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Topic Dog Boards / General / Listing Litters On Champdogs & Elbow Scores
- By spudulike Date 24.10.13 13:18 UTC
Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to why you cannot register a litter if the bitch has a elbow score of 2, but litters where bitches which have not been scored are listed?

Surely this is encouraging people to not elbow score if they use CD's as their main advertising platform or to not be honest/open about the results if using the site?
- By Tommee Date 24.10.13 15:33 UTC
I though the BVA advice was not to breed from a dog/bitch with an elbow score above 1 ? I personally think only 0 elbow scores should be bred from
- By Jan bending Date 24.10.13 16:05 UTC
I have had issues with Champdogs over this . While they will not permit litters to be advertised if the elbow score is above 2, they permit breeders to advertise litters without elbow scoring of the sire and/or dam and indeed, with hip scores above the recommended mean.
I guess the new guidelines regarding elbow scoring  -now 0/0 recommended- will move the goal posts even further. I have noted litters advertised where no eye testing has been done, no DNA testing likewise and no screening of the puppies for deafness and eye conditions.
Surely a reputable site should be insisting on all recommended testing before  breeders can advertise.
Of course, different breeds have different health test requirements. But there should be a level playing field here. If elbow dysplasia is a problem in a breed ,then it should be tested for. Tough if the score means you should not breed but breeders should not get away with avoiding testing just because they fear the result may not suit them.
- By Tarimoor [gb] Date 24.10.13 16:51 UTC
Really?  I know of a litter where the bitch had a grade of 3 and it was listed on champdogs, confusing! 
- By Tarimoor [gb] Date 24.10.13 16:59 UTC
Just checked and both the bitch and dog are listed on champdogs, elbow grade is definitely a 3. 
- By Jodi Date 24.10.13 17:04 UTC
As a puppy buyer I would never even consider buying a pup from a dog with such a high elbow score , but then my breed of choice is numerically high with plenty of choice. When looking, I was passed to a lady who was about to mate her bitch which had an elbow score of one. Apparently she had the dog x-rayed not long after the dog had a knock on that elbow, it would have been better to have left it a bit longer. So not hereditary, but it put me off.
- By Jan bending Date 25.10.13 06:27 UTC
Reply to Tarimoor:

   This is even more perplexing and certainly this litter should not have been permitted to be advertised on the site.

I recently challenged Champdogs regarding breeders on CD who were not health screening and was told that the general public would differentiate between good and bad breeders so it was their choice -or words to that effect.
I expected more of CD.

However, I am aware that CD 'employ' monitors/spies to check out breeders and know that they will alert CD to breeders who they feel are in breach of the rules. Trouble is,  this in itself is open to abuse and petty rivalries and subjective opinions have resulted in litters being removed and/or breeders banned from CD.
IMO honesty should prevail and full health screening -required and recommended -should be the condition of acceptance on this site.
- By furriefriends Date 25.10.13 08:40 UTC
Thats disappointing I was ( wrongly) under the impression that cd breeders had to do appropriate health tests to be listed. Without that it is still leaving gp to work through all the pitfulls of finding a good breeder and subsequently the right pup.
I know people should but as we know its a hard job and people often fall at the first hurdle or little fluffy bundle

u
- By Tarimoor [gb] Date 25.10.13 08:51 UTC
There are still two progeny from this bitch showing against her, the litter was some time ago.  The owner of the dog used insisted that the elbow grade to the bitch was due to an injury, and the owners have campaigned her successfully.  But for me, whether the elbow grade is down to an injury or not, the point is that 3 is the worst grade of dysplasia and it is completely unfair to subject a bitch to the rigours of whelping with a grade that high.  I can fully understand the disappointment, I've got a bitch with a 2:1 grade and was still encouraged to possibly take a litter from her, but I chose to have her spayed.  My bitch was struck by a car at slow speed on the side with the 2 grade as a pup, and has never shown any signs of a problem with her elbows, her knees are however pretty knackered, so I'm glad I made that particular choice and didn't listen to the people who told me I should go ahead still. 

I don't like the elbow grading system as it's such a small range in comparison to the hip scores, and I personally wouldn't discount buying in a pup from a pedigree where one parent has a 1 grade, although I'd be unlikely to breed from a 1 grade unless I had something I considered and had proven to be pretty exceptional.  And I think it also depends on breed, there are plenty of choices within Labradors, much less within my other breed, flatcoats.  The bitch with the 3 grade was a Labrador, and there are plenty of other similar lines out there.  Maybe this breeder will be proven right, and it was down to an accident, but if it isn't, then it's the pups that are going to suffer.  That's not a gamble I'd like to take. 
- By universalady Date 25.10.13 11:26 UTC
I am aware of two people in our breed which have had their litters denied, because the elbow score was, in one case a 2. This particular bitch is a beautiful example of our breed,has won a couple of RCC's even though showed quite sparingly, and also passed the other health tests on offer for the breed. CD's was quite happy to take her money for advanced membership, but not let her register the litter, even though there are breeders that do NOT elbow score and are able to use CD's to sell their puppies...
- By Jan bending Date 25.10.13 16:17 UTC
My point precisely. There are breeders advertising on a regular basis even though they have not  done the required testing let alone the recommended screening for their breed. I used to recommend CD as the place to go to look for a well bred puppy. I honestly thought that the site insisted on full health screening before an ad could be placed. Sadly this is not so. The general public will not differentiate between breeders. They will look for a puppy locally and if the breeder has not elbow scored they will be none the wiser. Why can't CD raise the bar a bit higher and insist on elbow scoring where it is recommended by the breed club or KC ? The current situation is unfair to conscientious breeders.
- By Tarimoor [gb] Date 25.10.13 19:58 UTC
Just to say the litter wasn't apparently advertised, that was my mistake, but the information is all listed on CD as previously posted. My apologies for any confusion, and as far as the individual dogs go I haven't seen either in the flesh, I haven't, and wouldn't comment on them in any case, as I think it would be unfair to make any personal comments about dogs or owners. 

Apologies for the brief posting but I'm celebrating my birthday tonight and have just popped on quickly to catch up with any messages. 
Topic Dog Boards / General / Listing Litters On Champdogs & Elbow Scores

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