Where do I stand with my rights?
I bought a puppy about two months ago.
I had her checked out by my vet who said that she seemed fine, she had her first vaccination which was after two days of having her.
She has had diarrhoea on and off ever since I have had her and is becoming chronic as she gets older. At first I thought that this was a reaction to her first vaccination. But now I believe it to be medical.
My vet thought that it might be dietary related. Although I had not changed her diet from what her breeder told me (and supplied me with) that she was being feed on. So my vet put her on to 'Canine i/d food' and medicine, this however is having no affect.
She is very irregular with her toileting, it sometimes being up to 16 - 17 hours after food that she goes, and when she does it is diarrhoea. She is lively and happy and doesn't appear unwell.
When purchasing my puppy I had to sign a contract which stated that I should get her checked over by a vet within 5 days of purchase and that I could bring her back within a week for a full refund is she was deemed unfit for sale by a vet. If at anytime I decided that I no longer wanted to keep her then I would have to tell the breeder who would then either take her back and / or help rehome, her but obviously without a refund.
I do know that when you buy a pet you take on responsibility for him/her and that they can be very expensive amongst other things. But I do believe that I was sold a puppy that wasn't in good health.
I have been hit by a lot of expensive vet bills since I have had her, and I feel that my other pets are losing out to much, they all get on well, but I can see that it's getting them down to have sleep with a dog that has bad diarrhoea and its not hygienic for them either - I do clean up immediately.
I have (after a lot of heartache) decided that I will have to return her.
What I would like to know is how do I stand as regards my rights in returning her as I do believe that she had underlying health concerns which started before I purchased her. Is there anyway that I could claim a refund. I haven't spoken to her breeder yet but I would really like to know where I stand legally.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can advise and help me.

i would first of all speak to the breeder, and see what he/she has to say,if you have made your mind to return the puppy,its best to do it sooner rather than later, normally breeders will take a puppy back and resell it then , refund you your money, but you are not garenteed your full purchase price , as some breeders will take readvertising fees,board etc..from the original price you payed. did your vet say the puppy was unwell when you had him checked over,or did he become ill after his first injection, i myself as a breeder would work with the new owner to try and find what was wrong with the puppy but if the new owner felt she did not want to keep the puppy i would take the puppy back and firstly make sure the puppy was 100% well before been rehomed,i would give a refund . but all breeders are not as willing to do this. you must ring your breeder first and see what he says,you never know he might ask you to return the puppy and give you a refund straight away,
let me know the outcome, dont put it off ring today, the longer you leave it , the longer you will worry what your breeder will say,you wont know till you ring him joanne

Goodness me, you must know some unpleasant breeders. Take out advetising costs, resell the puppy? I dontthink any reputable breeder would do this, unless they are extremely money orientated. The breeder was generous in giving the purchaser 5 days to get the pup checked over. Most breeders say three days at the most, to cover weekend purchasers. If the vet gave the pup a clean bill of health, then it is not the breeders fault. If anything the purchaser was silly not to take out vet. insurance, then she wouldnt have run up large vet bills. If the purchaser is not happy with the vets treatment, ask for a referal and second opinion. If it was a pup that was being returned to me, firstly I would try a diet adjustment, and would not even CONSIDER rehoming the pup until it was better, let alone sell it. My humble opinion is that you buy a pet, do your homework first, find a reputable breeder, have the pup checked by a vet immediately after purchase, and then, if the animal developes problems its down to the owner to look after them, sfter all, who would you return a child to if it had health problems. Im shutting up now, before I get myself banned :(

I have never resold a returned puppy, I am really happy when I eventually find a knowledgeable home for him or her, as there are plenty of young pups and older dogs in rescue for little more than a donation. I 0only sell a dog the once.

If the pup was passed fit by your vet prior to vaccination, and the probelms did not commence until after then how could the breeder be expected to forsee the pup having a problem.

Puppiea re living creatures and their development is governed in part by genetics, food and environment.

The breeder can only be responsible for the care of the pup while it is with them, and the health and suitability of it's parents as breeding stock. Only if the problem the pup is having could be forseen, ie parents have similar problems or previous litters, then how can the breeder be reasonably be expected to be blamed.

A living creature, like our children cannot be quaranteed probelem free, like a washing machine.

dear philippa,
yes i do know of some breeders that will take out advertising cost,board and even petrol expenses, if they need to pick the puppy up,i'm not saying i would do this i would'nt.also im not saying the breeder is a fault , i myself would have some test's done on the puppy to find exactly what the problem is.and then i would know where i stood. i would only rehome the puppy when she was 100% fit,no way would i sell a puppy that had a health problem, when i sell a puppy i ask the new owner to sign to say thatif there circumstances change , and they find they can no longer keep the pup or adult, they must firstly let me know and if i can take the dog back{space permiting} i will what ever there age.if not i will assist in rehoming the dog/puppy, after all i bred the dog and feel even though not living with me i as a breeder still have a responsibilty to make sure the dog is at all times well cared for through its whole life,can i ask brainless when you have a puppy returned do you give the original purchaser a refund , as you say you only sell a puppy once,if you do refund then your going to be out of pocket, if you rehome for free to the next home.a situation i was in once was i sold a pup to a couple then three years later the couple split and could no longer keep the dog so i took the dog back, kept him in my home for six weeks , then started to look for a new home for him, he is now living in his new home and the new owners are over the moon with him they say he his a wonderful little dog with a great personality, i treat people the way i would like to be treat, after all these puppys did not asked to bred, and i feel i am responsible for them till the end .even though they live in new homes with new familys.carrie needs to ring her breeder and see what he has to say. he may be very helpful and be able to give her some advice but like you say some breeder 's are very money minded, and once they sell a puppy that is it,believe me this is through, personal experience's with unreputable breeders not everyone is in it for the good of there breed. joanne

When I have physically had a puppy back then I have rehomed free of charde. When I have had the owners ask me to help them rehome the pup I have put prospective (vetted) new owner (usually from prospective puppy owner list) and relinquisher together, and they have come to their own arrangements. When asked what a fair price for a pup under a year was the consensus was about 60% of the original purchase price, once over a year then half or less.

I find that I would hate the responsibility of taking money for a dog for whose health and upbringing I had not been responsible for since it was tiny. As a baby puppy reared and looked after me I know what I am selling, later after it has had experiences outside my control, I just don't feel comfortable selling second hand.

so does this mean when you take a puppy back in to your home you refund, then rehome free of charge joanne

Hiya, yes thats what I would do, and would explain to the new owner the full set of circumstances of how we came to have the pup back. Also would probably write some extra clause into their contract.

No I do not refund when I have a pup back, unless of course there was something found to be wrong with it in the first days it was with the owner.

After all, it is their decision to part with the dog, why should I bear the financial consequence of their change of heart or circumstances.

As I have said above if they feel they want me to help them find a new home, and the new owner is happy to pay them something for the dog then that is fine, but once I take on the full responsibility for the dog again, I don't make refunds, as I have no idea what will happen with the pup, it might not be homed for months, and to be honest finding a good home for such a dog is hard enough without expecting payment! I feel that when the new owner takes an older dog warts and all, then the fact that they didn't have to pay for it will make them more tolerant of any problems the older pup causes them. It is likely to have some bad habits, or habits that do not fit in with their routine, which with a baby pup they would have trained to their ways.

I guess I'm an unpleasant breeder then :( I have only had one pup returned at about 10 months and as agreed in the puppies contract after a couple of weeks back in my house he was resold, my expenses were deducted and the remainder passed to the first purchasers. Mindfull that the contract is not enforceable by law I feel it is important to offer a financial encouragement to ensure that a pup will be returned and not sold through the free press for instance. Obviously this pup was not unwell, it was a change of circumstances situation, so I kept him for the mimium amount of time that I felt I could in order for him not to become too attached to our home adding to his distress to be on the move again. I charged the new owners (about £50 less than a puppy price) because I personally don't think it a good idea for someone to get a pup for free they were and have continued to be delighted with him, the original owners also found it helpful to get some of their original purchase money back. I did not feel there was any reason I should be out of pocket by not deducting my expenses it certainly did not seem to deduct from everyones satisfaction with the outcome.

Hello, First of all, I hope your new pup gets better, don't do anything rash. If you have formed a bond with your puppy ("after a lot of heartache") then think of how this will affect him, he is only young and need support and love and has most likely formed a bond with you as well. I would agree that this is most likely a reaction to his first vaccinations, as I had a similar experience with one of mine.
Good luck with your pup anyway.

After reading through some other peoples posting I, a domestic pet owner (I don't breed and I don't show) would like to add my views and questions....

As regards to a posting saying "My humble opinion is that you buy a pet, do your homework first, find a reputable breeder, have the pup checked by a vet immediately after purchase, and then, if the animal developes problems its down to the owner to look after them, sfter all, who would you return a child to if it had health problems."

I would like to state that having a child and a pet are two totally different things. You can, and should, love your pet as a member of your family, as I indeed do. But...

First, you do Not pay to have a child. You Do pay money for a pet.

My view is that if you are paying for something you should expect it to be ok and have some come-back. Pets are living creatures, yes. But in comparing the two there are some subtle differences. If buying a puppy is the same as having a child then I would have to wonder to myself how it could be legal to 'sell' them for money at all, you can not legally buy a child.

You also don't have to sign away your rights in the form of a contract in order to have a child.
Surely if a breeder is confident that their breeding is good enough, then why put such a clause of, only a few days (quote) "to cover weekend purchasers" in which the puppy can be returned for a refund. In my opinion a breeder should check out a prospective new owner for one of their puppies just as thoroughly as a buyer should, therefore you would think this clause should not be necessary.

A person is totally reliant on the breeder to be honest and open as regards buying a pet. Even research into the breeders do not help in all cases as some, not all, but some breeders tend to 'stick up for their kind'.

I know of friends, and myself included, who are actually recommended by (different) vets to wait at least three to six day before bring a newly owned puppy into the veterinarian surgery to be vaccinated and checked over (unless the puppy is showing signs of being unwell). This is to allow the puppy to try to adjust to their new home and family (I think).

As regards to another posting "A living creature, like our children cannot be guaranteed problem free, like a washing machine."
I would like to point out that you do PAY for a washing machine so therefore you would like a guarantee of some kind with its purchase, surely?

Finally. Yes, I do believe that you are responsible in both cases, for a pet as well as a child, after all both need care and love.

Hi furry, the posting you are refering to is mine, and I think you have taken it out of context. I DIDNT comapre a dog to a child, it was just an observation, and yes, you do have to pay for a child. Not in the same way as you do when buying a pet, but in toys clothes, schooling perhaphs. Most ( not all) breeders give 3-5 days to have the pup inspected by a vet, because once they are away from the breeders premises they are vunerable to disease. I agree with you that if you pay for something you expect it to be correct, but this particular puppy WAS. It past the vet check, and only developed problems after its first vaccination, or it could of been the diet, or it could be an infection. Why oh why, do people ALWAYS blame the breeder?
Yes, there are bad breeders, but this one wasnt. She did everything by the book. Advised a vet check, gave the owner time to get the check done, and is now willing to take the puppy back, what more can any breeder do? Hyperthetically, if I wanted to buy a pup, I would check out the breeder as well as I could, get the pup vet checked, and after that, if something goes wrong, it would be down to ME to sort it out, not try and pass the responsibility to someone else. In all fairness, if you dont breed, and dont show, are you really in a position to pass judgement on a breeder like that?

Paying to have a child????
At the risk of raising ire --- yep, ya do :) Not always in cash, but the body definitely suffers :D
And if you don't have full health insurance in the US, having a baby is extremely pricy. $5,000 and upwards, depending if there are complications during birth. It took almost 6 years for my niece's birth to be 'paid off' :( Even paying for insurance 'counts' as costs for a child...and it adds up ;) And the baby doesn't wait for the money to appear before needing new 'stuff' ;) :rolleyes:

Adoption?????? Now that is a LOT of money + paperwork. There's been so many adoptions too where the new parents discover that the baby/child have serious and expensive health/emotional problems which 'love' just doesn't fix. No give back there, either...unless they reliquish to the State and that causes a huge guilt and headache complex :(

Can you believe that there are parents out there who actually think that their children are 'investments' for the future and will eventually be paid back with interest???? The mind boggles :rolleyes:

Carrie

I agree you need to talk to the breeder to see what they think. Quite often breeders put things in after sales contracts that might seem quite harsh - but in reality - they will do all they can to ensure you have the happy healthy pup you wanted. If absolutely necessary and they can sell the pup on, they will often refund what they can to you even if the contract says they won't. Obviously this depends on the breeder. At the end of the day - unless you can prove it was unhealthy from the start - they have no obligation to refund you anything. Did the pup come with insurance cover? If so what will that cover you for?

From your own admission - the vet said the puppy was fine at check up so to blame the breeder for selling an unhealthy pup seems bit unfair - imho. Has the vet suggested or performed any other tests to see what might be the problem? Are you absolutely sure she's not picking up something that she shouldn't, maybe from one of your other pets. What other pets do you have - is she eating some of their food at all. Sorry if you have been througyh all this with your vet - but there must be some reason why your baby has developed diarrhoea and for it to be so persitent. It may well have been present when you bought her, but could still be something in her current environment. The breeder may suggest they take her back to see if there is any change. If there is then that would clearly suggest there is something in your home that is upsetting her and would help you to look further to find what it is. If she doesn't get any better - then again, it would suggest that there is something wrong with her that would warrant more tests.

This is a difficult situation for all concerned. PLease do talk to the breeder and see where that takes you.

Good luck - and please do let us know how it goes.

Pam n the boys

I bought a puppy and she developed stomach problems, diarrehea, etc. First the Vet blamed the diet , then the breeder. Found out later from another Vet she had had an allergic reation to the vaccination.

I would say that this pup's diarrhoea was almost certainly caused by a reaction to the vaccination. It has happened with three of my dogs over the years, and the circumstances have been too similar to be a coincidence. For the latest one the vet prescribed some excellent tablets, can't recall the correct name at the moment but it was something like metrodiazonone (?). These, together with feeding Hills Precription Diet for a few months sorted the problem out very effectively.

If the vet pronounced the puppy was fit, then there you have it. Although reputable breeders will always try and help out, they don't have too. If it's KC registered then you should have had 2 weeks kennel club insurance to cover large vets bills, but it may be that you have had lots of small ones rather than a large one.

Now I'm no vet, but it sounds more like she has loose poo, rather than diarrhoea. If she had that she wouldn't still be alive. Loose poo is sometimes brought on by all sorts of things, from additives in food and treats, to eating other stuff around the house, stealing food, kids feeding her under the table etc. I had this once when my girlfriend started treating mine with so-called natural treats from petsmart, only to find they were full of all sorts of stuff. It was pure luck that she happened to produce one at the vets to give to the dog on the table for keeping still, and the vet took one look at them and said 'there's your problem, look at the colour of them, it's artificial'. He was right too, we stopped all treats, scraps etc, and it was cured. So have a careful think about all possibilities before you make any rash decisions.

A pup will quite regularly get diarrhoea, as the others say, through any number of causes. They pinch the cat's food; they eat the cat's poo (!!); they react to injections; they react to wormers (can be a bad one); they are allergic to the lactose in milk (quite common); they drink out of puddles containing bugs (in the broadest sense of the word).

I would take the pup's health as priority - my very first stop would be a faeces sample to the vets for analysis, followed hard on the heels by a dose of pro-biotic powder from the vets (or failing that, the health food shop ; or some live yogurt in moderation- preferably sheep's milk yogurt from Sainsbury's. Then 24 hours without food (sorry pup) followed by a light diet of chicken and rice.

If you are so fed up with the pup that you can't go through all this, I think the best thing would be to return to the breeder, but you're not guaranteed any refund unless this was understood in your puppy contract.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hi, I agree with Jo, you have taken on this puppy and either you return it to the breeder or you do your very best to get it better. If the only symptoms are looseness and the puppy is happy and lively it is almost certainly its diet that needs attention. Some individuals are more prone to looseness/gas than others - same as people and there will almost certainly be a solution. The puppy was fit and healthy when you bought it, and so its not the breeders fault. I am not saying its yours, just that you should take responsibility for it. I would follow Jo's advice re: diet and the pro-biotics and do come back for more advice if you would like to, we are here to help not condemn, but this is YOUR resonsibility and if you didnt get insurance you will have to bear the cost.

Pups going into a new household often get tummy upsets because the germs & bugs in the new home are different to those in the home they came from. It is likely that your other pets have germs & bugs that they are immune to but the pup is not. When we have a pup with a upset tummy we sometimes make matters worse by trying different foods but not looking to see if there is some other cause, poo eating, licking other dogs or cats, sleeping with other dogs & cats, shareing bowls of food or water. Try keeping the pup away from other animals, watching it dose not pick things up and feeding just one food, no treats or chews not even milk. A little yoghurt is OK. Your pets will have to meet sometimes but only when you are there and don't allow the pup to become over excited or over tired. If you can't cope then it would be best to let the breeder have the pup back, but don't expect a refund although you may get something, depends how long it takes the breeder to get the pup well and to a standard of control that will be needed for it to be rehomed.
Ja:)kie

My friends Rott had real soft poop, pretty runny. She was trying all sorts of different food, and put her on a fish and meat food. (Cangrow fish and meat). She was also told to cut back the amount of water because to much water could make her poop runny/soft (not to sure how true that is), but she did this and now Rossell has firmer stool.
I had Tiva on purina and she just had the poops I was told it had to much cornmeal in it so I slowely swithched her to, put her on a lamb and rice (eukanuba) and she hardened up real fast. This food worked for me. I also never gave anything else like treats or anything until her stool was back to normal, then even now they are only allowed one treat and all the icecubes they want.
Hope your little one gets better. :)

...ice cubes, Dollface??? Do you feed ice cubes??? ;-)

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Know you did not say withold water Dollface but just in case someone misunderstood - Never withold water from a dog with diarrhoea.

Yes your right I never said with hold water, thanks for putting that though incase someone misunderstood... :)

Yes I give my dogs icecubes all the time. When they hear the freezer they all come running. They think they are treats, and I don't mind they are not fattening and can have as much as they like. They really love them in the summer, I don't offer them as much in the winter, they just bug us to go outside alot and eat snow. My dogs just love them... Just plain frozen water, I guess what they don't know don't hurt them lol ;)

I would definitley think it was tied in with the vaccinations,its very sad that you feel you cant keep him because the health problem needs sorting out,it cant be pleasant for the baby pup to have the runs,and also if your getting stressed out with it it wont help the puppy.
I always think we vaccinate far to early, people dash of to the vet say with an 8 weeks old pup I never vaccinate till at least ten weeks.That is purely my choice of course.
What breed is the puppy?