Hi all
I know this has been discussed a few times lately but I would like some thoughts on when to vaccinate my new puppy. I understand that the reason for waiting is to let the mothers immunity drop off, however the litter my pup is from has been largely hand reared. They had some milk at the start but the bitch wasn't keeping up alone and hand feeding seemed to take over, they still had some up till 51/2 weeks when she was totally weaned. Do you think this should mean the immunity would not last as long or is it just about the time from birth/colostrum that matters?
I'm getting her next week at 7 1/2 weeks old and I am wondering whether I should have her first jab ASAP or wait a bit? or maybe have the first right away but wait 2 weeks for the 2nd?
thanks in advance!

or maybe have the first right away but wait 2 weeks for the 2nd?

There is always a 2 week gap between the first and the second. That is the crux for me -if you have the first one later than 8 weeks, the pup won't be fully vaccinated until quite old. I want mine out and about at 9 weeks and able to walk among other dogs at 10 weeks.

The second vaccination has to be between 14 and 28 days after the first, and the pup has to be at least 10 weeks old to have it. If you gave the first injection at 7 weeks or 8 weeks, the pup would still have to be 10 weeks to have the second. If you gave the first at 9 weeks the pup would have to be 11 weeks to have the second.

It's always best to allow a puppy a few days to get over the stress of going to a new home before adding the physical stress of a vaccination as well.

oops, I miss-typed, i meant to say should I wait 3 weeks for the second, from what JG has said I think that might be what happens anyhow, get on with the first fairly soon and make sure the second is 10-11 weeks.

I will be careful but I do plan to start any possible socialising right away, I live in the middle of nowhere so socialisation opportunity's are too hard to come by to pass up! I think the risk or disease is much lower than the risk of a neurotic dog (speaking slightly from experience here, wish I'd been able to do more with my previous puppies)

I am curious as to if anyone knows if the dams immunity will last less long in early weaned pups though?
thanks for the help

>I am curious as to if anyone knows if the dams immunity will last less long in early weaned pups though?

Yes it will, because it's not been given the continual top-up that gradual natural weaning gives. Our setter pup was weaned at 3 weeks because the mum was stolen and found 2 days later injured on the motorway so was far too ill to go back to her pups. We vaccinated the pup at 7 and 10 weeks.

Provided the puppies took mum's first milk (the colostrum) which is where the natural immunity comes from (provided mum has been utd with her boosters prior to being mated!) this should hold them until around week 5 after which this natural immunity starts to drop off.   There is, as far as I'm aware, no connection between being nursed beyond the first milk, and being given natural immunity.   It's all down to the colostrum.   After the immunity to be gained starts to drop away, obviously the puppy is increasingly at risk, but as they are all different (and the only real way to know what the puppies NEEDS is via titre testing the individual puppy - expensive!) it's felt best to wait until 8 weeks before externally vaccinating, by which time it should be reasonably certain the vaccination will 'take'.   Done too soon with natural immunity still there, it won't and is pointless.   The 2 week gap (sometimes 3 depending on the vet) is to repeat the vaccination in the hope the second set will take even if the first set didn't.   Belt and braces.  Although some vets just vaccinate against Parvo/Lepto with the first set and do the full set next time.

If a puppy hasn't received the colostrum, then it's usual that it will be given an interim external vaccination, against Parvo and Leptospirosis, at around 6 weeks.

No puppy can safely go off his property, or should, until the full set of vaccination has been given.   We also restricted where our adults went off to be exercised as even healthy dogs, utd with boosters, can walk infection back into the home - as you can on your shoes in fact.

I hope this helps!!  But as always, be guided by your vet.   

ps   We now have the full sets of puppy vaccination given, and booster 12 months on.   After that mine are now on 3-yearly boosters, apart from the one for Lepto. which dips and is felt needed to be boostered annually.   Rabies annually in those countries living with this disease and according to local laws - the reality suggests this too is only really needed 3-yearly.   And then there's what Boarding Kennels require.

Provided the puppies took mum's first milk (the colostrum) which is where the natural immunity comes from (provided mum has been utd with her boosters prior to being mated!)

Can you point me in the direction of the research that shows that bitches require a vaccination protoccol to pass on Maternal immunity, thanks ?

>Can you point me in the direction of the research that shows that bitches require a vaccination protoccol to pass on Maternal immunity, thanks ?

Can't remember where I read it years ago, but it was advised not to booster bitches before mating as this actually interfered with her passing on her immunity to the puppies.

I know I read this study back before I had a computer, so before 2000.

So I'm off to google to see if my mind is playing tricks.;)

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-CHG-VACC-PROTOCOLS.HTM

The above gives the most up to date information about vaccine protocols.
Incidentally you cannot booster immunity it is a myth, and most of the core vaccines given at the right time, have been proven to last at least 7 years and in most cases the lifetime of the dog.
The only full proof way to test if the dog has immunity is to titre test.
Over vaccinating every year or even every three is more likely to compromise the immune system, most vets know this but it is a way of getting people in every year for a health test, and not losing income.
The annual vaccination was just a timescale the drug manufactures picked out of the air when vaccines were first used, they had no way of knowing how long they would give immunity for.
Dr Shultz is the worlds leading expert on immunology and has done far more research over 30 years, far more than any of the  drug companies who have a vested interest in selling more vaccines.
If you google him, links to his studies all carried out within a university and fully documented, or if anyone would like further links to scientific studies PM me and I can forward them.

Nice to see this information being spread.  If vets won't stop annual vaccinations, even though they know that they are damaging our dog's health, then we need to make sure that dog owners know the risks.  The WSAVA Guidelines say that boosters (misnomer) should only be given IF NEEDED.  In other words titre test.  If your dog doesn't need another injection of neurotoxins and immune stimulants why would any sensible owner give it?

;