Hi everyone.  I can't sleep, I can't stop crying.  I hope it's okay to share what happened to my little Westie Edgar.  He was 14 years old but still very stoic and spritely.  Our vet had given me ACP to give to him (10mg) for his anxiety during storms (he would have severe anxiety and nothing would settle him and where we live, storms bang into us.... so I had asked her about what I could do for him when he was literally climbing the walls at the mere sound of distant thunder... ) she had assured me it was safe for his age - I asked her three times during the consult if it was safe for him given his age.  She told me 'yes it's standard'.  She did not do any tests on his heart.  That consult was 3 months ago...

We had a storm coming on Monday night, my husband suggested to give Edgar the tablet as the storm looked like a big one.  He gave him the prescribed tablet at 5pm.  Edgar started showing laboured breathing within an hour of the tablet I noticed, I rang the vet surgery owner (who is also a vet) at about 8.00pm on the after hours number as I was concerned about Edgar's reaction to the tablet - he dismissed my concerns and told me it was fine and that I should just 'watch him'.  I asked him, "the tablet won't hurt him will it, it won't kill him will it?'.  He told me "no no no... it's a standard sedative".  He told me it would settle over night.

The next day I watched over Edgar but felt he was not improving, so took him back to the surgery and saw the owner (who had told me not to worry the night before).  He took his time looking Edgar over, said things like "Hmmm, I'm not sure... Hmmm  Hmmmm" and then listened to his heart - with that he immediately looked concerned, told us Edgar needed emergency care and that he could not help Edgar, and we should take him away to an emergency clinic.  It was surreal, it was hard to comprehend - this was the same guy I had spoken to the night before who told me 'no no no it's standard....'.  His surgery had prescribed the drug, now he was telling me to take my sick dog away.

We immediately went to an emergency clinic where they put him on oxygen and he seemed to improve, but once taken away from oxygen, he eventually deteriorated to the point he couldn't hold his head up to drink and breathing was a struggle.  By Wednesday he was no longer holding his little head up and his breathing went from stable to difficult, he began letting out a little cry when he took a breath and once he showed me that, I took him immediately to a different vet who I had speaking to over the phone that day.  He had told me that he had seen dogs 'come back' from ACP after a few days and that had given me hope, but Edgar had deteriorated so rapidly by Wednesday afternoon, he was moaning with every breath, it was very difficult to believe he could 'come back'.  The vet euthanised him on Wednesday afternoon.  That tablet had been a death sentence.

I have since learnt of the dangers of ACP - I had no idea and unfortunately stupidly trusted my vet even after I had asked her a number of times if it was safe to give to him.  My little boy Edgar was just 10kg, and 14 years old.  From what I understand now, I don't believe that tablet should have ever been prescribed for him.  My husband is now not only mourning but also full of guilt that 'he' was the one who suggested to give him the tablet, and gave it to him - which had been sitting in the cupboard for 3 months like a ticking time bomb.... - and of course I am full of guilt because I had asked about 'calming' him during storms and brought the damned tablets home in the first place.  I'm also struggling with the fact that I let the owner of the vet surgery dispel my concerns on that Monday night when I rang concerned and he 'disarmed me' assuring me all was fine and that the drug was perfectly fine to have given him.  I feel now I should have taken Edgar immediately to the emergency that Monday night the minute he showed me signs of agitation and a change in his breathing, and perhaps early intervention might have saved Edgar in time for him to pull through.  I don't know if it would've changed the outcome or not, but I wished I hadn't trusted that vet.  Edgar had often showed 'panting' and anxiety generally as he was prone to it since he was a puppy... so again I was trusting the vet in his certainty that the 'drug' was fine and wasn't sure if it was a combination of the storm and Edgar's general anxiety about it.

The vet who actually prescribed the tablet has refused to speak with me - I have called asking to speak with her and she has not called me back.  I have only had the 'owner' of the surgery call me back, and when I try to speak to him about the drug ACP and question the wisdom of the vet who prescribed ACP in the first place without any prior testing on Edgar, he just bullies me over the phone, completely talks over me, and blatantly refuses to speak about the tablet saying "I'm not going to discuss the tablet" and "this would've happened to your dog anyway - regardless of the tablet". 

I would say it's likely that little Edgar had a congenital heart condition that had not been detected, but that is all the more reason why this drug should not have been 'blindly' prescribed to him.  I'll never know how much longer Edgar had to live, but there is no doubt that a single ACP tablet killed him.  We had given it to him 5pm Monday - he was dead by 5pm Wednesday.  Prior to that, he was a spritely little old bloke who loved to sit in the sun on the grass.  And he didn't have to die like that, this week.  I miss him so terribly and I'm so deeply sorry that I let him down. I'm really struggling with his death, I feel terribly responsible for what happened to him, and angry at my own stupidity for trusting the vet surgery and I'm angry at the way they have treated us.

I know I can't bring Edgar back, but I don't think what's happened to us is right, and I'm wondering if anyone has some advice or words of comfort??

Thanks for reading my way too long post - sorry about that.

My boy was given ACP daily after a recent accident to keep him calm. He is a very boisterous boy and any upset or anxiety would make the problem worse. He was on ACP for 2 weeks and I have to say this saved his life. I had got to the stage where I would have had him PTS to avoid any more suffering. He is now fine and back to normal. Please do not beat yourself or your vet up about this. It is a normal sedative which is given as a matter of course. In Edgar,s case, it may not have worked but who knows, this could have happened anyway due to his age. Sorry for your loss. Blame is part of the grieving process, try not to let it colour your good memories of your lovely boy.

I have had a very similar experience not with that drug, but with a strong allergic reaction which nearly killed a very young dog, and a vet who subsequently simply said "it can't have been that", when there is no doubt at all that that's what it was.

I'm afraid vets are terribly unaccountable, as are animal drug manufacturers.

It's not your fault that you trusted the vet though. What else can you do? You checked several times. The vet let you and your dog down. 

Huge commiserations.

I can't offer advice, but I feel your deep love for Edgar.  I am so very, very sorry that this has happened. 

And I am firm in my belief that he will be there waiting for you at Rainbow Bridge when the time comes.

They leave paw prints on your heart don't they.   Jean  xx

I'm so sorry you lost your boy and having been in a situation where I walked a reasonably fit dog into the vets and she died there overnight I totally understand it feels much worse when you think it could've been avoided.
I know it will take time to come to terms with your loss, eventually you'll be able to remember the good times.

I too am so sorry about your boy and you are clearly suffering. However, he was a good age and it might be that his heart simply gave out or that in some way the severe anxiety around the storm, as well as a side effect of the ACP, triggered something that was likely to happen anyway.

It is a fact that any drug can have side-effects and it would be impossible to know in every case exactly what they might be. You followed expert advice on what was right for your dog as, I am sure, did your vets. You did everything you could. Guilt and recrimination are common things in grief and perhaps it would help if you spoke about this to a grief counsellor at somewhere like the Blue Cross http://www.bluecross.org.uk/2083/pet-bereavement-support-service.html.

The feelings of losing a pet, especially when you feel that in some way your actions or decisions have hastened their death can be utterly overwhelming and it can really help to talk out what you are going through with an expert in these matters. They will also probably know more about ACP and its effects and this may help you to resolve some of your doubts.

There can always be the possibility of some extraordinary side-effect that is simply beyond the knowledge of all. Alas, we do not have ultimate control over life and death, despite our best efforts. It is natural to try to control events to save those we love but the sense of control can often be an illusion, vets are not gods and sometimes they do get it wrong, not through negligence but simply because not all the factors can be known, it is often highly educated guesswork based on best practice and the balance of probability.

I once knew a woman who was given valium to calm her nerves and it sent her into an extreme manic episode that resulted in serious injury, it was a highly unusual reaction to the drug.

I also wanted to add that after the death of Dr Sophia Yin I was shocked to discover that Veterinary medicine has one of the highest suicide rates across any social group, so perhaps the pressures to get it right every time are simply too great. I do believe that most go into this line of work because they care about animals.

Try the bereavement line. Many of us here know how devastating it is to have a pet put to sleep let alone what you have experienced, so please do not feel that heartfelt sympathy is lacking. I hope you find some peace in the coming months.

One of my cocker spaniels had a dreadful reaction to ACP, she started fitting within 1/2 hour of having the drug, I spoke to my vet who gave her the drug and he said he had never heard of any reaction to ACP.  Went back 4 weeks later to see another vet, different dog, and he said it's common for some dogs to react to ACP, at one stage she was eating her dinner and just dropped to the floor, food stuck in her throat, I had to put my fingers down her throat to clear her airways, during the fit she clamped onto my hand hitting bone, she was only 3 at the time, so not an old dog, second vet told me boxers are more prone to fits with ACP, I automatically stopped giving the drug and she thankfully was fine

I've now made sure that ALL my dogs have a note on their records to not administer ACP, our new vet says they no longer use this drug

So sorry for your loss

"I've now made sure that ALL my dogs have a note on their records to not administer ACP, our new vet says they no longer use this drug"

I totally agree SharonM. When any of my dogs need an anaesthetic I discuss and have agreement with the Vet beforehand that no ACP will be used as a pre-medication in my particular breed which I know is at risk with this drug. As an additional precaution I write this fact on the consent form before I sign it. If ACP is used in that Veterinary Practice I am very happy to pay extra for a more modern and expensive pre-medication. I have known a small portion shaved off the side of a 10mg. tablet make a dog of 30kg weight unable to stand.

If I am given a drug to administer to my dog and I am not familiar with it I always check carefully on the NOAH Compendium so that I know exactly what I am given the drug for, plus the contra-indications and warnings which the Vet might have missed in connection with my dog. Also that I have the right dosage for the weight of that dog.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Novartis_Animal_Health_UK_Ltd/ACP_Tablets/-27828.html

ACP Tablets
Dosage and administration
0.25-3 mg per kg bodyweight by oral administration

Thank you so much 'dogsbody100' and everyone for your kind and comforting words.    I very much appreciate it...  I'm quite depressed and still so sad, struggling with what happened, guess I'm in shock he's gone.  He was doing so well everyday in his general health prior to the tablet.

Thank you for the NOAH suggestion and link - that is wonderful.  I thought the other day... if only I had researched that drug and had not just trusted the vet....  Of course, if I had wanted to be assured it was a safe drug, I would've found that... and if I wanted to find out it could be dangerous, I would've found that too... the internet is great but it can mislead you depending on what you're looking for and why.  Which is why I really appreciate this forum - I feel after reading the posts, you get a much better picture of what outcomes can be.  I wish I had found THIS forum a week ago...

And as an added issue, during the last days of Edgar's life, the emergency vet had blurted out to euthanise Edgar and say our 'goodbyes' in front of my children, without any warning to me.  My little 6 year old boy just burst into tears... it was very distressing and very difficult once the vet had said that, and I found I had to not only worry about little Edgar and the fatal decision that had just been put to me, but I also had to worry about my two children who were very upset.  To make matters worse, when I asked to see Edgar, by the time the vet brought him back to 'say goodbye'... he had improved after oxygen treatment - breathing normally, sitting up and drinking. So it was impossible to agree to euthanise at that point... he looked like he might actually come good and I HAD to give him the chance, much to the relief of my very sad little boy who just kept asking 'why can't we just take him home mommy'.  I was amazed that a vet would do that, in front of little children.  Death is hard enough to comprehend as a child, let alone the concept of 'euthanasia'. Of course Edgar then deteriorated the next day, and my children understood he needed to go back to the vet, but this time they could see he wasn't well and said goodbye to him as my husband drove him away.  I'm glad I gave Edgar that extra chance, and that my children were able to understand a little more of what was going on and that we didn't give up on Edgar through all of it.

Thank you again for all your information and words of comfort.   We do have a younger King Charles Cavalier, so now that I know that you're here, I'll be checking in now and then x  I'm just giving him lots of love and cuddles as he's lost his best friend of 9 years.

Thank you all so very much x

Sorry for your loss. Easyer said than done but you have nothing to feel guilty about, you did your best for him, u took him to the vets and trusted what you were given and then sought help when u knew something wasn't right.
I'm sure you have him a good life and he would have know how much you loved him.

It won't be any help for Edgar but I was told that if someone pet has a reaction to meds you can ask your vet for a form to fill in to send to the drug company lodging the reaction. Can't rember what the form is called now, May help save another.

Hi, I am so sorry for what you went through and how you are feeling now.......I know just what your feeling and I had a very similar thing just a few weeks ago. my girl was given ACP/Vetergesic mixed as a sedative for xrays.......cutting a long story short (its all on rainbow bridge if you wish to read it all) I brought her home from the vets sedated and she never was able to shake off the sedation and died in my arms 7 hrs later.......I too have questioned the drugs especially in my breed (ddb) and she was nearly 7 which I know wont sound old to you but for her breed she is considered 'older'.

All the questions in your head afterwards and the what ifs are awful but you just like me tried to do the best for your dog...............please don't beat yourself up.....I have but when I read your story it makes me sad to think you feel such guilt as you really shouldn't, you loved him and gave him the best......he couldn't of asked for more than that x

What a terribly sad story and once again, having met with some doozies since moving down to the West country, once again just makes me wonder what's being taught in Vet Schools these days.   Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but why oh why, given his age, didn't they CHECK before prescribing this.   There are other remedies for stress from storms and fireworks, known events, available that don't include any drugs.   Kalm Aid is one.   Your treatment after this happened is terrible too.   I would say that before we found our super vet up near Cambridge, who we were with for 13 years, we had a shocking experience at the hands of another vet (Senior Partner in that practice at that) who delayed doing the C.Section I'd taken my bitch in to have done.   Suffice to say after losing 5 of her 9 puppies and jolly nearly her too, we sued.   We decided to settle out of Court (how do you quantify the loss of 5 puppies from a litter out of a Ch.bitch ex a visiting Am.Ch. male in any case, plus he'd gone back to the States already too) but at least it would have caused his insurance to increase!!!

I'll have to ask about whether ACP is used by the Practice I now go to, if/when mine have to have surgery.   I know stuff happens, but what should have been done before and afterwards can't be denied.    So sorry for you.

Some dogs simply cannot cope with the intense stress and fear that fireworks bring on without strong medical help - but ACP should NEVER be that help, it is in no way suitable and I am so frustrated that it is still being prescribed for this :-(

If something must be given, there are other short or long term options with less side effects.  ACP however is wholly inappropriate for this sort of thing.

MsMolly I am so, so sorry for your loss.  Please don't blame yourself for this - your dog should never have been given that awful drug.

Ms Molly, when you are feeling a bit stronger perhaps you should write to your vet and express your reservations about treatment options and dismay at how you were treated afterwards. At least then there will be something on the record and they might be forced to reconsider use of the drug in future. You could also copy it to their professional body.

I do think that it is despicable that the vet that gave the drug refused to speak to you about it afterwards, the practice is clearly now behaving in a defensive way and may fear litigation.

Again, you did everything you could, both in seeking and following your vet's advice. it seems that perhaps an error of judgement was made by one of them, that was not your mistake and beyond your control. Perhaps writing a letter may give you a little respite, in the sense that you can try to stop the practice using the drug in this way again.

ACP is a big no no for Boxers as it causes issues with their hearts.
This has been well documented and most vets should be aware not to use it on Boxers.
As to other breeds and their sensitivities to this drug I'm not 100% sure.

I'm so sorry that you lost Edgar - thinking of you.