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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Attraction of castrated males.
- By setterlover [gb] Date 29.12.14 15:32 UTC
Please can anyone tell me whether it is usual or not for a young (nearly 1 year), entire male to be attracted to castrated males?  On our  last 3  walks my young dog has disappeared, chasing and trying to hump a castrated male. It was a different dog each time and each owner has said that it has happened before with other dogs.  He knows they are there even before I have seen them.

Any advice, short of neutering or keeping my boy on the lead for the whole walk, would be appreciated. I know recall is important but he totally ignores me in these circumstances.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 29.12.14 15:58 UTC
Unfortunately castration, especially early (pre-pubescent) castration, prevents dogs developing properly and they never smell 'right' to other dogs and give off the wrong pheromones. This confuses other and often results in them being treated more like in-season bitches.
- By Hethspaw [gb] Date 29.12.14 16:47 UTC
Unfortunately castration, especially early (pre-pubescent) castration, prevents dogs developing properly and they never smell 'right' to other dogs and give off the wrong pheromones. This confuses other and often results in them being treated more like in-season bitches.

I agree with that, theres more if's, but's & don't know's about this early castration trend & its potential multiple various consequences than any proven or firmly established advantages.
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- By Hethspaw [gb] Date 29.12.14 16:53 UTC
OP
Please can anyone tell me whether it is usual or not for a young (nearly 1 year), entire male to be attracted to castrated males?  On our  last 3  walks my young dog has disappeared, chasing and trying to hump a castrated male. It was a different dog each time

At your own dogs age it is 'normal' for him, dogs are a man made synthetic species & things such as you describe are 'normal' for him, maybe millions of others, maybe no others.

The real problem is not his behaviour with the dogs you describe the problem is that you have not trained an effective recall with distractions, that is the real problem, it is potentialy life threatening.
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- By tinar Date 29.12.14 17:17 UTC Edited 29.12.14 17:31 UTC
We had almost the opposite experience - though he didn't often come around our house when he did my sisters neutered male cocker-spaniel used to target and hump my mum's entire Bernese Mountain Dog when he was young (or sitting down!) - in that circumstance we are pretty sure it was an issue of domination - it resolved itself when our Bernese decided enough was enough one day - stood up and gave a stern sounding growl (the only time I ever remember our Bernese actually growling) and it never happened again. (my sisters cocker although neutered was the older of the two dogs and likely the cause of the wish to remain the dominant dog - and our bernese put up with it when he was young but took his stand as he hit 18 months).

It may be that your entire dog being so young is meeting other dogs, noticing that they aren't entire and is expressing dominance over them by humping too maybe? If so you must be careful since this can be an easy catalyst for a fight especially with two dogs in a park that don't know each other.  Like Hethspaw said - the humping is natural behaviour for him and for many dogs.  Often it is directed at owners that the dog wishes to dominate - so likely to also happen when an entire dog feels he should dominate a neutered dog too.

I think neutering of the young males definitely interferes with the normal smell of the dog and can possibly creates confusion in the dynamics and behaviour between dogs especially if one is young and hasn't figured out the smells of other dogs both entire and neutered or had little socialisation with other dogs.

I think you should stop the off lead walks - return your dog to the lead and not let him off until you are absolutely certain he will recall to you immediately despite any other dogs or distractions around - and later on when you feel you have that mastered,  never let him off the lead if he strays so far away that he is out of your line of sight and therefore your control.

He may well just adjust, outgrow or understand the smells of neutered dogs better with time as he himself matures.

(I'm not a trainer or anything so this is just my advice/opinion others will help more)
- By JeanSW Date 29.12.14 23:18 UTC

>He may well just adjust, outgrow or understand the smells of neutered dogs better with time as he himself matures.


This is a difficult one.  I'm not sure that the OP's dog can learn to understand what is "not normal."  A castrated male that has been neutered before they are old enough to produce testosterone is the problem.  They are never, ever going to smell like a male.  A dog is never going to be able to work that one out.  It probably smells like a female to him.
- By MsTemeraire Date 30.12.14 00:42 UTC

> in that circumstance we are pretty sure it was an issue of domination - it resolved itself when our Bernese decided enough was enough one day - stood up and gave a stern sounding growl (the only time I ever remember our Bernese actually growling) and it never happened again.


Humping isn't always about "domination". Aside from sexual connotations, it's a play behaviour gone haywire. A lot of dogs hump, and do it without
any concerns about taking over the universe.... :) It's usually an expression of extreme excitement/joy/stimulation (not sexual) and can be trained out. Very socially unsure dogs might use it as a form of behaviour, and in their case it's clearly not about getting one over (or a leg over!)... just a displacement behaviour of a dog that hasn't learned how else to express itself in other ways.
- By JeanSW Date 30.12.14 02:03 UTC

>Humping isn't always about "domination". Aside from sexual connotations, it's a play behaviour gone haywire. A lot of dogs hump, and do it without any concerns about taking over the universe


My elderly Beardie was never, ever a dominant bitch.   When she was younger, if humping was on the menu, it meant that she was really, really excited.

She never got it quite right though.  I would be stood at the sink washing up, and I would feel her enormous paws on my shoulders.  She started to hump, but the action lacked finesse.  It was more an excited "Tigger" type bouncing up and down.  She never did it to another dog.  And I knew that I could wind her up with an excited voice to "get her going."

Bless her.  :-)  :-)
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 30.12.14 13:45 UTC
I'd suggest part of this is because he wants to be doing this, but rather than risk being told off by a bitch who isn't in season, or getting into a fight with another entire male, a castrated male is a 'safe option'.   Could also be the castrated male is sending off an odd scent, and body language (never rule that out) may be confusing your young dog.

Whatever the case, he should be under your control, which means he shouldn't have the chance to be running off and being a darned nuisance.   Don't be rough on him over this, he's doing what comes 'natural', but correct this behaviour.   Castrated males can become a target, and that's sad because more often than not, they don't know how to defend themselves and have to put up with all that

There no need, necessarily, to keep him on a lead for the entire walk - just have eyes out of the back of your head, and when another dog appears on the scene, call him and put him on a lead until he's learnt how to behave!!   No need to neuter either.   Neutering only prevents puppies.   Training prevents unwanted behaviour.
- By setterlover [gb] Date 30.12.14 22:20 UTC
Many thanks for the advice and info given.  Comments about males being castrated early certainly make sense. I don't feel this is a dominance issue but a sexual one. His hormones are obviously making themselves felt and he is getting mixed messages. I said in my original post I am aware of the importance of recall and we have being doing very well up to now. It's a bit of Hobson's choice. How do I train him to respond to me when I don't have those sorts of distractions at home?
- By Hethspaw [gb] Date 31.12.14 04:49 UTC Edited 31.12.14 04:51 UTC
How do I train him to respond to me when I don't have those sorts of distractions at home?

The 'red light' green light or "leave/out" command is the foundation of that exercise - links below demos some of the hundreds of thousands on youtube, the first one is a seasoned dog but an adequate, text only, with real life emergency incident example at the end.

red light green light exercise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42tNOWAbEE8

Numerous red light green light exercise demo's
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dog+training+red+light+green+light
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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Attraction of castrated males.

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