Hi all. I have an 18 month old cocker who has been living with us since 7 weeks. I have an 11 yr old daughter and a 4 yr old son and a cat. We live a busy life but Barney is involved in most of it. He is fine to be left. He's caged at night and in the car when travelling and in a large PEN if we have to leave him alone during the day. He has two set meal times and knows he can escape to.his cage if he needs space. He has a dog flap to the garden. He is allowed on the sofa but not upstairs.
So that's the background. He has been pushed too far by my son with his bones and now can snap if the kids go near when he has a bone. They no this and I tried my best for it not to get this far but sadly it does. That is the only aggression that he's shown. On Wed night he stayed with the kids at my ex's house and apparently acted odd. He hid under the table and snarled when they tried to encourage him out. On Thursday when he came home he was lethargic and quiet. He hasn't eaten since Thursday am. He has pooped and has smelly tarts so probably has an upset tummy. In the car cage yesterday a friend's daughter went to tickle his head thru the cage like we always do and he snarled! Today he got between the fence and the play house and I squeezed down to try and help him out and he got very aggressive! I've just taken him to the vets who said he's medically ok. Now I'm very concerned about the aggression. We don't have any recommended behavioural its close by and I don't know that everyone deals with the same behaviour s. Any ideas. Thanks x

He has been pushed too for  by my son with his bones and now can snap if the kids go near when he has a bone. They no this and I tried my best for it not to get this far but sadly it does

There's no sadly about this.   This is YOUR responsibility and YOU have allowed this to happen.    If a child can't or won't learn to respect a dog,  then the child and dog should be separated until the child can be trusted.   It really is that simple.   As you have now found,  your dog now doesn't trust your children and feels the need to defend himself against them.

It's good that you are now listening to your dog,  but to be honest,  it sounds like he has had to escalate his warnings because you've ignored his discomfort and his warnings.    It may seem random to you,  but it doesn't seem random to me at all.

Harsh to be told,  I know,  but it's no good pussyfooting around,  you are now in a situation where you really must do something before anything else happens.   

I would recommend you get a qualified animal behaviourist in to observe what is going on and devise a way of proceeding that is suitable for your particular situation.    

  http://www.apbc.org.uk/apbc

http://www.apdt.co.uk/ 

I'm not sure which of these would be better to approach,  but there are people here who have experience with them and would be able to advise.

I would be very wary of just getting a trainer in unless they are qualified and registered,  the last thing you want is to make a bad situation worse ;-)

Yes I was thinking down the behaviours lines but think yr post a little harsh! I tried my best to stop this but up try knowing where a dog and child is 24/7! I no what happened is wrong and put things into place as soon as I realised it was happening. I can on here for some advice not to be slated!

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Yes I was thinking down the behaviours lines but think yr post a little harsh! I tried my best to stop this but up try knowing where a dog and child is 24/7! I no what happened is wrong and put things into place as soon as I realised it was happening. I can on here for some advice not to be slated!

I'm sorry you think you have been "slated" but I have to agree withDill on this. It is your responsibility alone to control all interactions between your dog and your children. You have 2 children and 1 dog, it's not rocket science to control them. I have 4 children ( all grown up now) and I can assure you that not once ever were my children allowed to torment my dogs. Your dog now has a deep fear of your children which you may or may not to able to rectify. As you have already stated you have been unable to control the situation up to now how do you propose to manage it from now on?

You may not like what I've written,  but you aren't being slated.

When I had my first Bedlington Terrier,  my youngest child  was 21/2 and I had to know where they both were 24/7!

Then 4 years later,   I bred my first litter.   Child was 6 at the time and totally knew what was allowed and what not.   Not bad for a child with suspected hyperactivity and other problems.   I also had a teenager and she and her friends were far more difficult to train regarding the pup/dogs.

I was also mostly on my own as OH worked 26 hour shifts then came home to sleep.   He had 2 days off every 3 weeks if he was lucky.

I do know what it's like,  I've lived it myself ;-)     I've also seen what can happen with a Cocker that hasn't been brought up right.   Believe me,  you  don't want to get any further down that road than you already are.

On Wed night he stayed with the kids at my ex's house and apparently acted odd. He hid under the table and snarled when they tried to encourage him out. On Thursday when he came home he was lethargic and quiet. He hasn't eaten since Thursday am. He has pooped and has smelly tarts so probably has an upset tummy. In the car cage yesterday a friend's daughter went to tickle his head thru the cage like we always do and he snarled! Today he got between the fence and the play house and I squeezed down to try and help him out and he got very aggressive! I've just taken him to the vets who said he's medically ok.

It sounds like he has definitely got issues with children now -I've seen it happen as well, a dog I own was puppy walked by the MOD by a family with four young children, and something clearly happened there as she now really dislikes children.

As he had an upset stomach on Thursday and was at your ex's house on Wednesday, I'd wonder if he was given (or stole, or something was accidentally dropped) something to eat that upset his stomach -that would easily explain that bit. He hid under the table and snarled -did he have anywhere else to hide where he could feel safe? You mentioned that at home he has a cage and also a dog flap. With the kids then trying to coax him out, it sounds to me like he was scared and felt cornered. There is nothing much more dangerous than a scared dog that is cornered, so you need to teach your kids that if the dog growls, they are to walk away and leave him alone -he is being good and warning them that he needs space. If he hides away, let him.

Growling in the cage in the car -sounds like the person who tried to touch him was also a child? He's now had bad experiences and the cage is a safe place but again he is cornered when it is shut and in the car, so he was again saying that he wanted to be left alone. If growling is ignored over and over he will have no other choice but to bite, so again best now to not let anyone touch him when he is in a cage. When he got stuck and you tried to help him, again it was fear -he was cornered again and now has bad experiences of this and simply did not realise you were only trying to help.

You DO need a good behaviourist, ideally one that can come to your house. But in the meantime, the main thing to do is give the dog more space, tell the kids to leave him alone and wait for him to approach them rather than the other way around. If needs be make use of more gates -you can get extra tall child/dog gates that a 4 year old will not be able to reach to open.

Barneybear,

Please don't underestimate the urgency of this situation.   You do need a behaviourist to come to your home and assess as a matter of urgency.

Your dog may only be growling/snarling at your own children,  and the odd snap if he's got a bone or  snarfed some  food -  hopefully this won't happen but Cockers live for their stomachs,  but he may  not be as inhibited with other children..

Children other than your own two are far more likely to be bitten,  as they won't necessarily understand he isn't  comfortable with children,  and the dog will not necessarily hold back as he will with his own family children.

I feel that your situation has been allowed to escalate way past something that you could handle.  No good waiting until dog needs to be PTS after savaging a child (just from fear.)

I remember well having a family coming to have a look at pups, and I was trying to advise the parents what could and couldn't be allowed.  They obviously knew nothing about dogs, as they said that was exactly why they were getting a dog.  FOR THE KIDS TO PLAY WITH.  I suggested they try Toys R Us and they did not get a puppy from me.  Children are too scatty until a certain age.  I now refuse to home a pup to anyone with children under 12 years old.

Your dog does sound very frightened, and doesn't know what to do about it.

If you have a cage and he is happy in it, then bones should be given in there, and when the dog is in his safe place he is left in PEACE...it should be a golden rule, and really TBH I wouldn't have thought that difficult to implement.

I refused a homecheck to a couple with a 7 year old boy, because I could see, just from the child's behaviour and the way the parents 'didn't' manage it, that it would be a case of when, not if, any dog....however good the temperament....would bite this child.  I just don't understand why there is a belief that dogs should tolerate any behaviour and be happy with it.  This is why rescue centres implement their rehoming policies regarding children, and although people complain about it, but there is a damned good reason.

Someone said you don't want to get any further down this road, and I sorely agree. If you are unable to manage your children's behaviour, the dog would be better in another home, because he is on a dangerous path, through no fault of his own.

Sorry, but sort your kids out before you slate your dog.

This is not RANDOM aggression. 

The dog gets defensive in situations where he cannot get away or is cornered, he has no/lost trust in you and your kids.

Some dogs are just much more sensitive than others.

I had my first dog of a he4rding breed when my children were small, toddler then newborn.  She adored the kids but found it hard to cope with too much, and when we had other peoples children round I could see her start to get uncomfortable and she would be allowed to take herself upstairs.  children were never allowed to follow her, or go near her bed or other resting place.

My next dog came when one was pre school and the other a toddler barely walking.

This breed are far more emotionally/mentally resilient and more able to cope with the stress of a lot going on kids etc, the rules stayed the same but the dogs actually preferred to stay in the thick of things (watched of course) and even then if other peoples kids were around they went out to play outside and the dogs stayed with me.

Hi all. I have an 18 month old cocker who has been living with us since 7 weeks. I have an 11 yr old daughter and a 4 yr old son and a cat.
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He has been pushed too far by my son with his bones and now can snap if the kids go near when he has a bone.

It sounds like you have a long hard road ahead to get things right.

The only thing you seem to have going is that because he is a cocker you might be able to find a gundog trainer who can help you. Clearly you need some specialist advice before its way to late, to time consuming & to expensive to do anything to reverse so much.

I think your very best bet is to get in touch with cocker rescue & ask them to give you some people who might take the dog on, they should have leads as they are a prevention organization & I assume they may be in touch with, or know of, gundog folk who can help you.

Another bit of advice is a warning to avoid those commercial organisations trainers & behaviourists who have earned themselves an appalling reputation, dissatisfactions with the commercial organizations below are all over the net, seem on a par with those old back street garages standards.

Try these - Working cocker spaniel rescue, I hope they will give a lead to a cocker gundog cocker trainer
http://tinyurl.com/mlp3vxw

Maybe more important advice is that you have the greatest caution about these organisations members.

Google search results - APBC David Ryan (director)
http://tinyurl.com/psryj2x

Youtube search results - APDT uk
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=apdt+uk

APDT UK & APBC - "as much use as a chocolate watch" Banger (ex champdogs member)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ1xr-7my7U
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I would be very wary of going to a gundog trainer - sadly many of them are still very old school in their training and use very harsh methods and that will not help here.

In any case, this is a resource guarding issue combined with lack of trust - this is not a basic training or gundog issue.  What this dog needs is a decent behaviourist, his breed is ultimately irrelevant.

I think barneybear should be praised for asking for help.  What's done is done.  She knows there's a problem.   I would suggest she gets the dog re-homed by Dogs Trust or similar as soon as possible.  Or, at least ask for their advice if they are full.

I think barneybear should be praised for asking for help.  What's done is done.  She knows there's a problem.   I would suggest she gets the dog re-homed by Dogs Trust or similar as soon as possible.  Or, at least ask for their advice if they are full.

I think you make an excellent point, at the end of the day if someone did see the dog & did a 110% sucessful job with the dog they would still only be dealing with the dog, whats described is is an entire family & dog problem with a 4 year old human involved.
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I would suggest she gets the dog re-homed by Dogs Trust or similar as soon as possible.

And pass the problem that they have caused on to others?  

I doubt the Dogs Trust would take a dog with fear aggression, so the only way to get them to take the dog is not tell them.

Putting unsuspecting new owners and any children in danger!

Hardly the actions of a responsible person :(

Hopefully, by now Barneybear has found a behaviour counsellor who is helping them with the problem.