Hi
I'm going to view a cocker spaniel pup tomorrow and the owner has told the pups are fed on weetabix & rice and then move on to tins. Now having been searching for a puppy and have been to several breeders, usually what I hear is 'Royal Canin' like its the Gold Standard for premium dog food.
I want to know if I should be concerned about the Weetabix/Rice thing or is that perfectly fine?
I have no idea what is right or wrong?

Weetabix and rice would not be my first choice when whelping a litter, and tinned food would not be my first choice as a follow on,but as you are finding each one of us is different.

What is most important is the connection you do or do not make with the breeder when you meet them tomorrow. Hopefully they will become a friend that you can trust for quality information, and will always be there for both you and the dog. You are looking at a breed that is very popular with pet owners and because of their popularity there are many backyard breeders willing to supply puppies to meet the demand; so please do your homework.

Have a list of questions you would like to ask (this should be a big list) and also have a list of questions you expect them to ask of you (if they genuinely care about their litter you should expect lots of questions from them).

If you feel uncertain or uneasy about any aspect of the conversation then think very carefully. Also, do not be swayed..... Trust me when I say that cocker puppies are so adorable that it is easy to fall in love in an instant....... 

I feed raw myself but would far rather puppies were weaned on commercial puppy food than weetabix and rice. Dogs need good quality meat based protein and fat not carbohydrates. It would depend a bit what the tins were and when they are moved onto them but I would certainly have to consider carefully whether to have a pup from them. The connection with the breeder and all the other factors are very important but I couldn't disregard poor nutrition at the start of life personally.
If you are planning to get a puppy in the near future it is worth doing some research on canine nutrition and the different foods out there so you are prepared.

To be honest the good they are feeding is an important part but can you tell everybody the key things you are choosing your future puppy on ?

Thank you for all of your responses. They are so helpful. I have been doing ALOT of research about the cocker spaniel as I have a young family 2&1/2 yr old & 6 yr old children. I am a stay at home mum and really want a pet to join our family. I would not be showing or breeding this dog. It will be a pet.
I am aware that the 'Dam' is owned by an elderly couple as a pet and she has been mated with a champion show cocker who has qualified for crusts 2 yrs in a row. I asked if the puppy comes with a puppy pack, 4wks insurance, etc. Not sure if that is mainly an incentive to buy a pup or whether it is a requirement from a good breeder? I don't think they are aware of the puppy pack and I doubt they wd offer 4wks insurance. But it would be vet checked and wormed.
I'll know more when I see them today.

Any KC registered puppy comes with 4 weeks free insurance, which is activated by the breeder on the day the puppy is picked up by its new owners.
The puppy pack is basically an information sheet consisting of 1 or 2 pages (&  in quite a few cases a contract) of information, for you as the new owner, this will be what times the puppy is used to, what food its been fed and a whole lot more to guide you as a new puppy owner. Every puppy pack will be different as its compiled by the breeder & can also be breed related too, sometimes breeders will give quite a bit of extras with this info like toys, bedding, leads etc. Its really is a important to get some of the info as you need to know what the puppy has been fed on & at what times its used to. I always give some food which the puppy is used to aswell just to cover those first few days to a week.

Dungonnell, sorry but I don't like the pups being brought up on weetabix and rice, what a rotten diet for a pup, really makes me think that they have no idea what to rear a pup on.

The most important thing to look for in a quality pup is the health tests, without them I would run 100 miles from any pup.

The pup should be KC registered and come with 4 weeks free insurance from the kennel club and better still should be a KCABS breeder deeming that the parents should be DNA tested, checked for hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia and inherited eye conditions. The pups should be microchipped or tattooed.

These requirements are not for show dogs but for all pet dogs to make sure they are healthy please do not buy any pup unless it has had all tests done. Also you need to make sure that the parents have good temperaments especially as you have children.

I would recommend that you look up the Cocker Spaniel breed clubs and choose a breeder via them or by the Champdogs breeders list.

Good luck with your search and yes, be fussy, you don't want a pup that spends it's life having vet treatment for one thing or another as it has not come from a breeder who health tests, be careful.

Also, as already said The English Cocker has two strains the Working Cocker and the Show Cocker, read up about both strains and decide which is right for you, I would expect the Show Cocker.

Good luck. :-)

Agree with everything Carrington says......personally I would not even go to view a pup that was being reared on Weetabix and rice,those first few weeks are crucial and I'd want my pup reared by knowledgable,experienced breeders.

I agree with most that you have said but am surprised that you would expect micro chipping or tattoos? Is it normal to micro chip such young puppies? I had one of my dogs micro chipped when he was under anaesthetic (never thought of it with previous dogs, live on a remote farm and it wasn't expected so much in the past) but have wimped out of getting the other done unless she is under for something as she is NOT vet happy. Isn't it a big needle for an 8 week pup? and wouldn't it be more likely to move when they are growing so fast?
100% agree er health testing and general clue-ed up-ness of the breeder though. 

Again agree with Carrington - the dam should have been fed a good diet whilst in whelp too, all helps to make the pups nice and strong.  If they aren't feeding pups right, what else could be going on?

Walk away - find a reputable breeder.  It may well save you a lot of heartbreak in the future.

The pup I recently got was chipped at 8 weeks. The breeder commented that their vet wouldn't do them any younger. I believe that the chip, therefore the needle is smaller then it used to be.
However I have recently read that there can be a problem with chips migrating when done at an early age, but I believe that the positioning of the chip between the shoulder blades rather then in the scruff as before, helps to prevent migration.

I got all my pups tattoo'd before they left for their new homes, including the pups I've kept.    Done at about 7 weeks.     They squealed when they were restrained, as they prefer to be running amok at that age, but the tattoo didn't seem to bother them at all.    They were more interested in licking and fussing the person doing the tattoo :-)

I agree with most that you have said but am surprised that you would expect micro chipping or tattoos? Is it normal to micro chip such young puppies?

I would never, EVER sell a puppy that wasn't microchipped, so many reasons for it, and the sooner they are done the better, considering how these days breeders even have pups stolen from their homes. There's no problem chipping them young, the youngest I have done was Papillon pups aged just 4 weeks (so very small pups indeed -and the one I kept from that litter only weighs in at just over 2 kilos at 3 years of age), which was done as one was going abroad and details were needed for all the paperwork ASAP. Normally I do pups at 5 to 6 weeks. Yes the needle is big (I don't use the mini chips you can get these days) but it is so sharp the pups don't feel it. My pups and kittens always feel the vaccination a LOT more than the chipping. I've told the story here many a  time before :) but I once accidentally chipped my own thumb, and  didn't even notice until  I saw blood dripping -I never felt the needle go in at all.

A typo food rather than good !

It does sound like you need more information 
Read this as it may help you

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/finding-the-right-breeder/

Pet Detect have a new "mini mircochip"& puppies can be chipped from around 8 weeks onwards depending on the size of the puppy. Tattooing can be done from 6 weeks of age onwards

>puppies can be chipped from around 8 weeks onwards depending on the size of the puppy.

Puppies can be chipped from 3 days of age for tail docking.

Pups can most definitely be done well BEFORE 8 weeks with normal sized chips.

How was your visit yesterday?

Pups can most definitely be done well BEFORE 8 weeks with normal sized chips.

They can be however it is not what the implanters are advised to do nor what the microchip company's advise

Puppies are not microchipped at 3 days for tail docking, they are chipped when their certificates are issued(& the docking has it's final check up)this information is straight from the only vet in this area that tail docks & they do a lot of working cockers/springers etc

They can be however it is not what the implanters are advised to do nor what the microchip company's advise

I was never told an age when I trained. It would be utterly pointless anyway as an adult of my toybreed can be considerably smaller than a 5-6 week old of my large breed. The younger they are, the quicker they forget all about it.

I don't know who trained you, but to chip a three day old puppy was certainly not the remit from the only chip company that admits that chips do move & can fail I know that.

If done correctly(as with tattooing)it is over & done with with no lasting effects

>Puppies are not microchipped at 3 days for tail docking,

I've held the pups whilst the vet does it, and know for certain that they're only 3 days old.

They don't HAVE to be chipped so young, obviously your vet does, it doesn't mean ALL vets do. Although the implant needle is sterile, the dogs skin isn't & even if the area is cleaned, the implant causes a hole throgh which a very very vunerable neo natal can be infected & their immnue system compromised.

Could be your vet doesn't know/trust the breeder(s)involved as the 2006 act provides for
Puppies being docked must be microchipped, either at the time of docking or when the vet considers they are old enough.

The point is that it's perfectly possible to chip puppies far younger than the 8 weeks you stated, even with full-sized microchips. As you yourself quoted, the law allows for pups to be chipped at the time of docking, and that's before their eyes open.

>the implant causes a hole throgh which a very very vunerable neo natal can be infected & their immnue system compromised.

Not nearly as big as the hole at the end of the tail! ;-)

I prefer tattooing, and have it done at 7 weeks, but have had pups chipped at 7 weeks of age in addition.

Every pup I have ever bred (since the first in 1995) has been ear tattooed.  Primarily for my own peace of mind in being traceable should one of mine turn up in rescue (owners have been known to be too ashamed to contact a breeder and offload AND LIE TO A RESCUE) or straying and the owners can't be contacted.

I also prefer tattooing but in addition I will be chipping my current litter myself as I have just done the course as it seems all dogs/pups will have to be chipped by 2016.

I'm a wimp (and poor sight) so looking at eventually getting husband trained to chip in addition to having pups tattooed.

It is surprisingly easy Barbara...

I don't know who trained you, but to chip a three day old puppy was certainly not the remit from the only chip company that admits that chips do move & can fail I know that.

You're mixing me and JG up. I've not said anything about 3 days.

Hi went to see the pup and met the elderly couple. They have all of the relevant paperwork and have had the pup vet checked. The vet can provide a certificate of the checks. I know it's not a good start for the pup to be fed on weetabix/ creamed rice. I was planning on weaning the pup straight onto a good quality complete dry food for puppy's. I won't be buying Royal Canin as its just too expensive for me. It will be Iams or Eukanuba or similar as I don't see how it could be that bad. The elderly couples own dog is microchipped.
I would have walked away instantly if there was no sign of any effort from the couple to follow all of the relevant requirements albeit the foods not ideal but everything else appears above board.

But have the pups parents had all the relevant breed health checks? Not just a check up at the vets.

ETA: Here are the KC requirements/recommendations: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/health.aspx?id=2052

The stud dog is on Champdogs website and I spoke to the owner who was happy to allow her dog to mate with the elderly couples 'dam' twice as the first attempt was unsuccessful. I would like to think the stud dog owner would want to keep her reputation intact and so would not agree to just any old request to use her stud dog.

If you have the registered name of the dam you should be able to check for health test results on the KC web site - do not rely on other people having checked do it yourself as if there is a problem you are the one who will have to pay both in money in vet bills and in emotional pain.

Ditto what Nova has said, a quick check on the KC website of the Dam and Sire, will show up what tests have been carried out. Here is the link: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx

Thanks Nova and Pedlee,

I just used the health check on the kennel club web and low and behold NO info on the 'dam'!
Contacted the breeder with my new found info and wow were they cagey!!
So, we are not going to go with the pup.

Well done Dungonnell, if only other people took so much care when looking for a puppy there would be far less in the way of puppy farms and BYB, far less dogs in rescues and many more people paying the right price for a healthy pup and we on CD would have nothing to talk about.

No Thank YOU for explaining the screening health check on KC. My hubby contacted the breeder and he could not believe he was speaking to the same person we met. The owner also couldn't remember who we were and when my hubby asked about the screening test the wife went mental and put her hubby on and he just said 'why do u need to know that, sure you met the dog'!!! Then in the background my hubby could hear the wife screaming at the dog and slamming doors.
I'm now worried about the pups and mummy dog. God only knows what life those pups will have.

You have done the right thing...to walk away...you are not responsible for the puppies this person has. You want a healthy pup & one that will a good family pet.
People need to do this kind of thing/research before spending any kind of money, the last thing you want is a sickly animal spending most of it's life down the vets or ill...well done. It is far better to outlay a little more to start with, to get a pup that parents have had as much thought as possible in putting them together to produce puppies with health test done for that breed.

Well done Dungonnell.

I have been following this thread and really hoping that you would be able to take a deep breath and walk away from this litter, following all the excellent advice posted by others.  It must have been hard to do (puppies are all SO appealing!) - but you have done the right thing.  It is well worth taking a little longer to find a happy healthy puppy whose parents have had all the necessary health tests required for the breed.  You also want a conscientious breeder who takes a pride in doing everything correctly and will offer you ongoing support and advice for the life of the puppy. 

There are plenty of such breeders out there if you're prepared to look and to wait a little while, if necessary.  If all buyers insisted on finding breeders like this it could put the wretched back yard breeders and the puppy farms out of business which would be better for everyone - especially the poor dogs!

Good luck with your search for a fit, healthy, well-reared pup.  Let us know how you get on.

like..exactly waht I tried to say only much better :)

A very wise decision.  Please let admin know the details of stud dog who they used especially if they're KCAB's and tests are required.

I hope you find a suitable puppy very soon.  I wish more people would ask questions as you have done so you don't get caught out.

I have just come across this thread. Am totally against micro chipping very young puppies and recommend that it be done by a vet at the time of the second vaccination. I know I'm going to be shot down in flames for having this policy . I know that many of you have taken the course to microchip . I accept that the needles are smaller but I see no reason to insert an object/foreign body under the skin of a small and vulnerable young puppy. Okay, most of the time this will be okay but there is always the risk of idiosyncratic reaction to procedures and how many implanters would know how to deal with anaphalactic shock or haemorrage or take responsibility for infection subsequent to the procedure. And okay, I recognise that we need to be accountable for the puppies we breed  and permanent identification is a way of ensuring that breeders are traceable but there are records with the KC for this . There are other issues around this topic ,I know, but I'm looking at it from the health perspective and will challenge the KC if they attempt to enforce early microchipping.

And  all my guys have weetabix and warm goats milk for breakfast every day. I introduce it to puppies at 6 weeks and they love it for breakfast. Other meals are top quality commercial puppy food plus' bits and bobs' -cooked mice, fish,scrambled eggs, chicken etc.

The first places to ask or look when you wish to buy a quality puppy is the breed clubs, the KC, or on here but you still have to ask the questions as the responsibility is with the person who is doing the buying.

Lets also be sensible in pointing out puppies are flesh and blood and no matter how much care you take in choosing your puppy you can still be unlucky - but if the breeder has checked everything they can and given the pup the best possible start, you know the best has been done for this puppy and no one can do any more. So do insure at least for the first year as however careful breeders and owners are the worst does happen.

>There are other issues around this topic ,I know, but I'm looking at it from the health perspective and will challenge the KC if they attempt to enforce early microchipping.

By April 2016 all puppies, whether KC registered or not, will have to be microchipped before sale. It's enacted in law, and the KC is powerless to change it.

Well, I'll have to keep my puppies until 12 weeks. This is common practice in many European countries. Hard work for the breeder as I know well from having to look after puppies to accommodate holiday arrangements.

I would say it is VERY unfair on pups to be vaccinated and microchipped on the same day. A sure recipe to make them dislike vets for life. FAR better to chip a couple of weeks before first vaccination.

Why should the puppies be chipped at the vets ? Implanters are(IMHE)better at chipping that vets, all the migrating chips I have known about(& seen the proof that the chip has migrated)were done by vets

Also much nicer for the pup to be done at home.

>all the migrating chips I have known about(& seen the proof that the chip has migrated)were done by vets

Ah, my bitch was chipped by her breeder and the chip's now on her left shoulder/neck - you can feel it just beneath the skin and scanning confirms it.