My foster puppy has been hand reared from a few days old...he's been wormed regularly and had his first injection on time...

He had a bad case of sore ears and the vet thought it was a dry dermatitis type thing and although she did not see ear mites suggested giving him a dose of advocate. He is 2.5 kg ( or just a bit over) so he got the under 4kg dose.

A few hours later noticed a terrible smell..I thought I had missed one of his wee's so gave his pen and rubber matting a good wash...but the smell was still there...
I lifted the pup for a cuddle and put him back and thought maybe it was me who was smelly after work with dogs all day.

It is the puppy...his breath smells like chemicals and his wee smells like chemicals....he has an acrid pong...I've never had a dog smell so bad after an advocate.
Rang the vets and got an on call vet and they didn't think it was anything to worry about..said he had never encountered such a thing after using it...apart from the smell and being a little quieter than normal he seems fine...feeding fine...but a little moany ..

Should I be concerned for future treatments...I've worked with dogs for years and given tons of advocate/frontline spot ons and never had such a nasty smell come off a dog before...

Cheers
J

I have not used the stuff myself, but a friend used  it on their superbly fit and healthy dog and he lost all his coat along his back and sides!     Not sure if he smelled of chemicals after application though, but stands to reason, if you apply something that works systemically, then it will affect all the dog's system, not just the skin ;-)

What breed is he?

Hope he's better soon.

He is a
Little collie crossed with a jack possibly...not entirely sure as I was told he was full collie from the vets who gave him to me...about 8 weeks old now.

Found this relating to Advocate online

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Bayer_plc/Advocate_Spot-on_Solution/-38249.html

How long between his last wormer and giving the Advocate?   

With Collies and their crosses you have to be very careful on dosage.  There's info in the information page on Advocate and Collies and their crosses ;)

Does he still smell?

He had been wormed with drontal puppy suspension just over a week before getting the advocate on. He still smells but it isn't quite as strong as it had been.

I read the page you linked to and I saw it says something about not using another product containing similar ingredients ...I'm sure I've read the drontal bottle before but don't remember the ingredients..

I'll have to read the panacur and granofen packets as well as we use those in work usually at the same time as applying the advocates....a lot of the dogs we get in are collie or collie crosses of some sort.

Would be good if anyone else knows about the safety of using the advocates plus wormers at the same time..if it could be dangerous I think our manager should know..but I'll need some sort of proof..

Cheers

Since Advocate is a wormer, as well as everything else, I'm astonished that other wormers are also being administered in conjunction.    I would have thought this was dangerous at worst, and an expensive waste of money at best.   

I'm also amazed that the staff administering these treatments aren't already familiar with the safety data on all the different medications.     These are strong drugs, no matter what the claimed safety dosages.

The very fact that the safety advice for humans is to practise extreme caution in handling them causes me enough concern.   If it can be harmful just to handle them, how much more harmful to be treated with them?

I read the page you linked to and I saw it says something about not using another product containing similar ingredients ...I'm sure I've read the drontal bottle before but don't remember the ingredients..

I'll have to read the panacur and granofen packets as well as we use those in work usually at the same time as applying the advocates....a lot of the dogs we get in are collie or collie crosses of some sort.

If you look at the top of the page, there is a facility to search, there are also tabs for different categories.    The information is there for Drontal, and I'm sure will be there for other drugs and wormers.

As I understand it some collies that carry the MDR1 gene can have serious reactions to some drugs - one I know of is Invermectin. The following link is to an article on a Rough Collie page but it explains the problem well

http://wisewyn.com.sapo.pt/roughcollies/health.htm

From the NOAH safety data on Advocate

< During treatment with Advocate no other antiparasitic macrocyclic lactone should be administered. This product contains moxidectin (a macrocyclic lactone), therefore special care should be taken with Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds or crossbreeds, to correctly administer the product as described above. In particular, oral uptake by the recipient and/or other animals in close contact should be prevented. >

Ivermectin is a macrolytic Lactone

From wikipedia    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

< Ivermectin and other avermectins (insecticides most frequently used in home-use ant baits) are macrocyclic lactones derived from the bacterium Streptomyces avermitilis. Ivermectin kills by interfering with nervous system and muscle function, in particular by enhancing inhibitory neurotransmission. >

What kind of drugs are the drontal and granofen? I looked up macrocyclic lac tones..and the other drugs in the page I looked at are not in the ingredients list of the drontal and granofen ( I haven't looked up panacur yet). We were told to use wormer AND advocate because the advocate doesn't cover giardiasis...and the wormer doesn't cover something the advocate does...
I have been noticing a lot lately at work many of the new dogs seem to take a turn after they are given the wormer and advocates together...
I would really like to question it further but am not very good at arguing a point I've not experience with....we've just been doing what the veterinary department has told us to do.

We only doule up this way on new intakes...long term dogs are just given advocates unless there is an outbreak of giardiasis ..

Cheers

It says on the NOAH page for granofen

< Further information Fenbendazole belongs to the benzimidazole (1-BZ) class of anthelmintics. >

A quick search on NOAH compendium brought up the granofen page,  use the links in the left hand panel for more info on the drug.

[url=] http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Virbac_Limited/Granofen_Wormer_for_Dogs_and_Cats/-35050.html[ /url]

You can do the same for drontal and any other drugs.

Advocate covers external parasites,  neither fenbendazole, nor drontal does this.