This is an option that has been offered to me in the last few days, however I don't know much about the pros and cons of it. It has only been spoken about briefly but it has certainly given me something to think about. Basically my situation is that I want a pup to show but due to work, can't always make the shows (I work 2 weekends out of 4). I do already have one show dog (who technically belongs to my dad) but she is our first and my dad has pretty much taken over the handling of her, much to my disappointment, as I love handling! The breeder that has mentioned a co-ownership to me said that the dog would be owned by myself and herself but the dog would live with me (although I would not pay full price for the pup) - I don't know how things would work financially regarding show entries, vet bills, insurance (that is something i'd like advice on if possible - are there set 'rules' or a general consensus of who pays for what, or is it just what you agree on between yourselves?)

I am relatively new to showing having only been involved for 18 months or so, and this lady has much more experience and knowledge than I will ever probably have - so from a learning and 'newbie' point of view, I would think it could possibly be a good way of starting out. We only live a few miles apart & attend the same training clubs, so the 'physical' aspect of ownership would not be too much of an issue. Obviously I need to speak much further with her about it as it has only been briefly mentioned so far, but for my personal situation it certainly does have its benefits, and I am having a very serious think about it.

So, what are the general pros and cons? I know many people would not personally do it, but as a relative newbie who can't commit to attending loads and loads of shows (I also don't have a car at present, so actually getting to shows is a problem in itself if I am 'on my own' with a dog - and the dog will be of a different breed group to my dads show dog, so most champ shows will be on different days - including Crufts!).

The litter is not planned until much later in the year so I have got plenty of time to think about it and ask questions, and there is no pressure on me at all to say yes or no, but in principal it sounds a good idea for me personally - I just need some more experienced folks' opinions - I know co-ownership is not for everyone, but given my situation, what do you think? What are the general pros and cons - mainly the cons, as you can see, I have thought about how it could be beneficial to me, but there are probably a few negatives also that I have not thought of, and I really want to be able to make a well informed decision, either way.

Many thanks :)

I own a dog in partnership with a very good friend. He lives with me. I pay all the bills. :-) This will include all his relevant health tests when I get round to doing them. As to breeding, well we have an informal arrangement in that I would never let him be used without her input. I couldn't anyway without her say so as he is registered in both our names, but if I decided I wanted to use him, and she didn't, then I would accept her input and not do it. She bred him, so has the final say, as far as I am concerned.

I would say to you, get a solicitor to write everything up in a contract. This way you are both covered for the future, just in case of a fall out. So many friends fall out over co-ownership than anything else so be 150% that it is the right thing to do.

thank you - that is useful information :) a 'proper' agreement is probably well worth it as you do never know what will happen. Regarding breeding, I would let her make the decisions on that one as she is far more experienced than myself since i've never bred a litter! I'm not sure whether we would go for a dog or a bitch pup but certainly if it was a bitch, I would be happy for her to have her back to breed and rear the litter, depending on health tests of course.

What do you do about handling and such? I would love to be able to handle the dog myself but obviously the other lady has the most experience, i'm not sure if she would rather be seen to be handling the dog or if she would be okay with me handling it, as that is the part I miss most and if I can't handle the dog at the shows I could attend then that would certainly sway my decision massively. I would certainly love to have the other ladys' 'training' and input on how to handle the dog, but if she stipulated that she would be the sole handler then I would just be back in the same situation that I am with my dads dog (it was my idea to show her when we got her, i've wanted to get involved with dog showing since I was a child so was thrilled when he agreed to it - only after the first few months he asked if he could 'have a go' - and that was it, i've not handled her since Crufts last year, and really miss having a dog to show, sitting watching at the ringside gets annoying, especially when it was me who wanted to show in the first place!)

I show him, but my friend is there to do it if I can't (in loo for instance when the class is called ;-) ) We have both been showing for a long time though, so I think I know what I'm doing (honest? really??? ;-) ) If you make it clear from the beginning that you want to show the dog, and have this as part of the contract, and so long as both you and her breeder understand everything before you buy the dog you shouldn't really have a problem.

As to breeding. If you took a bitch, and decided to breed from her, is it fair to let her go to a home where she doesn't really know anyone? To mix with dogs she doesn't know? And to be in an environment that MAY have bugs that she isn't immune to? I couldn't do it myself. I would be worried that they weren't taking good care of her, even though I know my friend would do a good job :-) Or that she might catch something that would make her ill. But then I'm a worry wort :-) It really is something to think about and discuss.

There are usually a few people (myself included) that take more than one dog to a show and will sometimes be glad of an extra pair of hands. Especially if you have had to enter 2 dogs in the same class, and the person who was going to handle the second dog isn't anywhere to be found at the time needed. Make yourself known to people in your breed, or in others too if you are interested in them, and let them know that you would be happy to help out in the ring. I've nabbed people from my training classes as they have walked past the ring on the odd occasion.

I have to say that if at all possible I prefer to avoid arrangements like this - buying outright is usually far less complicated.   I was once offered co-ownership on two bitches by their breeder.   She flattered me saying she didn't do this with just anybody.   This wasn't exactly true!!    Having thought long and hard about this, and whether I wanted these bloodlines in any case, I decided agin.   Not only was she wanting me to use her stud dogs when the time came to mate them, but she also wanted pick puppies.   Nice - I did all the work, she sweeps in and walks off with presumably, the best.

If you go for this, and the cynic in me suggests that some breeders who have a promising male puppy but no room for another male, will welcome finding somebody to house the dog ......, do GET IT IN WRITING.   All the things like vet bills, entry fees, stud fees he might attract and so on.   Even with the best of friendships things can go wrong, leading to lots of problems.

By all means use her as a mentor, travel to shows together etc.etc. but for me I'd far rather buy this dog outright.  This does rather come under the heading of 'there are no free lunches' you know.

ps   Who knows whether there will actually BE a show-quality puppy in this planned litter, or whether by the time he's ready for the ring, he will still be as good!!   What then?   I guess you could keep your options open, for now.  Also I had to home a male I'd kept from an all-male litter.  By around 2 he'd started challenging his uncle, big time and try as I did, I couldn't get him to settle down.  So I found him a super home with a girl who was experienced in the breed, with 2 bitches.   However, as I really didn't know her that well, I decided to co-own him with her.   However, as time went on, and I got to know her better, I ended the coowner ship and signed him over to her.   It does mean somebody going into the unknown, has time to get to know the new owner and whether they can be trusted!!   Especially when it comes to stud rights.

I currently have one bitch of one breed in partnership, and an imported dog of the other breed. The bitch lives with me, the co-owner is the breeder and I did not pay anything for her. Litters will be shared between us (we are talking small litters here, of average 3 pups, not more), all set out in writing. I pay all ongoing costs, I show her, I chose the shows she goes to. The dog, as he was imported we shared the costs for that, he lives with the other owner, she pays all ongoing costs, she decides when and where to show him, but the handling has been sometimes her, sometimes my husband, depends on who he handles better for at the time. Any stud fees she gets to keep but obviously I can use him for nothing. The owner he lives with gets to keep rosettes, certificates etc. I noticed the kC say as a co-owner you can request a duplicate CC, stud book number and Champion certificate, but when this dog won the DCC at Crufts last year I wrote to them and did just that, but I never did get one.

I've had no problems, but it really does hinge on how well you know the other person etc!

I personally would never go I to partnership if I can help it as though it can work for some, iv seen many go south very fast. For me I wouldn't even go I to partnership with a friend as I wouldn't want to risk a friendship as I value that more than a dog.

> The dog, as he was imported we shared the costs for that, he lives with the other owner, she pays all ongoing costs, she decides when and where to show him, but the handling has been sometimes her, sometimes my husband, depends on who he handles better for at the time. Any stud fees she gets to keep but obviously I can use him for nothing. The owner he lives with gets to keep rosettes, certificates etc.

It doesnt sound like you get much for your outlay with that agreement. Unless you are planning several litters from him.

> It doesnt sound like you get much for your outlay with that agreement. Unless you are planning several litters from him.

I know of one person who co-owns a bitch, which doesn't live with her, because her husband won't allow her to have bitches (she has dogs) or to breed. It may just be her name on the paperwork and on any litters born to that bitch - I don't know if there are other considerations - but it has made her very happy.

I may not be in the position to have another dog for some time yet, so I would be very happy to co-own in a similar way, perhaps contributing financially.

It doesnt sound like you get much for your outlay with that agreement. Unless you are planning several litters from him.

It will be two litters for me -one was 3 years ago, the second will be next year. And well, considering that my name will always be listed as one of the owners, and that he beat the breed record holder to take the DCC at Crufts last year and has sired pups to a bitch abroad (i.e. was considered good enough for the breeder to travel over herewith a btich), has sired the record holder of the largest numbers of RCCs won in the breed (dubious honour I know LOL!) and with his pups from the first litter I had from him helped me greatly to become number two top breeder of the breed in the UK, think it has been WELL worth it. :) I currently have his first grandchildren in the nest here.