Well an elderly couple that I go to 6 days a week have major health problems and last yr the wife had to go to hospital for heart surgery which meant her husband had to go into respite care. They had an old jack russel x that the dog walker was going to look after. Long story cut short, the nephew took the dog to the cinnamon trust for re homing without even asking if the couple wanted to give him up (very naughty). Since then the lady has been looking for another elderly dog but quite rightly no rescue would allow her to have a dog. I walked in on Sat morning to be met by a tiny puppy!It's a sweet little thing, looks like a yorkie and is so tiny it fits in my hand.  The wife had seen an ad in the paper, rang up about it and the stupid "breeder" delivered said puppy to the house took the cash and ran. This puppy is going to outlive the pair of them but did the "breeder" care? nope, so long as they had the cash that was all they cared about. This puppy is supposed to be 9 weeks old but I think it is younger. Guess I will one day end up picking up the pieces.

Oh dear Lorraine thank goodness you are around to help but a ridiculous situation all the same.

Yes it's awful and at the end of the day it's poor puppy that pays the price. The man has cancer and she has bi polar and dementia. It's the nephews fault for getting rid of Jake in the first place, he was no trouble and would have just plodded on. But he wanted rid and as she was in hospital for longer than expected he got rid of him without her permission. She has been very upset ever since and has tried all sorts of rescues to get another dog. Yes she is happy but that's not the point. This morning I took some of my old puppy toys and I am giving her lots of advice re how to care for this little chap and I'm in there 6 days a week to keep an eye on things but oh how I would love to tear a strip off the idiot that let her have him!

Oh Lorraine what a position . I hope they can take some of what you tell them on board but as you say with their health conditions particularly hers that's going to so hard. 
Stupid nephew  :( and even more stupid an greedy breeder ( I use that word advisedly) now puppy is at risk although I can see you wont let that happen if its within your power
thinking of you

She has been very upset ever since and has tried all sorts of rescues to get another dog.

Did she try the Cinnamon Trust to get the dog back, seeing as he cannot have been surrendered legally? Just curious. What an awful nephew. :(

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Did she try the Cinnamon Trust to get the dog back, seeing as he cannot have been surrendered legally? Just curious. What an awful nephew. :-(

<img title="Quote selected text" class="qButton" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" />

<a href="http://www.champdogs.co.uk/" />

Yes she tried but they would not let her have him back. She rang them so many times pleading to let her have him back but they said he had already been re homed and was settled. They also said he was overweight (he was a bit) and she must of been feeding him rubbish! I know that was wrong as he had very good food just a bit too much lol. I told her to threaten them with legal action which she did but they still refused to hand him back. I know that in the end they gave her the runaround saying the lady who was dealing with it was on holiday then she was off sick and no one else could deal with it. Very naughty of them.

That's awful not good PR for cinnamon trust. I can understand why she has done what she has done . Hope that nephew keeps out of this

How very sad indeed. :(

What age is regarded as elderly?  Depending on the answer how do you know the puppy will outlive them?  For example the average life of a dog is 15 years so if they are 85 they could go together.  It's not like they have bought a large dog.
I don't know what the cinnamon trust is but I've known charities to put pets down even if money has been left it a will to care for them.

>For example the average life of a dog is 15 years so if they are 85 they could go together

How many people are capable of looking after even a tiny dog when they're 100?

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">What age is regarded as elderly

The lady is 85 and her husband is 89. Husband is classed as end of life due to cancer and wife has major heart problems. It is extremely unlikely that this puppy will die before they do. Neither of them have good mobility even in the house. Last October the wife fell while putting some rubbish in the dustbin and broke both wrists, she spent 2 months in plaster and gets a lot of pain in both wrists now. Trust me they are not in the best of health to start looking after a puppy.

I know a couple in very similar circumstances who, after their elderly cocker died, were sold a springer puppy! What sort of breeder does such a stupid thing? The puppy ended up being rehomed at 8 months.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> their elderly cocker died, were sold a springer puppy

I know! These people are only in it for the money, Time and time again they will breed from their sweet little family pet, giving all sorts of reasons for doing so when the only thing they really want is cash and to hell with the welfare of the puppies they created. Makes my blood boil!

Not just 'greeders'
some years ago a lady started coming to class with the pup she had got.............from Dogs Trust!!! she was in her 80s with limited mobility and they rehomed a 3/4 cross BORDER COLLIE with her !!!

tatty-ead I can beat that. Lady in her 80s with a 6 month old working Malinois pup from rescue! I think some rescues are no more interested in good homes than many BYBs and puppy farmers. All they want is to move dogs on.

The lady is 85 and her husband is 89. Husband is classed as end of life due to cancer and wife has major heart problems.

....and its a small dog most of which have a long life expectancy.
.

There is a 75 year old at my puppy training with a springer spaniel puppy. The Chap is completely bow legged and has terrible mobility. Every week i hold my breath thinking that dog is going to have him over. You can see the trainers diving in to stop them when she is wrapping herself around him.

I haven't asked him Where he got her from but can't believe a rescue would place such an energetic dog with such an elderly man.

There is a 75 year old at my puppy training with a springer spaniel puppy. The Chap is completely bow legged and has terrible mobility. Every week i hold my breath thinking that dog is going to have him over. You can see the trainers diving in to stop them when she is wrapping herself around him.

I haven't asked him Where he got her from but can't believe a rescue would place such an energetic dog with such an elderly man.

Lady in her 80s with a 6 month old working Malinois pup from rescue

you mentioning that reminded me, Lady in the next village had lost her old dog, she was in her mid 70s, about 5'2" and about 6 st..............
she had had a number of different breeds in her younger days and speaking to family she mentioned that she had never had a xxxxx

Son went out and bought her a surprise birthday present...........................a 3mth old Bloodhound puppy.................by the time it was 5 mth she had to pay someone to walk it as she couldn't hold it !!!

All these stories are heart breaking . what are people thinking of. An elderly person may be able to give a dog a good home  and when you look at some of the oldies that need homes with thought and effort the right dog could be rehomed to a lot of people  and have a happy retirement home but fgs not a young bouncy puppy

I couldn't agree more even then you need to be mindful. My Mum took on a Shih Tzu that we went on to inherit. very mellow, dog had her out for a walk one day and something spooked her. She cut across Mum who went over, broke both knees and after four months in hospital due to a bad reaction to morphine followed by numerous infections she passed away.

Poor wee dog.  Nope, that shouldn't have happened.

My neighbours are doing well with their rescue Lab/GSD/Siberian.  He was 78 when he got Lucy at 6 months old.  He was missing his little Schnauzer after her death due to old age about two years earlier.  His son is on tap to take Lucy if anything happens to him.  His girlfriend, now his wife, is the same age as him.  She lost her old cat early this year and has refused to even come see my kittens who need a home.   Since she and he are now 80 and a cat can live 20 years she does not want to have one out live her.  They are both very active, healthy, sane and energetic people and I bet people who don't know them would guess them both to be at least 10 years younger than they are. 

There, I just thought you'd like to hear a good old age story.  We were at their wedding last fall, the full she-bang you'd expect from 20 year olds.  :)

I'm sorry but coming from an 'older age' perspective, I cannot and won't look at an elderly couple and automatically say no puppy/dog!!    Nobody knows what has been put in place in the event the dog does outlive them (much as by what went before, it doesn't sound good - I doubt the Cinnamon Trust would have taken in the previous dog without doing a lot of research, speaking to the couple first - Google them, they are online).   We are not young and I'm always conscious of what might happen in the event I go first (my husband had a Stroke some years ago now and although 'okay' has some issues which may make it difficult for him to properly look after our current two - I have arranged for them to go back to their/one of breeders if necessary, or via the Cinnamon Trust indeed).    But I have made arrangements which were to some extent thrown into chaos with the unexpected death of my younger sister.

I was more worried about those we had that we'd bred - no outside breeder to pick up the pieces.

But my thought here is although in this particular case it may not be an ideal situation, just because people are getting up there in years, should NOT bar them from having a dog.   That would be very sad and I hate it that some Shelters won't even consider an application from an 'old person'.   Each case should, one would hope, be considered on it's merits.

>I'm sorry but coming from an 'older age' perspective, I cannot and won't look at an elderly couple and automatically say no puppy/dog!!

You beat me to it MamaBas! I was just about to say the same thing. I know a lot of 70+ year olds and some of them are fitter and more active than I am and they have 20+ years on me! Every case is different and it is wrong to assume that just because you are over a certain age you can no longer care for an animal :) With regards to The Cinnamon Trust - they do a fantastic job and I have been a supporter for many years. If you have not come across their work, please check them out - you may even be able to help :)

As for "nephew took the dog to the cinnamon trust for re homing without even asking if the couple wanted to give him up " - Cruelty takes on many forms and I think that is cruelty in the extreme.

It's a difficult subject I think.  On the one hand, yes, a lot of breeds do become unsuitable for most older people simply because of the strength issue - even the calmest dogs can have moments.  My old boy Remy (dobermann) was calm as anything, barely moved beyond a plod even before his disc went but if he saw a cat, he'd still have a good go at pulling towards it!  Couldn't do it mind, his back legs would just fold but there was still some strength there.

I already have it planned that when I can't hold my dobes any more (and it will happen someday, with the hypermobility and back trouble I have), as and when I lose them I will downsize to german pinschers and/or manchester terriers - similar look, just a bit smaller :-P

>Every case is different and it is wrong to assume that just because you are over a certain age you can no longer care for an animal.

I agree; but equally an elderly person (and I'm thinking 80+ here) are better suited to some breeds, and age of dog, than others. My 85 year old couple would have given a splendid home to an unwanted senior dog, but were utterly overwhelmed and out of their depth with a springer puppy, despite having had spaniels all their lives. Even the man told me that he'd have to live to be over 100 - and how realistic is that?

>the nephew took the dog to the cinnamon trust for re homing

Forgot to say, The Cinnamon Trust would probably have been able to offer a solution in this case, that allowed the dog to stay put. There is an elderly lady in my village that has a dog, but was struggling to exercise it (get it to the vets etc.) and The Cinnamon Trust were instrumental in getting her help with the dog, so that she could keep him :) I like to think that if that was me in my later years, someone would come to my aid to allow me to keep a much loved pet.

> equally an elderly person (and I'm thinking 80+ here) are better suited to some breeds, and age of dog, than others.

Totally agree.

It appears from the op comments that for some reason the cinnamon trust did not do there homework correctly and certainly did not speak to the real owners the elderly couple concerned, also when contacted they were not able to offer a solution and that clearly led to what has happened the lady getting a pup.
It may be the nephew told some untruths here we don't know and maybe the cinnamon trust were given misinformation but clearly this is a very sad case and thank goodness it looks like or op is going to the best she can even though its not her responsibility
I agree "elderly " whenever that starts should not mean no dog but each case on its merits. I know a very agile and fantastic person who has had gundogs all her life is at an age where she would consider "elderly " but still has her dogs and is very active in the breed. Infact many activities would not take place if it were not for her

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> I doubt the Cinnamon Trust would have taken in the previous dog without doing a lot of research, speaking to the couple first

I can assure you they did no "research" nor did they speak to the couple at any time before taking the dog and re homing him. The only contact that took place was when my lady phoned them on numerous occassions in an attempt to get her dog returned to her. They re homed the dog whilst she was in hospital recovering from heart surgery and her husband in a nursing home receiving respite care. She suffers from dementia but she is not stupid and there is no way she would have agreed to her dog being re homed. In fact as soon as she came home from hospital and found out jake had been handed to them she was on the phone to them. That was when she found out he had been re homed.

I hope the lady has disowned the nephew, what an incredibly cruel thing to do.

In my breed breed rescue is for both corgi breeds one old dear who has had corgi s for over sixty years now takes on senior rescue corgi s ten years plus who owners have died or gone in to residential care with the understanding that if anything happens to her the dog returns to breed rescue, living alone with no kids the dog is her reason for carrying on she is now on to her third dog with rescue paying vets bills she is happy and gives very old dogs their last month's or years in a caring loving home, she cannot walk very far but has a big garden the dogs have free run of, she is on her third dog in four years all have died of old age and does breed rescue a valuable service as rehoming older dogs with very limited life span left is quite hard, in her village a 50,s year old breed person also lives who helps her with getting to vets shopping etc

I know several people who have been refused help from these people & TBH their volunteers are good, but the actual organisers are a different thing altogether.

A terminally ill lady approached them with regard to her pets & was turned down-no reason given, but interestingly the lady had no money & would be leaving no estate-some of the things she was asked about by the "Trust". Her dogs fortunately were happily rehomed before she died by an ad hoc of friends involved in the activities she had enjoyed before her illness.

They should not have taken the dog in without it's owners written consent-not the first time I have heard of his BTW(straight from the legal owner BTW)

I have to say that although some have had good dealings with the Cinnamon Trust our experience was different. Several years ago we asked for help with walking our dogs  as my husband was bedbound with a terminal illness and needed 24hour care and I was his carer. Our hospice nurse recommended them to us and wrote a short report as to why we needed help and the probable length of time that help would be needed for.

We had two dogs at that time and just needed some help with walking them - no dog walkers in our area apart from one firm that I would never, ever use. We received an acknowledgement from them to our enquiry and were told they would be in touch with us as soon as possible to arrange for our dogs to be walked a couple of times a week. Despite contacting them again several times we never did hear back from them. I think it depends on the area you live in as to the response you get.

Knowing how useful it would have been to have had help myself when needed I have since offerred my services to them to offer help with dog walking for the terminally ill or people who need help but again have never heard back from them.

I guess all organisations have their good sides and bad but I must say that I am saddened to learn of so many cases of help being refused or worse, not even followed up. I would imagine that they are probably a victim of their own success:

"The Cinnamon Trust - helping 32,142 people a year with 41,342 animals and running two home from home sanctuaries costs - We need your help to make sure we're always there"

>In my breed breed rescue is for both corgi breeds one old dear who has had corgi s for over sixty years now takes on senior rescue corgi s ten >years plus who owners have died or gone in to residential care with the understanding that if anything happens to her the dog returns to breed >rescue, living alone with no kids the dog is her reason for carrying on she is now on to her third dog with rescue paying vets bills

Excellent! It just goes to show what can be achieved when people set their minds to it :)

In my breed breed rescue is for both corgi breeds one old dear who has had corgi s for over sixty years now takes on senior rescue corgi s ten years plus who owners have died or gone in to residential care with the understanding that if anything happens to her the dog returns to breed rescue, living alone with no kids the dog is her reason for carrying on she is now on to her third dog with rescue paying vets bills

What a fantastic idea!!!!! Nicest story I have heard for a long time. Win for the old lady, win for the old dogs, win for the rescue!

Interesting comments about the CT.   I decided to register my current two with them.   My husband had a stroke some years ago, and as I've said, without me being around may not be able to cope for them long-term.  He does exercise them (because it feel it's good for him to be out of the house getting some independent exercise, even if he has to take them separately as he carries a stick and can't handle two at one - A Basset and A Whippet?) but for the rest I have to nudge him constantly.   I honestly thought the CT would be able to arrange for somebody local to at least come in and meet us and our hounds in the event we/he needed help with them whilst staying here in his home.   I was told this wasn't possible!!  Is this just because of my area - I noticed the other day on the vet's Notice Board mention of the fact 'we have volunteers in this area'.   So bang goes that idea?   I would have felt far more comfortable to have somebody my two 'know' on hand, if needed........ if anybody has first-hand knowledge of this (even a CT rep.) I'd love to have a reply here.

I have, as I have also already said, made arrangements for them to go to their breeders (much as my Whippet's breeder has just moved to Brittany!!)   And either could go to Breed Rescue - much as I'd hope they could stay together.

The staff at Cinnamon Trust talk the talk, but in reality, ARE they as good as some think?

ARE they as good as some think?
About 8/10 years ago a dear friend of mine was starting to go downhill. She had 2 dogs - wolfhound/GSD about 8 who was an absolute gentle darling and a toy poodle about 9. she was concerned about their future and I helped her fill in CT forms.
She had a few spells in hospital and asked CT about temporary fostering - which is one of their 'selling points'. Got told No - not even a 'sorry but...' so the dogs were in kennels for varying lengths of time. She eventually passed and her son (who lived in Manchester) contacted CT ................only to be told 'they would have to stay in kennels for the foreseeable future as we are full' !
Son made the decision to go along with the kennel owner who had found a re-home for the poodle and had the big guy PTS.
Still feel bad that I had encouraged her to do the paperwork :-(

[she suffers from dementia but she is not stupid b]

The most succinct definition of dementia i have read to date!

Well they've had the puppy just over a week now. I have stocked them up with puppy food and have been sitting on the floor feeding him as just putting the food down and leaving him to it isn't working so at least I know he is having one good meal a day. He does eat during the day but mainly just picking at his food. He had his vaccinations on friday (vet came to the house) House training is non existent as the lady just is not quick enough (or observant enough) to get to him in time. I've given her loads of advice re house training and she does understand what I'm telling her but forgets as soon as I've gone! I've told her if anything happens to either of them I will take care of him for her. She said to me yesterday that she was so glad she had me as she wouldn't know what to do on her own. I've bought her a small brush and am teaching her how to groom him.

Have you considered looking at the option of litter box/weewee pad training the puppy? Since the lady obviously isn't going to be physically capable of taking a tiny puppy out every 15 minutes as the puppy needs that would at least isolate the mess to one area, would be easier for them to train and would probably keep things a bit more sanitary in the house.

Yes I had thought of that but she would still need to show puppy where "to go" and that's the real problem. If she were able to take him to the "wee pad" she could take him outside. Most of the time he just goes where he is. She can and does clean up the poos but the wees are too difficult for her to spot.

My sister who died in 2005 had two walkers from CT for her two dogs, they were marvellous.  They are to a large degree limited to what volunteers they have, in what numbers, and in what area.  My sister was very lucky. Just as an aside, one of her walkers was in his eighties himself, and liked to get out and keep fit, but didn't feel he should take on another dog of his own. When my sister died and I took her girl on, he asked me if he could still come and walk her once a week, as he had grown very fond of her over the years, and he did this for the 4 years she was with me until she died.  I heard from him recently that he has had to give up the dog walking, as he isn't fit enough to do it any more....he must be over 90 now!

There is certainly a place for older dogs to go to older people. I always think greyhounds are a good choice, as they are usually easy to walk, and easy to see (not easy to trip over like a tiny dog). We adopted an older girl from the Oldies Club recently (A GSD) and she would suit just about anybody - the definition of an easy dog. These rescue organisations need to put on their common sense hat from time to time.

"They should not have taken the dog in without it's owners written consent-not the first time I have heard of his BTW(straight from the legal owner BTW) ."

The Cinnamon Trust do not rehome dogs, you cannot just take a dog to the trust for rehoming. The Trust will only take a dog or any pet on by prior arrangement where the pet has been left to the trust in the owners will.

If a pet is left to the Trust the pet remains the property of the trust for the rest of its life and the trust will take on responsability for all the vets bills and expenses baring annual vaccinations and food. The trust will then try and find a long term foster family for the pet or if that is not suitable or practical then the trust have two sanctuaries where pets can go and be cared for by Cinnamon Trust staff.

Hi, I am not directly familiar with this case as I was not involved in it but one of the criteria is that we cannot help where there is an able bodied adult at the same address and that may or may not have been the situation in this case.

As to the posters you saw, when someone registers as a volunteer they are asked what they would like to help with be it cat care, dog walking, offering transport and running events etc. It is entirely possible that although there are volunteers in your area but not the type you actually need. Those posters are most often used to try and get dogs for walking as can often have volutneer dog walkers and no cases for them to walk on. Also it is possible that the poster is old and out of date but I doubt that as those posters are relatively new.

Welcome to the forum Cinnamon and thank you for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated :)

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><br />The Cinnamon Trust do not rehome dogs, you cannot just take a dog to the trust for rehoming. The Trust will only take a dog or any pet on by prior arrangement where the pet has been left to the trust in the owners will.

I do not know you or the position you hold at Cinnamon Trust but I can assure you that this couples dog was taken in by the Trust and homed without any pior arrangement and refused to give them their dog back. This caused my lady to suffer extreme distress over many months. I also forgot to mention that not only did they give her the "runaround" but on the final phone call to them she was told that Jack had died.

A horrible and sad situation and now there is a puppy involved. .
Looking at the website there are various different interpretations of how or why an animal may be in the trust and for how long and what would happen to it long term. I was just reading  between the lines and it does to me look like a scenario could arise where the dog could be passed to rescue and not actually rehomed by the trust. well done roscoebabe for what you are doing in this right nasty mess.

Just a quick update, puppy is now eating much better. House training is still sadly non existent. I can't see it changing till I end up with him lol. He is a happy little chappie and is getting braver by the day as today he made it up 5 steps of the stairs after me before I spotted him and rescued him. He waits by the front door for me when he hears me pulling onto the drive. My ladies mental health is not too good at the moment but her meds have been increased a couple of days ago so fingers crossed she will start to feel better soon.

Another quick update. My couple were both taken to hospital this afternoon. The wife had been complaining of chest pain and was taken to hospital for a check up but as husband could not be left alone the ambulance people took him as well. I had a phone call from the nephew 4 hrs later to see if I could go fetch puppy and look after him till they are back home. So I now have him at my house lol. He was really getting smelly due to food in his coat (yuk) so i have bathed him and introduced him to my lot. From being scared stiff of them he has been running around playing with them. I've set the smallest cage I have up in the lounge for when I cannot watch him. My dogs would not hurt him deliberately but one paw swipe could flatten him! House training begins in earnest tomorrow.

Well, you did say "until I end up with him!"  :-)  :-)

But it is so nice that he appears to enjoy the company of your dogs.  I fully realise that not everyone would wish to own more than one dog.  But when I see the interaction with my gang, I really get pleasure from it.  Kind of hoping now that you do end up with him.  :-)