Had visit from Sspca day at feild they had call on Thursday night saying their was group. People with dogs at river that runs throw feild I rent the people and dogs were chasing my Clydesdale. Gelding round feild
And Apollo was in distress
Sspca followed call up today they came to check Apollo and alert me I had good look in Apollo heels I found bit marks
we are having hell of time with people coming out from dalry coming in feild with dogs loose I have told few people to put dogs on lead all I got was abuse the gate they are coming is has signs up and paddlocked. I told lady I rent from she is so angry and upset she has contacted police comunty offers coming tomorrow to feild
My husband and I so upset its discusting that people would get dogs to chase my big horse he such lovely chap just worried about him now and my new 18yr pony

I would be very upset and worried too, your poor horse. Some people are just so cruel.

I'm glad that the police are coming and that the owner of the field is very upset too.

What do you do?  Hire security guards to protect the field and alert police of wrong doers along with CCTV? 

Hope that something can be done to secure your horses safety poor thing, hope he is ok.

Thank u
My husband is bouncer he is looking in security camaras for feild owner. I report it to police as well if Sspca get another call they will phone me asap
Apollo fine he is his usal cheeky self I got lovely 18yr grey Mae she's 14.2hds on Sunday just hope their no more attacks she is old girl. The last 3weeks been nightmare with people coming in feild sitting at river with loose dogs and bonfires.we have put up electric fence so horses can not cross river people are pulling my fencing posts and rope down
feild owner had enough of the idiots doing this

It's good that people are calling the SSPCA it's catching the little beeps that is the problem, then you could hall them up for property damage and animal cruelty.  Glad hubby is looking into CCTV seems the best option, at least the police will then be able to have a clue of who is doing it and then they will try to find them. But......... they may never return.

Perhaps a few more large signs saying private property and trespassers will be prosecuted will do the trick as well. Apart from that all I can think of is tall metal fencing or wiring, but what an expense for a few mindless people.

I'd be inclined to camp next to my horses for a while also to protect them, with cellphone on the ready for the police, but I know it may not be feasible to do that.

What a worry for you............. :-(

How awful for you, hope you can get it sorted out quickly. The right to roam in Scotland takes no consideration for land owners and their animals/property, seems to be all for the tourists etc. and no protection for locals or residents. The damage to your fencing can be dealt with as criminal damage and the deliberate cruelty to your horses is an offence, but we don't seem to be able to stop anybody using any land, maybe the SSPCA will have more influence on the situation than the "mere" land owner has? Please let us know how you get on.

You might want to read through the legislation and see if there's anything that you can use to protect your horses
[url=]. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/contents    [/url]
From a quick look, it would seem you could use section 9d, which says people aren't allowed access to land if their dog is out of control, which their's clearly was.
I also came across an older bit of law, which appears to still be in operation which covers fires where they may be a danger, I'd say having a camp fire in a horses field is damned dangerous.
Hope your horses are ok .

I will keep everyone posted
the lady that owns feild she is such lovely lady she has horses and dogs as well she has had enough so contacted comunty police officer he's coming tomorrow to feild the gate that people can acusess is down lane. The gate we use is up country road. The owner and her husband put more signs up tonight its also got chain and padlock the owners are going to block gate by fencing but Sspca said it wont stop people.we have fennced. River off at our side so Apollo can not cross but idiots keep. Pulling posts up and breaking tape I am getting stuff to electrocute the tape and also put Bering up
After Sspca contacted me I phoned police they were not intrested I have just joined on advice of owner horse watch am in touch with local British horse society area Rep both can help us its so bloody discusting people would do this they have no respect for countryside .livestock etc if we see anyone at river with dogs loose we have. Asked people to put them in lead all we get is abuse.we have atoped letting our dogs run in feild they are tied to gate with lunge lines.its shame as my two love playing with Apollo .apollo cones and stands at gate besides dogs and nuzzles them hector likes to jump up and chase flies of apollo

I haven't really got any advice just sympathy. Gosh you have really had some bad luck -first dogs stolen, then house broken into, then horses attacked -do you think somebody is after you specifically? What does the police say?

Under the right to roam dogs don't have to be on lead around livestock just under control either on short lead or kept close to owner, which I think is daft they should be kept on lead around livestock but that would be why people are leaving there dogs off the lead. They defernatly shouldn't be breaking your fences but they are allowed to use your field I'm afraid so you might want to check that they can't get you in trouble if you make it so they can't get access to part of it as under the law you not allowed to block or intermediate the public who wish to use your field if the access law applys to it.

I'd put up a solid fence around where your keeping the horse with a style and gate so that a lose dog couldn't get in with to the horse with out being lifted over, you will be with in the law as there is a style and it will keep someone s dog from running off to chase the horse and the gate allows you to let the horse out. You shouldn't have to make changes but that's realy all I could see you could do as you can't keep the people out.

Maby putting some form of path from the other gate down the river river for people to use, they won't have to stick to it but hopefully some will, and a sign that says something like that public are welcome to use the river but please for the safety of the horses and your dog's please keep them on a lead or away from the horses. It sounds nice so I'm sure most people would then do it.

Excellent post Jo, it's about politeness and fairness on both sides. If the OP is shouting at people telling them to keep their dogs on a lead when they legally don't have to, and aren't doing anything wrong then it will put peoples backs up.

I myself have complained about padlocked gates and had the padlocks removed.

I do feel for the OP, rotten luck to have such awful people using the field. Most people exercising their right to roam do so responsibly.

right to roam for people is one thing. right to let dogs roam is quite another. i do feel sorry for the horse owner- its unacceptable to allow strange dogs off lead arround someone elses livestock unless they are in a very firm at heel position.
maybe its time to get someone to plough a nice deep muddy edge round the edge of the field. people might not be so keen on letting their dogs in if they get covered in mud.

Yes people shouldn't let there dogs off around livestock but sadly the law doesn't require them to keep them on lead, so as long as a dog isn't chasing live stock it is allowed off lead under the law. Plowing a big muddy ditch around it could been seen as the landowner obstructing access and as such an offence and reportable. In the info about the act (posted the link in there post in the foo section) it mentions not doing things to deter, intermediate or odstruct acess.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the op is doing anything wrong and they shouldn't have there fencing broken and horse chased or attacked, only saying what the law allows and doesn't allow.

The law doesn't seem very fair for landowners but it is the law in Scotland. The advice in the act for landowners suggests polite signs and paths to work with the public, but doesn't seem to be any protection for landowners against people not using it responsibly.

I would defernatly swap the fencing around the horse for a hard fence with style and gate, I'd also put a sign on the locked gate saying it's locked to contain livestock and for the public's to please use the other gate. Also a list of public responsibilities by the gate may be a good idea, like not damaging fencing, dogs under control, cleaning up dog mess, not worrieing livestock ect.

Would a small flock of GEESE be classed as intimidating the public?        (Looking innocent here ;-) ) 

As I recall, one of the biggest deterrants to us as kids, roaming on common land, was the small flock of geese the local farmer kept outside his fields on common land with his ponies.       Only about a dozen of them, but we quickly learned to avoid them and run - fast!     :-)

Goose eggs taste lovely too :-)

Looking back, I'm sure the reason for the geese was the same as the trouble you're having.    There were some really nasty pieces of work around at the time who would have had no problem tormenting the horses and the farmer himself just for the fun of it.

Nice try dill but Tecknely if the geese were brought for the purpose of detering people  Yep that would also not be allowed, also if you think an animal may pose a danger to the public you can't have it in a field where the public are likely to use. Seems the law has thought of everything someone could do to try to keep people away. So I'd assume if the geese chased people they could complain about them to council.

Here's a link to info on the law. Ive not read it all but from what I have it seems to take away all the rights of landowners leaving them at the mercy of the public, which yes responsible one's won't cause a problem but as we all know there are to many irresponsible people in the world. A part about if you want to keep people away from a sensitive area just says to put in a path going around it and a sign saying the path is the best route to use but you can't make any one stick to it it so you have to hope people use it.

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A309336.pdf

But the purpose of the geese wouldn't be to be a deterrant, it would be for their wonderful eggs and to keep the horse company ;)

From what I've read, the act provides a defence if you shoot the dog for worrying livestock on agricultural land - subject to stringent regulations, obviously ;)

If there are sheep in the field, worrying livestock is simply a dog being loose in the field! - there's no mention of it having to actually chase the sheep.

The dog attacking the horse is already an offence, so I don't understand why the police aren't interested.

One thing that strikes me about this act is the way land owners etc are supposed to try and talk to people acting unreasonably.  In my experience, this is more often than not, a fail.  People acting unreasonably are not going to suddenly become reasonable, they usually get even more unreasonable and agressive if they think their 'rights' are being infringed - the right to act any way they please and not consider others, the right to make others feel unconfortable, the right to make others feel intimidated, the right to throw their weight around as they please.    How is any reasonable person supposed to talk to a person like this without risk to themselves and their property?

Perhaps the way to deal with these people is to find oput where they live, and start camping in their garden and creating a nuisance.  Since it appears from the act that the whole of Scotland is public access - this must apply to all land - right?  :-D

Remember, the law is a blunt instrument and very pedantic, unless it specifically excludes people's private gardens from public access, then they are fair game ;)

The law does exclude private gardens, it's something to do with how close to a residence people would be accessing. So if you tried to say hundreds of acres were your garden, it wouldn't wash, but if people would be walking right past your house, you'd have a case.
There's a walk I use near me, part of the walk involves using a stile over a five foot fence with barbed wire on the top, the stile is easily negotiated by people, but it would be very difficult to get a dog of any size over it, perhaps that might be a possibility ?.

But the purpose of the geese wouldn't be to be a deterrant, it would be for their wonderful eggs and to keep the horse company

True lol, but dont know what would happen if the geese did chase people.


One thing that strikes me about this act is the way land owners etc are supposed to try and talk to people acting unreasonably.  In my experience, this is more often than not, a fail.  People acting unreasonably are not going to suddenly become reasonable, they usually get even more unreasonable and agressive if they think their 'rights' are being infringed - the right to act any way they please and not consider others, the right to make others feel unconfortable, the right to make others feel intimidated, the right to throw their weight around as they please.    How is any reasonable person supposed to talk to a person like this without risk to themselves and their property?

That seems to be the problem i can see with it dill, it seems land owners cant do anything except to ask people nicely to be responsible on there land and thats it. Like with everything else the few spoil it for everyone else i guess. I like the idea of the law but do think it needs changing to give some protection to land owners. Like making dogs be kept leads around any livestock (people could use long leads or extendable leads very easyly).

The fields i walk in behind my house the train people put in a new style when they had to pull the fencing up to fix the track but the one they put back has extra bits of wood so you cant even fit a chi threw it now, and its quite high up so lifting a big dog over will most likley end in the owner falling over it. So some owners have been ripping up the fencing so there dogs can get in, the farmer keeps fixing it but they keep doing it (one owner complained to me about the farmer fixing the fence!). People like that wont change i dont think. i feel sorry for the farmer who has to keep fixing his fence.

i am sorry but i think the best option for the o/p is to move her horse to an unattractive field with no river and as far from humans as she can manage to get to herself. a field with no prettiness, no river,no nice view, no hares/rabbits for poachers to go after/no mushrooms for the terminally stupid and with a bit of luck her horse might be left alone. replaceing fenceing is pointless unless you can bill the people who will rip it down so they can take their dog to run and mess all over the grass she is paying for.

alternatly someone i know keeps a llarma with their horses . he hates dogs. loves people . hates dogs/foxes and will chase them out of his field. not actually dangerous for the dogs as they can run quicker then him but does mean a distinct lack of loose dogs harassing her horses.

What an awful situation :(
I'm so glad we own land in England!!

I know of someone whose dog was shot dead by a farmer for being off lead in the same field as livestock (sheep). 

Right to roam is one thing but attacking livestock is not acceptable.  Do you know anyone with a gun?  I'd put up some stern notices saying 'dogs worrying livestock WILL be shot' and maybe ask someone to patrol around there with a gun looking menacing, a few times to get the word out!

> ask someone to patrol around there with a gun looking menacing

:-o Really! Great way to get said person arrested!

I think we're getting a bit carried away here. Sensible options have been given, build a dog proof wooden/wire fence between horse's part of field and the river, include a stile for people only, it's likely the stakes are simply falling over in the other one. Make sure there is access to the river for walkers that means they don't need to go through the horses field and I'm pretty sure that will be enough.

> ask someone to patrol around there with a gun looking menacing

Really! Great way to get said person arrested!

Quite, or even shot ... specially given circumstances of a few years ago in my county :-O :-O

Why would anyone get arrested for walking around a field they rent with a gun, assuming they have a gun licence and permission from the landowner?? 

It is perfectly legal for a dog to be shot for worrying livestock and the owner of the livestock is within their legal rights to make it clear with signage that this action will be taken.

In the case I stated above, no legal action was taken against the farmer for shooting the dog.  I advised the dog owner, who was a client of mine, to seek legal action by phoning Trevor Cooper of Dog Law and had it confirmed that no legal action could be taken/was likely to be successful because it was the farmer's right to shoot at any dog worrying livestock.

Assuming the owner of a gun has a gun licence and is on land where they have permission to shoot, then no law has been broken should they shoot at dogs worrying their livestock - or make it clear that they intend to take this action.

Personally, if I had a horse with physical injuries due to dog-worrying and the local joe public was taking no notice of my polite requests, and the police weren't interested - then I would have no choice but to take that perfectly legal way forwards.

Please don't think that everything relating to guns is illegal, it is perfectly defensible to defend your livestock on your own property against predators.

You most certainly can shoot a dog worrying livestock however you DO have to have a good reason to be out wandering about with a gun.  The fact the gun is legally owned doesn't mean you can have it with you without just cause. IF you have had issues with dogs it would be acceptable to sit out and see if they return however wandering round armed without cause is likely to cause alarm and gain police attention.

Armed police were called to a small duck pond we pick up on when people spotted armed people wandering the fields. This is on private land and a legitimate shoot but helicopter and armed response turned up ... It's funny to look back on but wasn't at the time. Now we call the local police station with shoot dates so it doesn't happen again

klb, I'd think that having a gun to shoot at dogs worrying livestock would be a just cause for carrying the gun... even if you had to pop home to pick it up...