bed and the youngster has the object of their silly nonsense removed.  I do think that sometimes sending a youngster to bed is a good idea but it doesn't always teach them anything useful :)

Good luck with the ears :)

Thanks for your comments - they are really helpful - it's even cheering to know that this situation is not that uncommon.  I would just say that in my time I have had several terriers,  in fact I love the little devils -which was why I imagined I would cope pretty well with Sophie.  I have had three Jack Russells and a Westie over the years.  Westies can be quite feisty but the JRs were fairly laid back. Sophie loves my daughter's JR - but then he is a boy!

I do have a house large enough to separate the 2 dogs so that is what I am doing.  Sophie's crate is in the utility room so I am hoping to get her used to spending some time in there at night and when we are out or when the situation needs diffusing.:  Sounds daft bty I have sprayed Isla all over with a dog deodorant as I have noticed that the fighting starts with Sophie sniffing her nether regions before the teeth come out.So far she seems calmer tonight ....... fingers crossed

My Peni at 2 1/2 is a humper, and before during and after a season she likes to mount the other bitches, that can trigger spats as sometimes her elders don't appreciate the sniffing and mounting, and if they growl she'll have a pop at them.