I have just got back from a very windy weekend in the caravan at Midland Counties Champ show. Having only showed on one day I have had plenty of time to wander round the show watching judging and talking to other exhibitors etc.

I am absoloutly astounded at the behaviour of some of the exhibitors. examples are:

1. An exhibitor who having won Post Grad bitch then got placed last in Open bitch storming out of ring and packing up her dogs without staying for the challenge.

2. The winner of best bitch refusing to leave the ring after the dog was awarded best of breed becuase they didn't agree with the judges decision.

3. Exhibitors in stakes classes with larger dogs deliberately crowding other exhibitors - despite being in a large ring with plenty of room.

4. Exhibitors standing next to the judges table during judging talking loudly to each other, and naming the dogs in the ring, about what wins those dogs had had.

5. Exhibitors after judging who call other exhibitors and their dogs, not to their face but well within hearing and obviously meant to be heard by either the dogs owner or the judge.

Ok,this is just at one show but I also know of several people who after good well deserved wins have received letters and e-mails, not of congratulations but rather completely trashing their dogs and sometimes the owners.

I personally was subject to telephone harrassment when i had my last litter telling me that I didn't know what i was doing and that I would be laughed at when I went in the ring with my dogs.

Ok, so not all exhibitors are like this and I have seen on many occasions novice exhibitors being given help and advice with grooming, presentation and other aspects of showing. But this is seen less and less these days.

I used to view dog showing is a hobby and a "sport" but maybe not!

Kate

I have occasionally seen poorly hidden disappointment at their placing and muttering under the breath about the judge, but thankfully have personally found people in and out of my breed generally helpful and pleased for each others successes. The only time people really seem to moan a bit is if the same dog is winning everything! Human nature I suppose.

This year in my breed for the 18 sts of CCs there have ben 9 dog winners and 12 bitches, and the atmosphere has been very good.

There are always those who take themselves and our hobby way too seriously, as after all it is all very subjective.

Hi all, I must admit that poor sportsmanship has allways concerned me, I've been appalled to witness some peoples behaviour.Just recently I've been offered my first judging appointment, and while I feel sure I can sort out the few entrants that will appear at an Open show, I'm not looking forward to whatever repercussions are coming my way. You can't please all the people all the time.I always insisted upon good grace when my daughter was doing a little junior handling, manners are so important and cost nothing. Whatever happened to the old addage 'You always take the best dog home'. Dawn R.

Hi,
Well welcome to the world of dog showing!!!! I found exctly the same thing when i started showing in the 90's but it's seems to have got worse since then.I actually packed in the hobby mainly because of the reasons you have mentioned above & at least you have only had harrassing phone calls,somebody tried to burn our kennels down with the dogs in them because they were so jealous of our dogs beating them all the time on the showbench.
I have even seen other exhibitor's at champ shows stumping cigarettes out on another persons dog when it was left unattended on its bench. I had this person arrested for doing so but he only got a fine but was banned from all shows by the KC but the poor dog was scarred for life with 3 bare patch's on his head. His excuse was he accidently dropped the cigarette on the dog!!!

I can only repeat thank God people in our breed will do no more than mutter under their breath about the compatence of the judge.

I know I don't show at more than 10 champ shows a year, but have never found anyone being anything but kind to other exhibitors dogs, commonly helping to handle if you have more than one dog in a class/succeeeding classes. Most can stifle theri disappointment and congratulate and be pleased for the winners, knowing it may be their day next time!

One of our board members is new to showing and our breed, and I think she will agree??

As for showing in varieties, I find it a real pleasure. I find it less pressured, as it cannot be as directly competitive as in the breed, as it is comparing apples and orange! It is an opportunity to watch other breeds, and discuss aspects withtheir owners, especialy in big stakes classes, where there is plenty of waiting about.

Must agree Brainless, I have never been aware of any unpleasentness around our ring, may be sometimes suprise at a judging decision but it is never relayed to the owner of the winning dog. Have never had any when judging either, I would hope if someone was worried by my judging they would speak to me rather than about me. I must admit some times I will look at a dog some time after judging it and wonder why I prefered it to others in the class, all I can say is at the time that is how I saw it. It has at times ment that I have over looked a high winning dog in favour of another and if you asked me at the time why, I hope I would be able to say, but weeks later I'm not sure I could without judging them again, and even then I might see them in a different light. Have also found that the handlers mood seems to affect the dogs 'showing'.

I'm sure ours can't be the only breed that is happy to welcome newcomers, be it handlers or judges, and except that we all see dogs in a different way, and if the judge can see the faults you know your dog has then thats their job if they see faults you were not aware of, then perhaps we should look harder, but no way should we take our dissapointment out on others and certainly not on the dogs. Why are we into owning and showing dogs if we like them so little we could do anything to harm or upset them? Ja:)kie

I'm the Elkhound owner who is new to showing our breed and yes,it is a wonderful atmosphere round the ring-people are supportive and friendly even to newcomers like me.
I started showing my first Elkie last june (at 6 months old) and everyone seems to be genuinely pleased for other peoples wins.I'm not saying I haven't heard the odd mumble of disagreement when choices are made by the judge but then we can't all agree can we!!My 2 boys have done consistently well(1st or 2nd placings) this year despite having done only half a dozen champ shows and have had people comment favourably to me about my dogs and congratulate my successes.
I feel very lucky to have fallen in love with a breed where the people are as nice as the dogs!!!!(well almost LOL)
Nikki.

I think you will agree that if the atmosphere around some breeds is bad, then people will leave the breed, or at the very least stop taking an active part. this can only be bad for the breeds continuing existence in some cases.

heres a tip====dont stand close to the sharpei ring without full metal jacket

A COUPLE OF POINTS RE THE FIRST POSTING, -THE OWNER WHO'S BITCH WON POST GRAD I THINK IT WAS, THEN GPOT LAST IN OPEN COULDNT GO IN THE CHALLENGE AS SHED BEEN BEATEN -sorry capitols
the bitch owner that wouldnt leave the ring cos her bitch didnt get bob-having got best bitch at midland counties, the male going bob, i had the judge come straight to me , she told me she preffered my bitch but shed played me up on the move---she was right and i hadnt a problem, however the [OTHER LOT!!!] turned it into that i was HAVING A GO AT THE JUDGE!, i wasnt and never ever have, but thats what it must of seemed like to those looking for the worst in everybody, :D

Hi Dizzy

I don't know about having to wear a full metal jacket around the Sharpei rings, not all competitors in Sharpei act un-sportingly. There are a few of us out there that have manners you know !
Regards
Karen

im sure there are---at the minute however its not much in evidence is it-???? -its not every breed that has such bad sports and losers !! i could go on, but i wont :D

Hi Peilady:)

Oooo another Shar Pei person:D

Which shows have you been to lately, I might have seen you there:) Sadly though I don't think they were the same ones as I've been too, full metal jacket required and then some:) Have you had any big wins? It would seem this is what seems to make people turn unfortunately:rolleyes:

As a new person it would have been nice to have met someone welcoming - may be I'll bump into you somehwhere?:)

Hi Reefer

Nice to meet you :-) I was at Midland Counties last Saturday, with my new bitch puppy, (her first time out) and she came away with a 3rd placing, which I was over the moon about :D seeing that she hadn't been in any of these situations before Midland Counties. I'll be at the club show next weekend, so may see you there ? I show for fun, when the fun ends its time to quit showing Just my own opinion and feelings that is. If we get a placing then that's brilliant, if not so what, there's another show and another judge.
Regards
Karen

Didn't make Midland Counties and can't make the club show due to other commitments:(
But I think there's another big one in Dec I hope to get to?

Yes showing should be for fun, and that is my aim to show for fun one day:) Sadly though there would appear to be many others who seem to have had a fun bypass:D

The reality, Anita, is that showing is a competition.

Yes we show because we enjoy it and I know our dogs enjoy it. Just get the yellow bag out and they are all there with wagging tails.
In any competition there will be those there just for a days sport (fun) and those there for the thrill of winning where anything less is a failure.
When one pays 20pounds per dog to enter a show plus the travelling expenses plus the catalogue plus the car park plus the other incidentals along the way - oh yes buying/breeding the dog, feeding the dog, grooming the dog, vets fees (now there is another topic!!) etcc.. it all adds up to an awful lot of money.

We do it because we enjoy it which is not the same as "for fun".

Maybe it is I who has had the fun bypass!!! <<G>>

I agree Longdog there is no point in competing if you are not doing it with the ultimate aim - to win:D
But I believe it is still perfectly possible not to win with good grace and to enjoy the bit actually outside the ring:) Meeting people, talking, ooo and shopping:D

Sorry, it mustn't have been clear in the first posting - the pg and open bitches were different bitches not the same one. Therefore she was unbeaten and could have challanged

Kate

Kate,

I see you had a caravan at the show. I don't show but I like to spectate and I'm thinking of caravanning at a couple of shows down south next year. How does it work? Can you only go into the show on the day your dogs are entered? I take it facilities will be very basic. Do they provide anything other than a water tap? ie. toilet emptying/elec hook up.
Dot

Hi Dot, think you need to talk to Matty who goes caravaning to shows with her dogs & has a great time.Think she says wellies are compulsory!! :)
Christine, Spain

Hi Christine,
Thanks. I think I'll mail her.
Dot

Hi Peilady I am going over to the club show next week , I would love to meet you . I will be with Linda .I am going mostly to see my new baby pei .Mari

Hi Mari

Yes I knew you were coming over as Dizzy said a few weeks ago on another thread. I'll be around the club stand somewhere with Cathy & Stella, you can't miss me really I'll be the one in the corner :-)
See you there
Karen

The way I feel about show people at the moment I don't know whether I can be bothered showing any longer, maybe 20 years is long enough.

Somone who won at Midland Counties had a bad day because of certain people and it isn't the first time that her dog has done well. At least they got placed in the final group as well!!

We had someone do the s*** on us today.

I suppose there is one good thing about having an import reg. breed though, at least we don't get too many hassles, although it's a shame that we can't go any further with our dogs.

Mmmnnn yes lets not mention wellies and nighties shall we :) Ive emailed Dot re: caravanning at shows its great fun.
Also there is an Our dogs caravan club Ive lost the number of the Lady does anyone know it?

Just to follow on with this topic.....

I have acquaintances that - even at Open show level - have been known to write to the judges concerned with their disapproval, if either of their dogs has been beaten by what they consider poorer competition! They once even asked me if I would ask a judge (She's a friend of mine!) why their dog got 2nd to a dog they didn't like! You can guess my reply!

Sometimes moans about judging are justified espcially when you see the awards going to lame dogs owned by faces! We've all been there haven't we?

My opinion on dog shows is . It is a hobby an enjoyable hobby and if I win thats brilliant , I get as excited as the next person have been known to do a little dance when a b.o.b is won BUT I have done more then my fair share of losing also .
I look at it this way I love the day out treat it as social time a break from the house and a chat with friends if I win great its a bonus if I lose well another day .
You have to get it into perspective when it begins to upset you it is no longer pleasent so if that happens to me I will move on and find something else to do . After all you still have the dog , its not as if someone can take it off you cos you lost .I enjoy my dogs first and then the exhibiting of them . I dont get upset because I know my dogs and if a judge doesent like them ok some other judge will .
The way I see it is while I am enjoying it they can do what the want and when im not enjoying it they can still do what they want but without me.
SIMPLE
Mari

lily ,your friend should of worked it out from the critique, -it wouldnt bother me if someone asked why id done something in my placings, id tell them !!!-

Mattie, got it thanks. Dot

Hi Dot

We carvan at several shows throughout the year and normally go for the duration, arriving the night before the first day and leaving either on the last day or the day after the show closes.

Some sites are basic - ie definately no tents - as the toilet facilities are minimal. Those that are held at agricultural showgrounds tend to have better facilities.

You can go into the show all days if you are on site and also can have in the caravan all your dogs - we take seven and normally only show 2 or 3.

Wellies are definately essential as are scarves, gloves, hats.... and a sense of both adventure and humour!!

Kate

Thanks Kate.
I really fancy trying it next year. I don't show but I like to watch and wander around. Far less stressful :) :)
Dot

Hello Polipet
we will bringing home our Bullmastiff puppy on friday 8/11 and will make a decision when hes a bit older on whether we will show him or not??
I only hope that my husband and I both NEVER see such agressive, childish, irresponsible, pointless cruel unthinkable behaviour at any time or GOD HELP THEM, No actually I hope he doesnt!!!!!! Because I assure you at 5' 5" i weighing a fag paper I WOULD NOT STAND FOR IT! And I think the people Sorry show persons that are proud of the dogs and breeds and are NOT standing there Bitching or whatever should stand together and fight to get rid of these ******************(whatever you want to call them?????)
Surely something can be done enough peple on this forum to do something a couple of names need be mentioned attitudes will soon change!!!!!!
COME ON DONT LET THE IRRESPONSIBLE EXHIBITORS? GET THE BETTER OF US!!!!!!!!!
DO SOMETHING! I AM IN!!!!! PINKY

We may feel like you do Pinky, but acting as you are suggesting would, I think, only make the matter worse. I agree I would not stand by and watch someone damage a dog, but bad mouthing is best ignored and anything worse reported to an authority. Ja:)kie

Hi Again,
I think most judge's try to do their best when it come's down to it although a few do seem to look at the handler on the other end of the lead rather than the dog & i think favoritism has to stop to enable everyone to have a go at the CC's on offer rather than every CC going to a certain champion dog or a certain kennels! When i used to show i done very well & was pleased with the reults 90% of the time but i did feel 'robbed' as you call it a few time's under certain top judge's (not mentioning any names).

Hi Shonagh, but the other side of the coin are the judges who just cant wait to put the top dog down the line, just so they can say they didn't follow the fashion, without actually placing a better dog above it! When it somes down to it, showing is not about a fair share for everyone, but honestly placing the best dogs, on that day. Sometimes this is going to be the same dogs, again and again, if they actually are the best, and on form, when they appear in the ring.
Gwen

I have a method when judging.
A very simple one I cant please everyone so I please myself.
I never have eye contact with the exhibitor so therefore the person that eyeballs you in the ring is wasting their time with me.
When finished my judging .I thank them all for the compliment they gave me with an entry and wish them well in the future .
Mari

gwen, you are so right-i think some exhibitors regardless of the qualitys of the dogs they own feel everything should be shared----thats not what its about---the top kennels-top dogs etc didnt enter the ring in the start as such----they earned it,-therefore if the stuff they have is among the best theyre going to be there, or thereabouts nearly all of the time. its tough for the rest, but its a fact of life, nothing comes easy, occasionaly someone may get a bent win----but it would be very obvious by the lack of wins under other judges-its time people sat up and worked out WHY others are winning so much , only then will they realise its not a game of pass the parcel-------ITS THE BEST DOGS ON THE DAY!

>>> ITS THE BEST DOGS ON THE DAY!

Exactly - if you have a good dog in good condition then one hopes it will win or be placed time and time again. It doesn't mean you're bribing judges - it means you know your breed and what the standard requires.

We all think our dogs are wonderful but if we tried to look at them through someones elses eyes we would maybe see the faults in them and why others do better :) Knowledge is gained through experience and even the top winners nowadays started somewhere probably with their first few dogs getting nowhere until they learnt what was needed and how to recognise it. Gwen has said before about some handlers being able to bring out the best in the dogs. If I went in a class and Phoebie was equal to another dog but a more experienced handler shows theirs off to better advantage and won, well congratulations to them and I'd be watching and learning by it :) Others would maybe view it as a "face winning" over a novice but might their experience not be the reason why?

And it doesn't matter whether you get 1st prize or last prize......you always take the best dog home :) :)
(Mind you.......a 1st is nice :D)
Dot

Hi Dot
My thoughts exactly, I love showing, but my dogs are like yours first and foremost pets and if they pick up a placing at a show its a lovely achievement.
Karen

WELL SAID SARA :) , youve certainly got the right attitude to it all, -watch, learn and listen, ---it should start making sense, being able to see others dogs for what they are , good or bad helps a lot in working it all out, --its all a learning experience, -some pick it up better than others, some have a natural eye for a good dog, others will never have one, but asking those whove been around and done well is a step in the right direction if youre looking for something to show, -i cant understand how some go and buy a dog from unknown or unshown parents and expect to go out and wipe the board, it might happen but chances are it wont make it, too many are all for pulling the top winners/breeders to bits, whereas shouldnt they be the ones that might help you on your way????

Well i knew i'd get a slamming for that post.But how do you explain this one; A top breeder of a utility breed i know actually paid for a judge to go on holiday with them to france a month before a big champ show in the midlands area & i was sitting in this persons house the day after they got back from holiday because i was picking my bitch up from there kennels she had been getting mated & as the judge was leaving he said to this breeder the ticket is yours on the day & at the show he got the dog CC & BOB.
And my own dog beat this dog at his next champ show, so the dog in question was exported to america and gained his title there.
Other breeds that have crooked judges are the terriers & gundog groups. I'm not saying all of you are crooked but there is a few who bend the rules to benefit themselves and their friends!
Bye
Shonagh.

Bent judge, bent exhibitor - both should be banned for life!!!!!

Fiona
x x x

And did you report it to the Kennel Club straight away, if not why not, as you feel so strongly about it. No one would condone such behaviour and if you did not report it you are almost as bad. Jackie

For your information Jackie i did report it to the KC on the day the dog won but they said there was not enough evidence to support the claim & it would just be my word against a very influential breeders word!

They would have thought it were sour grapes by then, should have done it the day you heard it. Jackie

Jackie H they couldn't have thought it was sour grapes because i had nothing to be sour about as i hadn't entered the show with my dogs i was just merely a spectator. And what good would it have done to report it to the KC on the day i heard it discussed in the persons home as i still had no proof.

They could have then kept an eye on things but, of course, if the field officer thought the best dog won then it is unlikley they would have done anything. You don't have to be in direct competition for it to be thought that your motive is sour grapes. And I belive that to make a complaint at a show you have to be an exhibitor. Ja:)kie

Wasn't slamming you for your post, simply pointing out that not all big winning kennel wins are fixes! Some of us work very hard at making sure our dogs are worthy of top dog status. Of course, the crooked few taint the whole dog game. And not just a top level for foreign holidays! At open show level I repeatedly see worthy winner put down theline to substandard specimens (in many different breeds) because comittee members are swapping appointments to work their way up the tree. The other side of the coin is people accepting judging appointments with hardly the vaguest idea of the breed standard! Some amazing results can be seen.
Gwen

Hi Gwen,
Yes i agree there is probably more fixing at open shows than champ shows i have seen some terrible dogs placed at open shows in front of CC winning dogs just to spite the breeder/owner if that judge dosen't like them or the judge is totally incompetent. And i also agree with you that alot of the top winning dogs seen in the ring today are worthy of their status & so are thier breeders worthy of the reputation. But i wish some of the breeders & judges i came across weren't as crooked & devious which i think spoils it for newcomers. I always tried to be helpful to people i even gave a dog (free) to a junior who went on to do rather well in her handling, she has now left school & is concentrating on becoming a police dog handler.
Bye
Shonagh.