Was looking online at puppies for sale (not looking to buy just board) and came across a breeder with lots of adverts for what there calling silver/blue staffs. In the pics the silver/blue pups look a merle pattern. Are people breeding them in merle now?
The advert says there KC reg so if they are merle im assuming they are calling them silver/blue so they can register them as it says on the kc site they wont register merle puppies.

I've seen Merle pitbull types around here, suppose they could have been staffies, but only staffy-type :(   and a Catahoula Merle coloured lurcher ???  no idea how that happened, I was in the car at the time and couldn't stop.  Thing is, where would the Merle gene come from in a breed that doesn't have merle?  Is it really likely that it would arise spontaneously?

If the ad is online, take a screen shot and then you've proof of the colours and claimed KC reg.  If they aren't registered, surely that would be fraud?   If they are registered and are Merle then the KC should know about it ;)

Just a thought, but could they be Blue Brindle?  Some Brindles look patchier than others ?

Whoops, just found the ads and definitely merle type patching, not brindle :(

ETA, that one pups eye looks a bit worrying, I've never seen red reflection in a dogs/pups eye, only green ?  unless of course it's a Blue eye, which also makes me think Merle ;-)

Well they are adding to Staff to lurchers where traditionally collies are in the bloodlines, so maybe they have been crossed back?

>that one pups eye looks a bit worrying, I've never seen red reflection in a dogs/pups eye, only green ?

All liver-spotted dals' eyes reflect red, and the black-spotted ones reflect green. :-)

I'd asume they would have had to cross something into the staffs to get the gene as its dominant then bred back to get the breed type back like Barbara has said. but I don't know much about the breed so did wonder if it was something that just looked merle. it seems it's becoming more common for new/uncommon colours to be popping up on the sales sites it seems.

I will see what the kc says now u agree they look merle, as there either lieing about them being kc reg or they are registering them under the wrong colour to get the papers.

All liver-spotted dals' eyes reflect red, and the black-spotted ones reflect green

Wow, are there eyes in normal light diffrent at all? Wondering why they reflect diffrent.

Livers' eyes are more amber coloured, and the blacks have the dark brown eyes, but of course it's the retina that reflects the light, not the iris. :-)

The advert says there KC reg

Lol, yea right, they're (pedigrees) 10 a penny in London pubs, if someone bred a blue merle half wereworlf half Tosa they'd soon get fixed up with a KC pedigree in some London pubs.
.

KC wont register merle sbt - so they would have to be registered as either blue or undesired colour

Yeah lel I thing there calling them silver instead to get around it. I've emailed the of about it so will see if they get back to me.
Of course being a 'rare' colour there up for a high price tag.

'Silver' isn't a recognised   colour either ;-)

Yes but the kc would register then as colour not reconised right where as if the said they were merle the kc wouldn't register those ones at all.

Don't forget dill nower days unrecognised/faulty colours mean rare and special ;)

Just like the trillions of adverts for rare blue staffords. Apparently its that popular now that over 50% of registered staffords are now blue. Think the black brindles and reds should now costs more as they are even more rare lol

With all these numerous adverts for blue Staffs being rare does it not about out that actually they aren't rare because of the large numbers being advertised.. Lol

Oooh rare and special...

Wonder how much I could get for a three legged dog with one eye and half an ear?

Both rare and special :-D

Wonder how much I could get for a three legged dog with one eye and half an ear?

25 years ago when I bred my first litter of Persian kittens, one of them was born with just half a tail. When I advertised the kittens for sale, EVERY single person who called wanted the one with just half a tail!

I can understand that a little, I suppose.

When I was but a young-un, my parents allowed me a kitten.  We went to a farmhouse who had advertised a litter - free in those days ;-)

Two kittens, one ginger tabby, but a really deep ginger, and a beautiful tortie and white female with almost no tail.  Her mother had a tail, but granny didn't.  All the gran's kittens had tails, but mum's kittens were almost always half with and half without.

We came home with the tortie.  My father wouldn't even entertain the thought of the gorgeous ginger boy (I was angling for both ;-) )

Humans always want something a little out of the ordinary, it's why we choose different dog breeds, otherwise we'd all have the same breed, whatever that would be in a world where no-one wanted anything different ;-)

What I don't get, is the way people allow themselves to be fleeced just for something different.

A year or so ago, I met a man with a hairy pup.  It looked a bit 'Tibetan Terrier' but  I wasn't sure, so I asked.   I was told that it was a very very rare miniature golden doodle and cost over a thousand pounds and had been half price.   I couldn't help myself, I told him he'd been had - a thousand pounds for a mongrel was ridiculous and the coat would be a nightmare to cope with - it was already so profuse it was scary!   The reply was that these dogs aren't mongrels, they are very rare and sought after as THEY NEVER MOULT! 

Clearly the man  thought I was an ignorant idiot.

Some people will pay anything to feel they have  something rare   and they don't have  the brains to see when they've been 'had'

Some people will pay anything to feel they have  something rare confused  and they don't have  the brains to see when they've been 'had'

True. And I will never understand it either!

It's not a new phenomenon.

In Medieval times people made a fortune selling phials of the 'blood of Christ' or 'Mary's milk'

And of course there was 'slivers of the true cross'...

:-(

As long as there are gullible people, there will be people happy to take advantage :-(

Some people will pay anything to feel they have  something rare and they don't have  the brains to see when they've been 'had'

Defernatly, I've seen the same with fancy mice, when the gene needed for healthy tri colour mice was brought over to the uk, some made it into the hands of an animal dealer who was selling them to petshops for £30 a mouse!! I Dred to thing how much the shops were asking for them. Yet at the same time the show breeders were offering them free to other breeders to spread the gene out. There now so common.

> I've seen the same with fancy mice, when the gene needed for healthy tri colour mice was brought over to the uk,

I use to know the person who standardised the first Tricolour fancy mice. He was very reluctant to part with them because they waltzed.///he spent decades trying to see if he could breed out that factor but was unable to, asit was irrevocably linked.

I have brought in new colours/varieties of small animals from Europe, both on my own and in partnership, and played them very close to the chest to start with, mainly because it was needed to work out whether they had associated health issues, either with the new colour/gene they had, or from their breeding. I'm sure I could have made a lot of money selling them as "rare" (especially in view of the cost of importing) but that was the last thing on my mind.

Yeah I've read about the old waltzing tris, the new ones don't have the problem so they have the tris and now splashed which is the gene used now.
The person who got the new gene kept them to herself and I think a few other to get the numbers up first then they were offered out to others.
Wow u use to know him! Do u still show the small animals?  Much easyer I find the mice than dogs lol

Do either of you remember back in the early 90s I think it was when a certain millionaire entered the mouse fancy and decided he wanted to increase the value of it all, and so started charging hundreds?!

I've Hurd some of the older fanciers saying about at one point the mice would fetch a price but that's it for me. Was a late 80's child and only been in the show mouse world a few years. Although I know may say there glad mice dont fetch that price anymore so that money doesnt effect the fancy like they say it had there other ones.
I couldn't believe the prices of the rabbit auctions the one time is showed at the one in harragte, I rember asking a friend if they pooped out gold lol

That's weird as in my day showing Rabbits, (Mid 80's) they were never sold for more than £25, and pet youngsters about a fiver.

Think Jo Stockbridge is talking about the annual auction at the Bradford show where the very top breeders would donate stock to be auctioned off for charity. Always a big event and people would pay almost anythign to get their hands on some stock from the breeders that regularly won BIS at the 5 star shows.

and of course the generosity and price was primarily due to the money being for charity.

yep that's the one Goldmali, I didn't know the money went to charity that's realy nice.

I've had a reply from the kc,
"We note what you say but at the moment the difficulty is matching a registration record ( if there is one) with the advertisement. Nevertheless, please leave it with us and we will look into it. Presumably, in case as you rightly point out the advert may be incorrect, you have brought the matter to the attention of the site controller who may be in a position to query it with the breeder. "

I don't know why it would be hard to match there records to the add as the add had the person's full name, area and number. Then if they have a record for them with colours not reconised they could ask for photo, DNA test or send some one over posing as a buyer to prove the silver ones are/are not merle.

> I don't know why it would be hard to match there records to the add as the add had the person's full name, area and number. Then if they have a record for them with colours not reconised they could ask for photo, DNA test or send some one over posing as a buyer to prove the silver ones are/are not merle.

I've found the ad you mentioned and YES the pups are clearly merle from the photos. They also look to be slate merle (as in blue dilute + merle). You are right, it does say they are KC reg.

Did you send the KC a screenshot of the ad?

Yep I sent a screen shot of two of the adds and a link to one as well.

So this Breed Specific Restrictions
With effect from 05 January 2010, merle puppies whelped from a mating on or after this date will not be registered. This is due to associated health risks of impaired vision and hearing associated with the merle gene in this breed.
With effect from 01 January 2013, the Kennel Club will not register puppies whelped from a merle to merle mating born on or after this date. This is due to associated health risks of impaired vision and hearing associated with the merle gene in this breed.
is working well then? :/

Would be interested to know details of the ad, if someone would be happy to pm it?

I'll pm u one of the adds

Well there newest adds only have photos of the blues siblings and the price has dropped by £50 so I guess the merle aka silver ones have both been sold. It's a shame they don't say who the parents are it would be intresting to see if one of them is merle to, you would know if they were lieing about the parents then.

If one of the parents was a merle then it would have to be a crossbreed as there is no merle gene in the stafford genetic pool

as two of the pups are merle one parent would have to be merle.
Had a reply from the site the add is on and they are going to investagate it and if right ban them, they wanted the respons from the kc so ive sent them that and the page where they say they wont register merle staffs any more.

A quick search on the internet and there seem to be loads of KC reg merles around, infact there are a few active puppy ads

to be fair to the kennel club if the breeder registers them as Blue of anything else they are not to know. 

So evidence (photographic) is the way to go, but you need full details of the litter and parents.