as far as i am aware i didnt think you needed a rabies jab to go to show dogs in southern irel;and but someone has told me you do So rang the irish K/C and she didnt know?? so does anyone know?

According to DEFRA and the Irish Government you need a full pet passport to travel between EU member states, and that includes between the UK and Eire.

so does that mean i need rabies?

In theory, yes.

It's not in theory, all dogs/cats etc travelling between Ireland & the UK(incl N Ireland)must have a full Pet Pasport including the rabies shot, but exempt from the tapeworm treatmant

Why including Northern Ireland (are you sure) which like the Channel islands, Scottish Islands is part of the UK???

Or do you mean 6you need |pet Passport to travel from Ulster to Eire, which is correct, though I have no idea if they have border controls to enforce that.

Dogs need a full Pet Passport to travel from Ireland(as in Eire)to the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland to give the correct title including the Rabies vaccine. The Isle of Man & the Channel Islands are Crown Dependencies & as such are classed under the Pet Travel scheme rules as part of the UK of GB & NI & therefore travel between them & the UK does NOT require a full Pet Passport.

The Scottish Islands are NOT Crown dependencies, they are not the same as IOM & the Channel Islands & are also classed as part of the UK.

It is being enforced allegedly to reduce the trafficking in puppy farmed dogs from Ireland(as in Eire)to the UK. The Irish government may apply for derogation of the PP rules between UK & itself, but the Westminster Government has stated it will uphold & enforce the PP rules

Yes I am sure BTW this is causing bona fide dog rescues extra time & expense as puppies have now to be 15 weeks old before they can be sent out of Ireland

>Yes I am sure BTW this is causing bona fide dog rescues extra time & expense as puppies have now to be 15 weeks old before they can be sent out of Irelan

I have always been against this practise of importing rescue dogs.

First we deal with our own homeless dogs, of which there is an excess.

By all means financially support rescues in a given country if you wish, but not by importing their problem here.

> Yes I am sure BTW this is causing bona fide dog rescues extra time & expense as puppies have now to be 15 weeks old before they can be sent out of Ireland

On the plus side, DEFRA is about to change the Pet Passport itself, in a format which can't be faked or forged, and will be clarifying the previously ambiguous rabies vacc age, to 12 weeks minimum.

>Yes I am sure BTW this is causing bona fide dog rescues extra time & expense as puppies have now to be 15 weeks old before they can be sent out of Ireland

But they're not, are they? Nothing has changed 'on the ground' despite the change in the law.

Agree or disagree over the principle of importing rescue dogs.

I doubt it will have a great effect other than the 3 week wait and cost of the pet Passport and Rabies vaccination (isn't the actual passport free in Eire, I seem to remember a poster stating a while back).

What proportion of rescues are likely to be puppies under 15 weeks?

>What proportion of rescues are likely to be puppies under 15 weeks?

I'd also like to know this.

It seems highly unlikely to me, that there would be very many rescue puppies of this age,  especially if there is a regular supply.

And if this is what is being brought into the uk regularly as rescues, then I would question the whole principle of rescues.    In fact, I find the whole idea of importing rescue dogs decidedly wrong.   

At what point does an 'animal shelter' or 'rescue' become a purveyor or dealer of dogs?   If an animal rescue charity is importing stock from another country, to be sold in the uk*, then that implies that 'rescue shelters'  are making enough money to make it worthwhile, since it's an expensive process.

*  whilst the rescue/shelter may call it adoption,  and the fees called donations, if money changes hands, then it is still a sale.  

My view exactly, and one organisation that does this isn't even a charity, but it's name implies otherwise.

Well the one I know of is Bona Fide registered charity & it HAS caused them problems. In Ireland certain breeds or types of dogs are treated like sh@t & face death in an unpleasant way over there. These are NOT staffie types BTW.

The vast majority of the dogs they deal with are young puppies that are abandoned frequently. The Rabies shots for the PP are not free-so how anyone can say the PP is free is wrong.

The vast majority of dogs in all breed rescues are either designer dogs or status bull breed types here in the UK & for many people they are not suitable.

Puppies & dogs in rescue here in the UK do not face a painful death-how many puppies are left to starve, beaten to death, drowned etc here in the UK ? Not many yet it is a way of life in certain countries.

I personally would not want(nor would they suit my lifestyle)a designer breed or status bull breed type.

Most people adopting from the rescue I know of take part in dog activities, other than breed shows, very successfully & like me would not look to find a dog/puppy here in the UK.

As it happens I do have a rescue dog from here in the UK who I found after years of looking, despite the fact that there are 1,000s of dogs in rescues over here I was not considered "suitable" for a myriad of reasons for "official" UK rescues, none of which would affect the quality of life they dogs enjoy.

There are plenty of "fake" rescues here in the UK(one is a limited company & not a registered charity)& another is one of the worst environs for any dogs let alone rescues & it is a registered UK charity & despite being investigated by the "authorities" is still in operation & their official face is totally false.

I've never shown a dog simply for it's outer looks nor have I bred a litter simply for a puppy to show for it's outer looks. I'm at a stage in my life where I can offer help to dogs who otherwise would face an uncertain possibly painful future & death

The Irish PP are already the new type

Puppies & dogs in rescue here in the UK do not face a painful death-how many puppies are left to starve, beaten to death, drowned etc here in the UK ? Not many yet it is a way of life in certain countries.

Over the many years of seeing how things have changed, regarding rescue dogs,  I have come to the awful conclusion that this is partly the problem :-(

If Joe and Jane Public knew that dumping a dog in rescue was likely to lead to a painful death, or even certain death,  would they be so quick to take on a dog, and then dump it in rescue?

It seems to me, the more rescues there have been, the more dogs there are to fill them.    Years ago, if you didn't want your dog, there were few rescues, so few options for an easy solution.  

Now, with the romanticising of rescue organisations by media programmes,  which are just basically a form of advertising for rescues,  it  seems less of a bad thing to do, after all, the nice people at the rescues will pick up the pieces, and the dog will find another lovely new owner - if the propaganda programmes are to be believed.

And meanwhile, the volume puppy producers keep churning out their produce.

I've never shown a dog simply for it's outer looks nor have I bred a litter simply for a puppy to show for it's outer looks.

That's a great pity, if you had, you might have more understanding of what is involved, and why the breeders of well bred pups are so choosy about how they breed and where they place the pups.   Not so the puppy producers, they don't really care what the dog 'looks' like, as long as it looks roughly ok and sells quickly, and they can produce more.   And they certainly don't care about forever homes, as long as they can keep selling more pups.   And to this end, the rescue organisations are perfect facilitators

Oh dear Dill, you are making the assumption that my dogs are of the "working" type & not bred to the "breed" standard that could win in the show ring & that I have bred simply to make money & not care where the puppies go

It is still quite possible to breed a dog that can work & fit the "breed" standard & be fully health tested. Health testing & breed type are not the sole preserve of the conformation exhibitor/breeder.

You know nothing about me or my dogs(past & present)& despite one of the mods on here believing they know me & that I have posted here before under another user name(which I haven't BTW)I have been involved in dogs & responsible breeding & health testing etc, for a very long time.

One of my Irish rescue dogs is actually doing the job his breed was developed to do & although he wouldn't be successful in the current show ring as he is not of the type the top breeders like & promote as correct, he nevertheless easily recognisable as his breed & probably more typical that 99% of current show dogs if truth be known

Oh dear Dill, you are making the assumption that my dogs are of the "working" type & not bred to the "breed" standard that could win in the show ring & that I have bred simply to make money & not care where the puppies go

You've made quite a big assumption there yourself Tommee!

I made no such assumptions, I merely answered what you had written, which appeared to me to be that you had not shown or bred.

If anyone knows about dual bred dogs, I do.   My own dogs are from dual working/show lines, all fully health tested.   I don't work my own dogs for health reasons (my own health, not theirs)   but they are quite capable of doing so, and certainly willing, given half a chance.  They have however, been shown at Ch level and done very nicely.

>The Rabies shots for the PP are not free-so how anyone can say the PP is free is wrong.<br />

No the Pet passports themselves in Eire, I was told were free, they cost around £50 here on top of the Rabies and the vet consult.

the vast majority of dogs in rescue are not bred by people who are interes5tedin show or work and placing their puppies properly, hence why even at a young age they end up unwanted and in need of rescue, otherwise the breeders would be taking care of them.

So it matters not whether the breeder bred for show or work, it's the responsibility shown when breeding and homing, and being willing to pick up the pieces if things don't work out, hence no need for recourse to a rescue.

My dogs PPs were free from my vets & will continue to be so(have asked them)

I've had rescues bred by show breeders who were not interested in them & they were/are successful show exhibitors. Interestingly one rescue actually had 5 very young puppies handed in by someone & when I did the trace on their microchips they were bred by one of the top kennels in that breed & were surplus to requirements as they were not "show" quality when compared to the show dogs, when they were contacted, they denied that they had bred them !!! Good job the rescue was there to mop up the leavings & no they don't want to report the kennels as they fear a worse fate could await future surplus products :-(

I made no such assumptions, I merely answered what you had written, which appeared to me to be that you had not shown or bred.

Because I wrote "I've never shown a dog simply for it's outer looks nor have I bred a litter simply for a puppy to show for it's outer looks." I did not write "I have never shown a dog, nor that I had never bred a puppy"  ergo you simply assumed that I hadn't done either !

Now, with the romanticising of rescue organisations by media programmes,  which are just basically a form of advertising for rescues,  it  seems less of a bad thing to do, after all, the nice people at the rescues will pick up the pieces, and the dog will find another lovely new owner - if the propaganda programmes are to be believed.

Not all such TV programs show all the dogs being rehomed, certainly the programs from the US, Australia & New Zealand have shown dogs(even puppies)being PTS, & there was a UK one that showed dogs being PTS that "could not" be rehomed for whatever reason

Successful does not sadly mean responsible in all cases, though I'd hope breed clubs would kick such people out and the other breeders would not wish to be associated with them.

Same in the working field sadly, and I'd hope they were the minority.  I certainly would think such behaviour would bring the canine world into disrepute and ought to be reported to the Breed clubs and Kennel Clubs involved.

The UK kennel clubs general code of ethics states:

4. Will agree that no healthy puppy will be culled. Puppies which may not conform to the Breed Standard should be placed in suitable homes

10. Will only sell dogs where there is a reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will help with the re-homing of a dog if the initial circumstances change

the vast majority of dogs in rescue are not bred by people who are interes5tedin show or work and placing their puppies properly, hence why even at a young age they end up unwanted and in need of rescue, otherwise the breeders would be taking care of them.

So it matters not whether the breeder bred for show or work, it's the responsibility shown when breeding and homing, and being willing to pick up the pieces if things don't work out, hence no need for recourse to a rescue.

Absolutely!

I made no such assumptions, I merely answered what you had written, which appeared to me to be that you had not shown or bred.

Because I wrote "I've never shown a dog simply for it's outer looks nor have I bred a litter simply for a puppy to show for it's outer looks." I did not write "I have never shown a dog, nor that I had never bred a puppy" ergo you simply assumed that I hadn't done either !

Of course I did,  I had no other information.   Of course, I could have made another assumption,  that you had never bothered with the expense of showing and bred without any regard to breed standards, but I preferred to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps I should go out and buy a crystal ball, then I'd know exactly what was being said, even when it's not being said?