My dog sitter has tonight been bitten badly by a dog. Not a dog she sits for but one that lives in a house whose garden backs onto hers.
She and her hubby were walking to the car and the man who owns the dog (An Akita) were walking towards them. My friend, who is a little carefull with this dog as it has growled at her before, said hello to the owner as you do when meeting someone you know and the dog pulled him over to her ( he was some 15 ft away from her) and he leapt up at her face. She put her arm up in defence and he grabbed her elbow. It took over 20 seconds to get him off her. She went to the hospital and she needs platic surgery and the dog has fractured her elbow. She is worried because her hubby called the police but I have tried to tell her this dog made an unprovoked attack on her and has caused a lot of damage. It needs to be reported and if the dog is PTS it is not her fault. She is feeling bad enough without worrying about the dog but she is a dog lover and I suppose like we all do we cannot bear to think we may have somehow been part of the loss of someones pet, no matter how  much it is not our fault. She is in hospital overnight and needs surgery tomorrow. Poor girl.
Aileen

If she feels like it's her fault etc, perhaps she might like to consider what the result would have been had she been a young child?

It might help her put it into perspective.

The dog is dangerous, it made an unprovoked attack with full force, and the owner had no control.    A good strong leave it command would have helped here, had the dog been properly trained.

The only person who should be feeling guilty is the owner, for not having the dog under control and for owning a dog too large to handle effectively.

Hope she comes through the op OK and heals well.  Poor woman must be in such pain and distress.

Sorry to hear that Aileen, what a shock for her. It certainly does come under the heading of unprovoked, and I wouldn't be surprised if the owner hasn't had some incidences like this beforehand, or at least some indication that the dog is unpredictable.

Is this your new dog sitter or the lady who you have used before?

Your poor friend hope all goes well and she makes a fast recovery.
At the end of the day no matter what the problem is that caused the dogs behaviour one thing that is clear is the owner can not control or even hold back the dog. This needs looking into as how long will it be untill another person ends up where she is now. I'm sure she would feel much worse if she/husband didn't report it and it did it again to another person, especially if the person didn't react as fast as she did they could end up with no face or worse, then she would be wishing she had reported.
So all thought yes there is the risk the guys pet will be putdown but by reporting it there is the chance another attack can be prevented.

How horrible. :-( Very frightening for your poor sitter. I know as dog lovers we'd all hate to 'tell tales' about a dog but this sounds like a very serious incident, and the sort that really does need to be reported and the owner forced into taking more control of the dog. No innocent person deserves to be in your friend's situation. I hope she gets sorted and feels better soon. What a terrible shock.

Poor girl, I agree with the others, not the dog's fault for not being properly trained but the owner needs to learn how to handle his dog, if they have to pts then she has to think of it as protecting others from the owner's bad handling. :-( Hope she makes a full recovery.

There is talk of pts but you have to also look at what the victim wants and also what is best for the dog and owner. I don't know what collar and lead this dog was on but that may need to change but if your friend doesn't want the dog destroyed and she thinks that te owner will stick to it then she can put a recommendation in of muzzling in a public place at all times, on a lead and collar at all times in a public place too. It may not be agreed but if she doesn't want the dog destroyed that's an option she can ask the Police.

That's not to say that the owner won't be prosecute but I'm thinking if she's worried about the dog then she can put her thoughts forward and see what happens

Maybe the owner will take action without needing to be prompted? It could be that now he's seen what his dog can do he takes the decision to PTS himself. A dog that is capable of making such an unprovoked attack should not be re-homed if the owners don't think they're capable of handling him, that's just passing the buck to someone else, especially if they're not honest about the dogs background.

It's an awful thing, and she must feel dreadful, but as others have said it's not her responsibility. I wish her a speedy recovery.

I know I'm probably going to sound very hard, but I just feel any dog which makes a completely unprovoked attacked on any human really is not safe to be walking around, "Hello" hardly constitutes an attack! Akita's can be hard work at the best of times if not properly trained, this probably is territorial but alas it means that your dog sitter and anyone living next door is never going to be safe here, the dog means business. A muzzle is not good enough for a dog like this, can you imagine if any of our dogs went out and just randomly attacked people, could any of us really live with that? Sorry, but that dog should be gone, how can anyone even think of living with a dog like that, far too dangerous.

Well the update today is that she goes for surgery this afternoon and will be in hospital for the week end at least. The bite to her arm is bad (Piece missing so some grafting possible and it tore her sweatshirt to bits so debris in the wounds) and the force of it broke her elbow. How much damage could a dog like that do to a child, or even if she had not got her arm up in front of her face to her ?? I too think it should be PTS no question. How can the owners ever feel safe again walking the streets with it? I have come across it a few times while walking my girls and avoided it as it barks and looks aggressive, but I did not think it was a danger to people. How wrong can you be !!
Aileen
PS She is feeling more rational today and now accepts that this dog attack is serious and it needs to be sorted out. She has now accepted it is not her fault if it is PTS

I agree that yes, we would all feel somewhat guilty but as others have said, imagine that dog had jumped up at your child, or got hold of your small dog. The consequences dont bear thinking about.
A fractured elbow needing plastic surgery sounds awful, but thank goodness she was quick enough to put her arm up in denfence as a lot of damage could have been done to her face.

Your poor sitter, please tell her that many on CD also send our wishes to her and hope she recovers well, such a terrible thing to happen to her.

This is the thing Merlot, we can all forgive an adolescent who may grab an arm during play or whilst at that critical learning stage and not quite understanding the boundaries quite yet whilst being trained. We can also understand a dog being teased or shown threatening behaviour, going on the attack.

But this.......... No!

She will not be safe from this dog, the images of what could go wrong if the dog ever got into her garden one day. I know people keep saying what if it was a child, well yes a child could be killed or seriously injured, but so can an adult as we've seen, they are no less unimportant, we don't just take it on the chin because we are an adult, no-one should have to endure the pain and suffering and fear this dog is not fit to live with other humans, I know all our dogs can be territorial some more so than others, but this one knows no boundaries, it is totally unsafe.

Thanks for the update.  What a dreadful experience for your friend.  As everyone has said, thank goodness she managed to protect her face as the damage could easily have been even worse.  Nevertheless, the ongoing consequences for her will be considerable, physically, emotionally and presumably in relation to loss of income while she recovers ...

Sadly. I agree totally that PTS is the only responsible and realistic solution for this dog, as his owner cannot control him.  If I lived next door, or nearby, I would be very, very scared for myself, my family and my dogs - not to mention any children in the area who might come across him.

All good wishes to your friend for the best possible recovery.   X

Like Dill, I would say that she would feel a thousand times worse if she did NOT insist on the dog being put down, and next time it was a child it seriously injured or even killed. It's an awful scenario all told but here we have a large powerful breed which often is bred by the wrong kind of people, so who knows what the background on this dog is -it could have been born with a dodgy temperament. (I most definitely do NOT describe to the theory that no dogs are bad and it is always the owner's fault! Having had a litter myself where some turned out very poor, I KNOW they can be born with bad temperament.)

Absolutely Goldmali, a bad temperament is as genetic as any other fault, and there are plenty of dogs born this way, but, even without a dodgy temperament, too many people have powerful dogs untrained, and are unable to cope with them, they look at other people's well behaved adults and think it happens naturally. :-(

Thanks for the update.   Hope the surgery goes well.    As has been said, this will impact on your friend for some considerable time, both physically and mentally.     I hope she heals quickly and well.

Putting myself in the owner's shoes, I'm afraid that if any dog of mine did what this dog has done, it would be PTS before the victim reached the hospital.  No question.     Whether it's from lack of training, or poor temperament, I wouldn't be able to keep such a dangerous animal and would be devastated that anyone had come to harm because of MY dog.

if my dog did that it would be pts straight away. would not need law to enforce.

i am sure it is not the dogs fault it was out of control but that is not relevant. it was a very strong attack- far too dangerous to keep a dog with that type of behaviour. plenty of dogs with beautiful temperaments being pts as no homes so no reason to keep one like that.
Ideally the owner should also have restrictions placed upon them keeping dogs in future too .

>Putting myself in the owner's shoes, I'm afraid that if any dog of mine did what this dog has done, it would be PTS before the victim reached the hospital.  No question.     Whether it's from lack of training, or poor temperament, I wouldn't be able to keep such a dangerous animal and would be devastated that anyone had come to harm because of MY dog.

Exactly. I would be horrified if one of mine attacked someone. Mine are big dogs over 40kilos and are well trained, an untrained dog of that sort of size hell bent on attacking someone would be nigh on impossible to stop.
I too hope this lady recovers well from what was obviously a very nasty attack.

On a personal note it does sound like the dog should be destroyed I was merely covering if the OP didn't want this to happen and some don't then tier feelings can and do come into it when being investigated if the owner doesn't make the decision alone!

>Ideally the owner should also have restrictions placed upon them keeping dogs in future too .

This is what went through my mind.

Hope she makes a good recovery. If that was my dog it would have been pts

Just reading this now. I too think the dog needs PTS. Otherwise your friend will end up living in fear of it (as it is a neighbours dog it would always be close at hand as opposed to a random dog you come across in the park and may never encounter again). She would always worry about any visiting children especially, and having such a dangerous dog nearby could impact on her business if the dogs she sits come to her (she would always be worrying that her clients dogs could be attacked).
Hope she makes a quick recovery.

Hi Aileen,
Just to add my best wishes and support to your friend ~ and to echo that there is absolutely no guilt for her to carry here (imagine how worse the guilt if the dog managed to do this again)
   Perhaps print off this thread and show her how many fellow dog lovers are disgusted an owner could put a dog in such a position where the outcome may be to euthanise. Any guilt is fairly and squarely this animal's guardian's to carry! We all absolutely sympathise with her, with a 'there but for the grace of god go I' feeling. A situation no one would want or should have had to have been put in. Warmest wishes to her for a speedy recovery xx

>The dog is dangerous, it made an unprovoked attack with full force, and the owner had no control.    A good strong leave it command would have helped here, had the dog been properly trained.

I have to say if the dog had been properly trained it would never get to *that* stage! That's far too far down the error chain for my liking!!!

I hope the hospital took pics before and after surgery to help with any compensation she may claim later.

I send healing vibes her way for a good recovery physically and mentally

Wouldn't the hospital also have made a report?  That's what would happen here.  If so, a little bit of relief for her that it would be reported anyway, whether her husband called the police or not.

I agree, it should be reported.  The dog is dangerous and she is lucky the bite was not worse.  I can imagine a dog the size of an Akita knocking even a big man to the ground and wonder she wasn't knocked over and bitten more than she was.

Wow, if I were your friend, I don't think I'd be able to live near that dog again as it was sooooo determined to get to her and then to hurt her badly. I'd never be able to relax - what it he managed to break into the back garden (I think you said he lives behind her house?) or could break away from the handler properly next time and her husband wasn't there to help her? Sorry, pts in my opinion is the wisest option.

Please pass on my best wishes to your friend. She must have been very shocked after the incident and is probably only now able to rationalise what has happened.
I agree with all the comments on here as the dog is not to be trusted and the owner was unable to control it.
My view is that certain breeds should only ever be owned by people who are experienced and able to handle them.
I would like to see it being a condition of ownership that big powerful dogs receive adequate training and some sort of assessment before being granted a special license for breeds such as Akitas.
There are all manner of dogs bred for fighting, some being sold on internet sites with specific code names, and anybody can buy such a dog.
To me it is like being in charge of a potentially lethal weapon, there have been a number of very high profile cases in the media, where attacks on humans have occurred and I feel it reflects badly on all dogs.
Without proper controls I really do fear that in time to come we will end up with all dogs having to be kept on leads and muzzled in public, which IMO would be a very bad thing indeed, when the vast majority of dogs are well socialised and friendly.

sadly I agree the  dog is too risky. Even if muzzled if public it still leaves the potential for something to go wrong at home  eg if there were vistors in particular children . very sad

I hope your sitter makes a good recovery both physically and mentally

The hospital have to file reports with dog bites, my mum was bitten years ago and they did back then.

Hospitals still have to keep reports on dog bites. My eldest was laying and playing on the floor with our tiny Jack Russell pup who's claws I had just clipped. Pickle jumped on my son's head and as he slid off his claw caught my sons ear and put a small slice in it like a paper cut but deeper. This was documented as a dog bite?! And a full report was made despite me showing pics of this 1.5kg pup and my son being 6ft 3.

Is there any update on what has happened to the dog? It must have a really powerful bite to break and elbow through crushing. :( I have to agree though, if that had been my dog l would have been in the car to the vets at the same time the ambulance arrived.

I hope you friend is able to get over the physical and mental scars caused by this, especially as it will impact on her job :(

Hospitals do not keep reports of dog bites. I work in A&E and apart from it being booked in as a dog bite no other records are kept.
Aileen

Perhaps you live in a nicer area than me :) They wanted full details and definitely said that they had to keep all records regarding dog bites. I found this on the NHS website : "It is hard to estimate how common bites are as records are usually only kept of bites that were serious enough to require hospital treatment; which in Wales and England is around 6,000 cases of dog bites and 2,500 cases due to other bites, including human."

Anyhow, any news on the poor person injured?

Both bites and 'strikes' are recorded under the same heading at hospitals etc. So if I was pawed at by my dog and he cut my arm or leg and I went to hospital it would go down as a dog bite/strike. They're both under the same heading.

I do hope the owner makes a sensible decision to have this dog PTS or muzzled. It is such a shame but I am hesitant to blame the owner, for all we know this dog could have been the victim of an attack or could be a rescue dog with previous  reasons to be fearful/aggressive. Obviously they cannot handle the dog's size and weight but they may not necessarily have caused the original problem.

Your friend has a double tragedy as I know myself if a dog had attacked me in this way it would play on my mind and that is the last thing you want when you're recovering from such a bad attack.

In my area, if a child attends A&E the Health Visitors or School Nurses are informed. A follow up phone call is often carried out.

>In my area, if a child attends A&E the Health Visitors or School Nurses are informed. A follow up phone call is often carried out

That didnt happen in Rochdale 4 years ago, when a child under social sevices radar had her finger bitten off by the mothers new boyfriends dog while leaving her on her own with it,
No social services record, and no phone call to the father.
Lea :(

This dog is still walking the streets. The police have done nothing so far to make sure others are safe. The owners have refused a court directive to muzzle the dog and the police have not enforced it as of today 10 days after the attack !!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151882335943711&set=a.497868003710.277763.767243710&type=1&theater

Unbelievable! :( Maybe the newspaper should be informed of this? Put some pressure on owners and police. Otherwise their next headline might be "child savaged" or even killed.

That facebook link is to a front page piece on this.  Ridiculous that the police aren't enforcing it :-(

I know Nikita, I meant maybe the paper would be interested in a follow up telling of how the dog has been ordered to be muzzled but is still going out unmuzzled.

I think, if this were a member of my family, I would be asking to speak to a senior member of the Police force regarding this unprovoked attack and serious injury.

I have found that when dealing with Police reluctant to do anything, using correct terminology and asking for an INCIDENT number dramatically changes their perspective and produces results  ;)

Can't believe that the police haven't done anything about a dog that is so clearly a danger to the public.   There have been so many news reports of childen being killed by dogs much smaller than this.

ETA   Just a thought, but is this an area where the new PCCs might have some clout?

That's awful that nothing has been done, it seems it's pot luck as to wether dog attacks are taken seriosly or not.
If I were your friend, I'd be phoning up the police every day and making a damned nuisance of myself .

Merlot - this is dreadful.  I hope your poor friend will find the strength to pursue this with the police as formally as possible ( - and perhaps with her MP?).

Apart from feeling very sorry for her and others who may come into contact with this dog, this also makes me angry on behalf of all responsible dog owners.  No wonder dogs and their owners get a bad name if very serious incidents like these are treated so casually by the police, and in this case, apparently, by the owner of the dog who is apparently refusing to even muzzle the animal.

I find it impossible to understand how the owner can behave as he is.  If a dog of mine had attacked in this way it would have been straight to the vet to be PTS, however 'good' it had been previously.  I would be distraught for countless reasons - but mostly because of the damage it had caused to another person - and also because of the thought of how the outcome might have been even worse.

Existing legislation can and should be dealing with this and the owner is accountable.

All good wishes to your friend who should NOT have to be considering moving house in order to feel safe!

Not that she should be in the position of having to, but does your dog sitter/friend have any insurance to get legal help and advice? What about pursuing the owner for damages, maybe one of these no win no fee outfits.

How did it get as far as being in court (or refusing a court directive)? Wouldn't this be in breach of something?

Presumably the Animal Warden is aware. I would definitely be pushing the Police on this, maybe with the MP's help. It's going to look very bad on them if something else happens.

I think this incident and the resulting lack of action by the police and the courts are an example of how little will change even with a change in legislation.

It doesn't really matter what the law is regarding dangerous dogs and dangerous owners, if the police and magistrates won't implement them, then they may as well not exist in the first place

Perhaps the only change in law needed is one forcing the police and magistrates/cps to act when a dog has been found to be dangerously out of control?

I'm disgusted by this... as Dill says, what's the point of law if it's not enforced?

I was called into the local police station several years ago when two teenagers on bikes whizzed past me and my dog on a very narrow pavement, at top speed, and he lunged and caught the hem of one rider's jeans. No injury at all, and TBH they were cycling without due consideration to other users of the pavement. Yet I was cautioned under the Dangerous Dogs Act section 3, "dog out of control in a public place."

Absolute waste of taxpayers money, yet in this case when a dog has done definite and grievous injury, they are doing nothing?

I'm totally shocked Aileen... I really am, if there is any sort of campaign to get this case sorted out then sign me up. This was a serious injury, and if any dog I owned put someone in hospital, I'd not only consider PTS but also have a long think about whether I was fit to own a dog.

Well the latest is that finally the police have obtained a warrant to have this dog seized. Time will tell if they actually implement it! They haven't yet!
The owner has no dog insurance, no house insurance and lives in rented accommodation so Claire stands no chance of any recompense. She has spoken to 3 different solicitors all of whom will not touch it as they know that they will not get any money !!
The case will eventually go to court now and the owners will be charged with having a dangerous dog out of control in public. I (and Claire) suspect that the only casualty in all this will be the dog "Bear" who will no doubt be PTS eventually but will now spend the next 5-6 months in goal. Not the dogs fault and Claire is still upset about it but realizes that the owners will not take full responsibility and so the courts must. Had the owners agreed to muzzling the dog and made sure they fenced the garden properly Claire would have been, if not happy, at least agreeable to giving it a try to save Bears life. The courts could impose a prison sentence on the owner but are unlikely to and if they fine him it will come dribble by dribble from his benefits (He is a retired service men who is reg disabled ). The owners have been very silly about it all and still do not except that Bear is a danger stating that he "Would not have bitten if Claire had not put her arm up to save her face" and that he is "An ambassador for the breed who is the gentlest dog you could meet " it is just unbelievable. As of yet they have made no admission of this being any more that a playful bite !!!
I will keep you informed of what happens next.
Aileen

> Would not have bitten if Claire had not put her arm up to save her face"

He must have been coming at her for her to raise her arm surely? and if he had got her face instead of her arm it doesn't bear thinking about!  having seen pics on her face book page from the link you posted it looks a very bad wound. I is very sad but I can't see any other option than to put him to sleep.

As of yet they have made no admission of this being any more that a playful bite !!!

I'd hate to know what a serious bite is like if a playful bite goes to the bone!

with the owners having such a foolish attitude there is no way they should be allowed to keep dogs. far too dangerous for everyone.
strangely I have never heard of a dog ban being imposed on owners of dangerous dogs- just fines and dog destruction orders. nothing to stop them buying-and ruining-another dog.