Two years ago my dog died and I signed with Dogs Trust to rescue a dog.  I was told puppies were due to be born and I was put on the list and would be first in line.  Then when three were born I lost out as I was really fourth in line.  I eventually bought a puppy.  I still kept registering with Dogs Trust and saw a dog I liked and was told it was reserved and I was next in line.  It came back on for re-homing and then I lost out because I was fourth in line.  Last Thursday I asked about a dog but someone had already reserved so I was first in line.   Yesterday it was back for re-homing.  I telephoned immediately and was told it had already been reserved.  I said I was first reserve and the manager said I was fourth in line.   He didn't expect it to come back on so just keep looking.  The photograph does not show reserved this morning.
They are obviously telling me they don't want me and I'm wasting my time.

It does sound as if you are being side-lined for some reason - but far nicer would be for them to tell you the truth!!   On the other hand, perhaps if you WENT THERE, rather than use a phone/email etc., you might be more successful??   Whatever, I'd challenge all this 4th in line.   Odd

I usually go in once or twice a month as my supermarket is on the corner to see if any dog has arrived before it goes national. I know I'm picky because I have my other dog to consider.  You made me giggle when you said it would be nicer to be told the truth.   No one likes hearing the truth.  Especially not me.   I won't fight it as I would like to think it is going to a better home than I could give it.

They are obviously telling me they don't want me and I'm wasting my time.

Always being 4th in line is very dubious........

I think it looks that way especially if you call in approx twice a month to look around, gosh you're like a resident. :-) They should know you so well and knowing you not just by an e-mail or phone call enquirer should mean so much more and make you top of the list.

Think you need to ask them why you are not being considered, what the problem is, save you wasting your time and being upset by being 4th **scratching head** all the time, you are so keen and care enough to call in...... wonder what it is?

If you've got plenty of love, exercise, stimulation, food and time to offer a dog in need, makes you wonder............... (maybe you're not giving a big enough smile. **shrugging shoulders**  ;-)  )

I possibly go too often.  Maybe I'm suspicious.  I'll ease up.  You are only required to fill a form in every 6 months and telephone once a month unless you see 'your special' dog.  That is what the volunteer told me when she wrote first in line on my updated form.  I'm also near an RSPCA centre but they just deal in staffordshire bull terriers.

You are only required to fill a form in every 6 months and telephone once a month unless you see 'your special' dog. 

That all makes it sound like they are SHORT of dogs needing homes. Very odd indeed.

And this is why people give up trying to rescue and buy a 'cheaper' dog from byb than from a reputable breeder. Not saying that the op will do this but it does happen. How sad. You obviously sound like an ideal re-home prospect.

gsdowner you are partly right.  When I couldn't have one of the puppies I bought one.  Full pedigree, cost £650, wonderful girl.  There were no restrictions on her so I could breed from her and recoup my £650.  Obviously I'm not going to as I had her neutered at 6 months.  If I was irresponsible I could supply Dogs Trust with unwanted dogs! It's a circle. 
PS. They told me their dogs come from Ireland.

This buying or bringing dog in makes me very cross when in the next breath we are being told that thousands of dogs are being PTS because of the pure breed breeders.

When Rescues "buy in" their rescue dogs from Ireland, they are in effect financing the next generation of puppy breeders.    For this reason, I would not even look at a bitch from any centre that pays to "rescue" dogs.    Better by far to look at Breed Rescues.

>When Rescues "buy in" their rescue dogs from Ireland, they are in effect financing the next generation of puppy breeders

Absolutely!

It's also disingenuous, since we are being told that there are so many dogs in England and Wales in rescue that 'the rescues are full'
If the rescues are so full, how have they got room for bringing in Irish rescues?

It's starting to sound like the Rescue organisations have turned into dealers for the puppy farmers    At the very least, they are enabling the puppy farmers to keep selling to the people who discard their dogs !

I agree with Jackie H Margot and Dill I can't understand how rescues are full but dogs still come in from overseas

Not only do they bring in dogs from other countries they raise donations here and then collect 25pence in the pound from the taxes the government has collected from us.

By comparison I recently helped a friend find a rescue dog. Was amazed to see the dog on Thursday, fill form in Friday, hear from rescue sat,saw him sunday and he was home with my friend to start his new life by Sunday evening.
They had about 40 dogs at that point looking for homes this one had only been there a couple of weeks so rescues must vary greatly as to how they deal with things

The GSD I wanted from the Dog Trust has finally got a home.  I have been pestering them constantly and finally got to the bottom of it.  The man who got in ahead of us all and could have had the dog changed his mind.  He went and looked at local GSD breeders and thought better of it.  He went back to the Dogs Trust and said that he would have her.  They told him sorry you've had your chance its going to next in line.  This took time as the person who wanted her had livestock and the Dogs Trust had to fully investigate.  The next person in line chose another dog so I would have moved to 3rd in line.  All genuine.  So I'm happy.   I was also told that the volunteers seemed to say that you are next in line when your not.  Also they don't reserve by telephone you have to go in person.  I thought you booked appointments! Silly me!

I read somewhere that at many dog auctions in the US, most of the 'stock' ( predominately from the Amish) goes to dog rescues who bid.
Seems some puppy millers over there make their living partly or mostly from rescue societies. Looks like we may be heading that way.

Dog auctions !?....good god :(

>Seems some puppy millers over there make their living partly or mostly from rescue societies. Looks like we may be heading that >way.

If rescues are importing dogs from abroad, I'd say we're already there :-(

:( omg

It does annoy me when people import rescue dogs as there are so many rescue centres in the UK that are full with animals that need homes without adding to the problem with imports!

Don't know how many import dogs but Dog Trust do and I am told so do the RSPCA at the same time as telling the responsible breeder they are causing the problem and claiming their 25 per cent back from our tax accounts.

Well unless they are both declaring upfront that they import rescue dogs from abroad, isn't that fraud?

It's certainly deceitful, and they do sell these dogs to the public...

As a member of the public,  I've certainly never been aware that they are importing dogs to their centres, and would never have thought that it would happen.

Unless they are both declaring upfront that they import rescue dogs from abroad, isn't that fraud?

It's certainly deceitful, and they do sell these dogs to the public...

As a member of the public,  I've certainly never been aware that they are importing dogs to their centres, and would never have thought that it would happen.

Ohhh  found this

http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/brighton-rspca-re-homes-over-one-hundred-of-portugals-neglected-dogs/30513

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/about/intakepolicies/#.U86O75G0XxA

I think the arguement for these centres buying in dogs is because they tend to be full of staffy types and not everyone wanting to rehome wants such breeds. The really sad thing is that you are buying these dogs but never really fully own them. The rspca can turn up to check on you and can decide you are not looking after the new dog adequately. Its almost like they make it hard for you to be eligible for one in the 1st place, then make it hard for you to keep one and finally make you a failure by taking it away!

Their requirements are quite over the top in some cases. Unfortunately this is why I will never take on a rescue dog.

Unfortunately this is why I will never take on a rescue dog.

I agree about the RSPCA and many other general rescues. (Such as the one, also a big buyer of puppy farm dogs, that refuse to let people have a dog unless any other dog they have is neutered.) But there's never a need to reject ALL rescue dogs -BREED rescues are usually excellent and by far the best places to go to if you want to help a rescue.

Surely the remit of a dog rehoming centre is that they rehome the dogs available.   Not to go out looking abroad for more attractive dogs to rehome. 

By going outside of the UK, they are then becoming dealers, in the same way that other dog dealers work.  At that point it's immaterial whether they deal in 'rescue dogs' or puppy farmed pups.

As I've always said, dog rescue is a double edged sword.   On the one hand, it allows abandoned dogs to have a better life - and in some cases avoid death.   On the other hand, it allows puppy farmers and back yard breeders to continue their  lucrative operations without any thought for what they produce and sell.

If the rehoming centres are buying, or paying to bring in dogs from other countries to sell because they can only get staffies in the uk,  what happens to the staffies that they can't rehome?  PTS?     If so, it needs to be more widely known.  

But then, of course we have the question of whether it's ethical to kill staffies and then bring in more attractive rescues from abroad.

How many people who rehomed one of the Portuguese rescue dogs, would have done so, if they had been told that at least one Staffy had been killed so they could have the rescue dog from Portugal?

I find their actions no different to the people who get rid of their old doddery dog and go out and buy a cute new puppy, not acceptable in my book.

The really sad thing is that you are buying these dogs but never really fully own them. The rspca can turn up to check on you and can decide you are not looking after the new dog adequately. Its almost like they make it hard for you to be eligible for one in the 1st place, then make it hard for you to keep one and finally make you a failure by taking it away!
Their requirements are quite over the top in some cases. Unfortunately this is why I will never take on a rescue dog. .

The RSPCA cannot "turn up" to check on people & then take your dog. As for never owning the dog-this too is incorrect, whatever the contract they insist you sign, if money exchanges hands then you own the dog & it becomes your property. This has been proven time & again in court.

In the eyes of the law a dog is like any other piece of property, like a car-the garage cannot check up on you & if in their opinion you haven't maintained it correctly take it back, the law in England & Wales is quite simple once paid for the dog belongs to you

As for never owning the dog-this too is incorrect, whatever the contract they insist you sign, if money exchanges hands then you own the dog & it becomes your property. This has been proven time & again in court.

This is not what I remember Trevor Cooper saying at the dog law seminar. He said the main point is their contract always states something like "adoption" and never mentions a sale and this is so that they can retain ownership. I.e. they are lending or renting you the dog for a fee.

>On the other hand, it allows puppy farmers and back yard breeders to continue their  lucrative operations without any thought for what they produce and sell.

It also makes it easy for people to get rid of their unwanted dog in a nice guilt free way. If it wasnt so easy to pass the dog on to a rescue centre maybe fewer people would rehome their dogs. Particularly if the only option was a trip to the vets. As it is they can give their totally untrained dog to a nice rescue centre when his chewing and barking and aggression get too much to handle. And no doubt they are sure the nice rescue centre will find their dog a loving home with someone who loves a challenge :(

> will find their dog a loving home with someone who loves a challenge :-(

There are always people who will go out and buy a pedigree puppy - but by far the greatest satisfaction is owning a rescue dog :)

>but by far the greatest satisfaction is owning a rescue dog

Why?

Because of the feelgood factor?   Because of the word 'rescue' ?

For every dog handed into 'rescue' by a feckless owner, another pup is bought from a backyard breeder or puppy farmer.   How can anyone feel good about that?

And how good does it feel knowing that indirectly you are contributing to the problem?   If there wasn't a nice easy 'out' for the feckless owners, then there might be fewer rescue dogs and fewer people replacing them with easy to buy puppy farmed pups.

How can it feel good to get a portuguese rescue dog if another dog had to be PTS to make room for it? 

Perhaps it should no longer be called 'Rescue'  perhaps a more honest name would be 'second hand' or 'discarded'   Does that still have the 'feelgood factor' ?

> Because of the feelgood factor?

Call it what you choose - I'm quite happy with that. What would you expect us to feel or is that feeling only for those who have adopted a pedigree dog from a breed rescue ???

I don't agree with dogs being brought into the UK from other countries to 'stock' rescue centres, but there will always be rescue dogs here - those 'pedigree' dogs churned out by all sorts of breeders whose dogs have achieved some sort of award at a show, meet all the right sort of requirements and bred 'ethically' - but they can't guarantee that every puppy they sell will go to a lifelong home nor be used for irresponsible breeding.

>  perhaps a more honest name would be 'second hand' or 'discarded'  

Fine by me. It makes no difference whether the dog had been 'booted' out of his house or was no longer wanted because they weren't quite up to showing.

> And how good does it feel knowing that indirectly you are contributing to the problem?

Don't try to guilt trip me :) I would have expected better of you :(

OK ladies I agree with both your last two posts, but if rescues need to import dogs for the demand then can they please stop vilifying ALL breeders please as being evil, and guilt tripping the public into getting a rescue, and saying buying a puppy from a breeder is somehow wrong.

All rescue dogs were bred by someone and then mostly abandoned by their owners.

So do not people deserve to own dogs bred with the best chance of being healthy, with good temperaments.

If we agree that most casual and commercial breeders do little to ensure this, surely by pushing 'rescue is best' is condemning people to owning dogs whose health temperament and characteristics could be better?

This is doing very little for the health and welfare of the domestic dog overall in this country.

Those who have a problem with selective breeding and pedigree dogs need to remember, that certainly the UK dog crossbreed and mongrel population does not generally in modern Britain, result from random 'natural' selection.  Mostly someone allowed or chose to mate their bitch.

These are not street dogs where some selection for survival of the fittest takes place.  Actually such dogs would fail on suitability as companion basis as they would be those who could best live on their wits as free agents.

I had a long and totally unsatisfying chat with a lady once who always took in rescues and was lets say "Less than" polite about the fact that I do sometimes breed a litter. She could not grasp the fact that if she wished to continue to enjoy the company of a dog someone had to breed a litter, she could see no difference between well bred and BYB or puppy farmed pups. NO one in her eyes should breed dogs.......I tried to explain that if no bitches were ever bred from then within 15 - 20 years dogs in the UK would cease to exist !!!!!
I walked away stunned.....
Aileen

> OK ladies I agree with both your last two posts, but if rescues need to import dogs for the demand then can they please stop vilifying ALL >breeders please as being evil, and guilt tripping the public into getting a rescue, and saying buying a puppy from a breeder is somehow >wrong.

:) OK - I was allowing myself to express my frustrations about 'some' views of 'buying' an 'unwanted dog' :) I currently have one pedigree dog bought as a puppy from a reputable breeder after having done research etc etc etc and, until recently, I had another dog of unknown age, breed or origin. Both were loved equally and treated exactly the same. It just amazes me how someone has the temerity to tell me that I am responsible for puppy farming etc etc and that I am wrong for feeling the way I do about my much loved 'previously unwanted/discarded/secondhand dog' - sorry - not allowed to call him a rescue apparently ! :) :) :)

Barbara - I do full appreciate the lengths that you and some other breeders go to to produce healthy puppies and to ensure that they go to lifelong, happy homes. I hope we provide our pedigree dog with such a home.

Are people with 'previously unwanted dogs' now to expect to get a hostile reaction from some people if they seeking advise on this forum ?? Is Champdogs now only for those with 'one owner only' pedigree dogs ?? Discuss :)

There will always be dog in need of new homes, even if their first homes were at the time excellent, due to UNFORSEEN life changes or Death of an owner.

Technically good breeders at this point in time cannot supply the demand for [puppies.

The demand is supplied by poor breeders.

Too much of the demand is transient and uncommitted, ergo the need for rescue.

What needs to happen is the demand needs to reduce to only those who realistically can commit to long term ownership, and the demand should be for well bred (health tested, well reared and socialised and typical of their breed/type) pups from breeders that are worthy of the title, breeding with health and temperament uppermost, using appropriate health schemes and rearing methods, with responsibility for the pups produced.

This might encourage the right kind of approach towards breeding, and stop large scale breeding being possible.

>What needs to happen is the demand needs to reduce to only those who realistically can commit to long term ownership, and the demand >should be for well bred (health tested, well reared and socialised and typical of their breed/type) pups from breeders that are worthy of the >title,

I'd agree with that :) :)

>Are people with 'previously unwanted dogs' now to expect to get a hostile reaction from some people if they seeking advise on this forum ??

I sincerely hope not :)

>Is Champdogs now only for those with 'one owner only' pedigree dogs ??

Champdogs has and always will have an 'open door but mind the dogs don't get out' policy - "EVERYONE IS WELCOME" :)

Many of our members have rescue/rehome dogs and long may it continue. Anyone whom has ever owned a rescue/rehomed dog will know the satisfaction (and at times challenge) owning such a dog brings. Thank heavens that people do open their homes to animals needing help. It would be a very sad world if people didn't!!

My oldest is a re-home, I bred her, but had her back when the owners found they couldn't cope with an adolescent. 

I have also helped re-home dogs I have bred and fostered for Breed rescue.

those 'pedigree' dogs churned out by all sorts of breeders whose dogs have achieved some sort of award at a show, meet all the right sort of requirements and bred 'ethically' - but they can't guarantee that every puppy they sell will go to a lifelong home nor be used for irresponsible breeding.

Nothing can be guaranteed, but we have a MUCH higher chance than those not breeding responsibly.  With the exception of one pup from my accidental crossbred litter, that was conned out of me and resold (I was a novice then), I know where ALL my pups are, and I contact every single owner at Christmas, and many, many keep in touch every few months, some every few weeks, and some every few DAYS. The great majority have been neutered. Yes you can always have some slip through the net, it happens, but the likelihood is far less when the breeder makes an effort to keep in touch with the new owners, rather than just take the money and forget all about the puppy like so many do. Plus of course spend enough time to initially check the buyers out as suitable.

Then there is all the networking. Good breeders stick together in their breed. The moment a dog of my breed ends up in rescue the word is spread and everyone is asked if it could be one of theirs and we all double check. You can spot the show bred ones a mile away by their looks. That is true of most breeds I dare say.

OK ladies I agree with both your last two posts, but if rescues need to import dogs for the demand then can they please stop vilifying ALL breeders please as being evil, and guilt tripping the public into getting a rescue, and saying buying a puppy from a breeder is somehow wrong.

Very, very good point Barbara. Could not agree more.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for those who take on a "rescue/unwanted" dog. These dogs need homes normally through no fault of their own. I do have a beef about bringing dogs in from overseas, We have a huge problem in the UK with unwanted dogs and to bring in different breeds from other countries just to put a variety in a rescue kennel is abhorrent. It is tantamount to BYB IMO. OK so we have a very high proportion of SBT and SBT mixes but that is no reason to PTS happy healthy dogs just to supply the demand. If those looking for rescues cannot find what they want in a rescue kennel then there are breed rescues to turn to. Maybe the wait for the dog of your dreams is longer, but at least you will not be contributing to a system that kills one dog as there are "too many" to make room for another.
I also have somewhat of a grim view of rescue kennels that customarily take ex-breeding stock in. These are the get out routes for puppy farmers and BYB. Maybe a tightening up on this could be effected, though the chances are if we did then many more ex-breeders would die. There is no answer this way.
The ONLY answer to overproduction of puppies in the UK is legislation to tighten up on commercial/BYB. I fear it will never happen.
Multi-breed establishments need to prove they are producing good quality healthy pups, BYB's need to have their hands tied to a number that can be properly looked after and raised. Even though it would effect me I would like to see it become law that puppies cannot be bred in a residential home without some sort of licence. I know it would not stop all the idiots but at least we would then have some sort of a stick to beat them with. Dog wardens could monitor corner shops and newspaper adds, if pups are found to be being sold then the owners could be checked up on. We need to be able to make some sort of trail so that culpability can be brought into play.
Unfortunately I will not see it happen in my lifetime. However if the human race continues the way it is going with overpopulation of the world then the day will come when dogs will be something to look at in a virtual zoo.
Aileen

OK so we have a very high proportion of SBT and SBT mixes but that is no reason to PTS happy healthy dogs just to supply the demand. If those looking for rescues cannot find what they want in a rescue kennel then there are breed rescues to turn to. Maybe the wait for the dog of your dreams is longer, but at least you will not be contributing to a system that kills one dog as there are "too many" to make room for another.

YES -really this is NO different to people wanting a pedigree pup not being prepared to wait, but going off to buy a badly bred one, those keeping the BYBs and puppy farmers in business. Those are the type of buyers most of us would never consider selling to, as their general attitude to dog ownership is wrong. The right buyer is usually one prepared to wait, getting in touch months in advance, not being in a hurry. So why do rescues rehome to them, and import the dogs they want? There is only one answer and that is to make money. Those dogs probably fund all the unwanted Staffies. I appreciate they will need money to run a rescue, but this does not seem an ethical way to me.

I suppose it depends on whether you take the short term view ...or the long.

Many people feel that it should only be rescued dogs who should grace their home and that they are helping with a problem...today.

But....if there wasn't a huge infrastructure to aid mass breeding by those who take no responsibility whatsoever for what they produce...then it would reduce for sure.

We often read here kind hearted folk facilitating the rearing and selling of one off profit or accidental litters.
Then we read and tsk,tsk about the mass breeding of anything with a womb to another breed which will have a catchy name and a big price tag...

IF these pups ( including all these ' rare blue' staffies) were left IN ONE GENERATION for their  " breeders" to deal with...I'm sure many wouldn't be so quick to try to raise their Christmas money that way again.

Chicken and egg situation I'm afraid and one of the most extremes examples of this I read in a Blogger in the USA... She goes round the Dog Auctions and writes.... " yeah bought 11 today" as if she's getting one over on the puppy millers ...poor deluded, kind hearted lady.

I don't the answer...wish I did.

It's also why they happily rear litters of pups born to pregnant bitches, rather than spaying or injecting them..

For every dog handed into 'rescue' by a feckless owner, another pup is bought from a backyard breeder or puppy farmer.   How can anyone feel good about that?

I agree with you there Dill. It certainly doesn't help our at risk pedigree breeds either. You never see a dandy in a rescue centre but the more people that rescue the less they look for a pedigree breed (that we may be losing altogether!).

Im a member of a few dog groups on the dreaded facebook - but they only allow promotion of rescue dogs. This drive me nuts! Where's the promotion of the pedigrees that really DO need our help. It's just crazy that someone would rather have a mix mash of 7 breeds than a breed that has been native to our country for hundreds of years :( I usually get the "because they are so horrendously in bred" response - but it's a vicious circle!