First off, I know it's within the rules, and no, my dog didn't go lame between the classes. At todays show (Breed Club Open) I had my 17 month old entered in Junior, Yearling and Novice. He got a 1st and two 2nds. I'd rather have come away with three 2nds, it would have felt more honest. The judge reversed her decision on my dog and the dog he beat to second in Junior, in the Novice class. Now I'm left feeling that if the judge feels she made a mistake in Junior, my boy didnt deserve to keep his first prize. I'd have been over the moon with three seconds, but this has left me feeling awkward. The poor owner of the other dog has been robbed of a JW point and that might matter when he's 18 months old. I feel horrible tonight.

It was probably a close call, and your dog showed better than the other in the class that he beat the other dog in.

No different to what can happen in the challenge when one of the winners just goes totally off the boil.

Had this happen when my puppy won the CC and BOB at a championship show, the judge had wanted to give it to the adult male, but he just would not show in the challenge and he had no option but to give it to my immature young exhibit.

The other dog may well have been mucking about in the first class and settled in the second class, whereas your dog either stayed the same or perhaps even got a bit tired and didn't show quite as well. It's unusual, but not unheard of. Don't feel guilty over it, you haven't robbed the other dog of anything, they have to beat the dog at that particular moment, and yours was better just then. :-)

I kind of see two sides to this one... the dog's structure didn't change between classes so there's no reason the judge should change their decision but on the other hand the judge may have seen something they hadn't noticed before or the other dog started showing better. It sounds like the judge was actually being more honest than dishonest to me.

I've judged dogs where a novice handler moved the dog too slowly and let it pace for the entire gaiting pattern, even when I asked them to repeat it and couldn't place the dog as a result. In a later class someone else brought the same dog in and when they picked up the pace and the dog gaited, it turned out the dog had stunning movement. These things happen sometimes, and the judge can only work with what they're presented in the ring at the time.

Just to clarify, I am not for a moment suggesting that the judge was dishonest. My mentioning honesty was in relation to the way I felt in that the other dog had been denied a JW point.

The judge can only go off what is put in front of them in the class, obviously structurally the dogs are still the same but the movement and behaviour may well have been different.  That is showing and possibly the handler who was second to your first may have had a bit of a shock being beaten and worked harder in the later class...

>the handler who was second to your first may have had a bit of a shock being beaten and worked harder in the later class...

It's the OP whose dog was 'moved up' a place, so probably as with many young dogs the dog settled more in the alter class and showed itself to better advantage when the quality of the dogs was close.

Of course the other dog may have got bored or gone lame, moved poorly second time around.

My take on that is the judge lost the plot!!   And the ring steward should have pointed out that she had reversed the decision, to give the judge a chance to rethink what they were doing.   Both of you were entitled to an explanation after the judging finished .... it may all come clear if this judge submits a critique!!  Trouble is even at a Club Open Show, the judges are still novices, and I've sometimes seen decisions like this happen.  

I have only ever had this happen once and the judge was well aware what they had done and did explain themselves.

I have seen it happen on other occasions and the judges again knew well what they had done.

No Barbara, my dog was moved down a place in the later class. The dog that stood second to mine in Junior, beat mine in Novice. I asked the Steward straight away "does she know she's reversed her previous decision"?   He said, yes she does, she just asked me if it's allowed. I wanted to ask her after judging had finished, what was it that made her change her mind, but I didn't want to look petty or to put her in an awkward position. I really hope she makes it clear in her critique, because the more I think about this the more I think it shouldn't have happened. There was nothing in the performance of either dog that made it obvious why it happened. That makes me think she simply changed her mind about some detail or other.

Don't worry, just put it down to the 'madness' of judges ;-) maybe she felt it would be fairer ;-) if you both won classes. Some people really don't understand what they are doing!

Many years ago a novice exhibitor put her bitch into just about every class at a breed club show. It was constantly beaten, until open, which it won, sadly against a number of bitches clearly better than it. The judge really didn't progress on her her judging career from that point......

The judge really didn't progress on her her judging career from that point......

This is what should happen with situations like this ----- walk with feet.   Another for the little black book.   Novice judges are watched so hopefully, they don't 'progress'.

This has happened to me. My dog was placed 2nd in the first class, a tannoy going off at the wrong moment unsettled her. The decision was reversed in the 2nd class because she had recovered and the judge had preferred her although it was a close call according to the judge.

I have never seen that happen before. Hopefully the critiques will make it clear.

I saw a judge withold some placings once and the people asked him afterwards why he witheld.

In Europe when you do critiques on the day for every dog, it is usual for exhibitors to ask you questions about what you have written.

I have known it done twice.  The second time, the judge was my mother.  A close decision in one of the lower classes was reversed in a later class, as the winner of the first class had completely packed up showing.  My mother explained her reasoning to the young handler, and he accepted the decision very graciously.  She knew exactly what she was doing, and why.  I have never known her do it before, or after.

The Judge's report has just appeared online and the plot thickens. I had hoped that I might get an explaination. However the Judge has reported that my dog won both classes!!!! I'm so frustrated.

Dawn R.

I think this might be a time to contact the judge by letter or e-mail and ask for clarification due to the report.

I have seen this happen and the dog that was 2nd in the first class, moved better in the next class to beat the dog that had beaten it in the first class, the judge did say that it settled and moved like that in the first class it would of won that one too.

The Judge's report has just appeared online and the plot thickens. I had hoped that I might get an explaination. However the Judge has reported that my dog won both classes!!!! I'm so frustrated.

I'd suggest at the very least, now this has been published, you are entitled to an explanation.   And this could so have been avoided had the RING STEWARD been on her toes and pointed out what was what in the later class before it was judged.   Most I've known would put 'seen dogs' apart from the new dogs, telling the judge what they did with the seen dogs in their previous classes - if the judge didn't remember!!!?

Clearly a novice judge?

ps   At the very least, being beaten in the later class, you were denied the ability to challenge for BOB!!

The Judge's report has just appeared online and the plot thickens. I had hoped that I might get an explaination. However the Judge has reported that my dog won both classes!!!! I'm so frustrated.

Dawn R.

Was it obvious who the judge had placed? Wondering if perhaps the judge ment to give it to you but the other person thought they were pointing at them by mistake. Some judges just point from the other side of the ring and it can be hard to tell who there pointing at. Seen people not sure sure if they were being pointed at or not and the judge had to point again.

Thanks everyone for your input. I've calmed down now, but I would still love to know why it happened. The thing is, the two dogs were switched deliberately and knowingly. I spoke to the steward before the prize cards were given out and asked if the judge knew that she had reversed her previous decision. The steward replied " oh yes, she has just asked me if it's allowed". It's 3 weeks ago now so I think I'll just leave it, I'd feel petty pressing the point now, but I'm still mildly irritated.

Dawn R.