My 6 pups are 6 weeks on Monday.
They had the 2nd worming with Panacur finishing last Wednesday. Mum really does only go on for a second or 2 and so they are living on the Arden Grange weaning food. I have just started in the 2nd bag. They are gaining weight and seem happy, playful etc.
They are though still producing varying runny poos. Some soft and formed ish others a bit towards shooting out. They do get a drink of formula milk at bedtime but nothing else. Any ideas as to what I can do firm them up.

I never use the weaning food which is 32% ish, but go straight to the puppy/Junior which is a bit lower.

I would say the food is just too rich for the amount they eat.  It's only recomended to 8 weeks anyway.

I never give milk to pups as each time I tried in the past it caused stomach upsets. They don't need it anyway, they get what milk they need from mum and when that stops, they're fine without.

I find that it is milk also, I used to give it to them at bedtime but found it gave them the runs. I even tried goats milk but don't do that anymore either

I have been having a similar problem. My puppies are just over 6 weeks and since they finally got the hang of real food things have varied from almost water to liquid through soft to formed. I don't remember previous litters being this bad.

I am feeding tinned butchers tripe mixed with applaws puppy biscuit as this was the only food they would eat reliably. They are still getting fed from mum sometimes. They love raw but I have found when they have a raw meal things deteriorate so I have stopped that now. Their future owners don't want to feed raw anyway and I will see what happens with the one I keep once the others have gone.

I do wonder if they are picking up things when they are playing in the garden. We have had a problem with large flocks of starlings over the last few weeks roosting in trees and making a mess of the gardens recently but thankfully they seem to have stopped that now.

Well at least I know that I'm not alone. I will cut out the milk completely but it is is strange as I have dome exactly the same with other litters and not had a problem. I know they don't need milk but when I have been putting it down they go mad for it.
I did have some pro kolin left so tried that but have run out and so have to get more. I've had the odd puppy before but a long while since the whole litter.
Also the one girl puppy is about 600 grams behind the smallest boy and is looking noticeable smaller all round now. I know she will be smaller anyway but is this the sort of gap you would normally expect.
This morning whem cleaning the night pen I had some yellowish foamy poo but it was only one lot and I have not seen who did it. Cleaning up will be so much easier if I can resolve this.

Unfortunately with a problem like this there will be so many of us rushing to give our "expert" advice, and it looks like I'm one of them!
I am not a great believer in the convenient kibbled foods but I have used and probably will again because they are "convenient"!!

Without making huge changes to their diet and causing more problems, try giving less kibble and replace with some boiled chicken, rabbit or fish. Also "Natural live Goats" yogourt can help replace any missing bacteria in the gut.
A raw chicken wing each day could help but there is a lot of fat in the skin and if your tummies are already a bit unreliable maybe the cooked meat would be best.
Stop any milk top up that you are giving, this is not needed and not made by mum!

Good luck. :)

Grateful for advice. I will avoid adding any other foods because I have owners who intend to feed this way and I myself have never gone down the raw track although I add meat to my older dogs food ( cooked )
Maybe the yoghurt route is the way forward. I have watched them just now and I would say for some it is slightly more form although soft but a bit yellowy. Last milk they had was bedtime last night. I don't intend to give them any more milk so wil see if there is a further improvement. If I can't get hold of Goats yoghurt ( Sunday ) is there an alternative.

> If I can't get hold of Goats yoghurt ( Sunday ) is there an alternative.

Most supermarkets sell St Helen's farm goats milk yogurt. But if not, any that say probiotic should be OK. Onken is about the cheapest, just £1 a large pot in Waitrose at the moment.

Goats milk yogourt is by far the best as goats milk can be more easily digested by our dogs and puppies than cows milk. (less trauma for unsettled tummies)
However, if there is no Goats yogourt to be found the ordinary cows milk ones will be better than nothing as long as the carton says "live" bacteria  :)

I think that so long as your small girl is fit and healthy and gaining weight, eating ok, etc, I wouldn't worry about the weight discrepancy. I have found that what might be the smallest pup in the litter at this age, does not necessarily remain the smallest :-) Have also had 1kg range in weight differences!

I have found that hard boiled eggs are quite good for 'firming' up loose stools. You could mash it down for the puppies, or even try scrambled egg without the milk.

Hope they're firming up by now though ;-)

I am just back with the natural yogurt. It is Yeo Valley Organic Bio live. Wopndering how much to give.

Mmmm, Yeo Valley, my very favourite! Yum, lucky puppies. My pups get yog from a very early age, they get a little bit of all sorts with their kibble as they're growing. If it's their first time I'd just put a couple of spoons onto a saucer and let them enjoy. If giving to my big dogs, say after a course of antibiotics, I'd give a good tablespoon on their dinner, so maybe something equivalent to a teaspoon per pup for starters? Hope they enjoy ;-)

Many thanke going to give it now so hoped for an  answer. Would you do a few times a day.

OK well I suspect they thought it was wormer to start with and when they realised it was that they loved it and were licking it off  the spoon.
Now fed them as well and they are all tucking in. Have also given to two of my older dogs as I did read it was good for itchy dogs. They are not that bad but do tend towards being a bit itchy here and there..
SO just need to know how often I should give especially as I have a problem. But generally.
I'm a bit out in the sticks and so went aroound a few express shops the closes I got was Vanilla Onkken but  left that alone. Our small local co-op had that Yeo Valley  at £1.75 for a large tub.

I would probably use it 2 twice a day, morning and evening but get another in today, (you are only using small amounts) maybe 3 times if you think it is working, of course it all depends on your supply.     Difficult to advise when it's not your own pups and no two situations are the same!
Take care not to use any flavoured ones just the "natural".
Some stores have their own brand of "Economy" yogourt, this is normally Natural and Live. and it works perfectly well.
Dont forget,  No more of your milk feeds !!! :)
Best wishes.

They have had it twice now. No huge change as I saw one with yellowy loose stool but some are starting to be soft slightly formed so perhaps they are on their way. I have cut the food down a little and may not feed them now until the morning, They all drink water so that is not a problem. I imagine it can take a while to react in their system

> Well at least I know that I'm not alone. I will cut out the milk completely but it is is strange as I have dome exactly the same with other litters and not had a problem.

I have found if I continue to give milk past the time Mum is feeding them appreciable amounts they can get a bit looser than I like.

As I understand as weaning progresses they get less able to digest milk.

Like you with some litters not an issue, but with some others as soon as I stopped milk altogether things firmed up very quickly.  Doesn't see to be from the same bitches either.

Oh I have used the Onken set bio yogurt, and at that age would give them a tablespoon dollop each.

Still runny to-night. I hate this subject but in your experience how long before I am likely to see an improvement.

I'd expect a day as they are usually firmer in the day and as they eat, or over eat, get a bit looser.  have you tried kaolin?

An update. It was playing on my mind and I was up at 4am. Cleaned everything, again, put some eggs on to boil and gave them all some. The smallest puppy was really yellow and loose and I decided to take her to the vet in the morning which I have done. He checked her over, temperature, gums etc and all seemed normal.
I gave hime all the facts he looked at the sample of hers I had taken. He thinks we can rule out worms on the basis they have just been done with Panacur and I came home with 2 tubes of Canikur Pro ( used to be Pro-kolin ). It is a darker subsgtance and they don't seem to enjoy it like Pro kolin as I have had pups do in the past. So I have to give them this twice a day for 3 days. I feel that there has been an improvement now as I have not seen any yellowy stools although they are still soft so hoping this will go from now to a complete cure.
They loved the yogurt and should have asked whether it was Ok to continue this. I'll update again when I think they are over it.

It's good to hear that you have been to the vet, it is much better to do that than carry on with remedies that are not really working for you.
The yogurt will do the puppies no harm but the goats yogurt will be best.
As I feed raw I often buy a tub for my girls and especially after any anesthetic.
Have fun with your pups, let's hope the puppies start to mend now.  :)

I wormed my pups this time with Panacur at 2 & 5 weeks as recommended on the product. This is the first time I have done this as I normally do 2,4,6/
I am starting to get pretty paranoid and I see most sites suggest every 2 weeks. Mostly they are bron and soft but overnight I can see yellowish runny stool. I thought this stage had cleared up.  I gave them some of the yogurt before bedtime.  They have started the 2nd day of the treatment now but I am starting to get upset as they only have 2 weeks to go before they go to their new homes.
Mum was wormed with Panacur in pregnancy and in her food for the couple of days after but now I'm thinking as she was off her food etc that perhaps that made a difference as she did not eat everything then.
I've wormed her again since as well. I know you can use Drontal in pups from 2 weeks so thinking of ringing vet to buy this instead as they hated the Panacur.
Instead of enjoying them I'm getting quite distressed. Can't believe I have this problem after all the years of not having this sort of problem. Plus newspaper supplies almost run out!

Also they are are not particularly putting on any weight and up uintil I started the worming and all this sarted they were gaining minimum100 gms a day. Something must be not right. They are still running about happy enough OK.

As all else has failed is it time to change food, it may be that it doesn't agree with this litter?

Yesterday, the biggest puppy missed 2 meals and he had not put on any weight. Offered him cheese, food on his own and he just spat it out. I did give him milk though ( bad girl ) because I needed to see whether he would have nothing at all. He ate that. I called the vet again and after discussion decided to go again with worming, this time with Milbemax. I've obviously continued with the other things.
He did shoot out a lot of watery stuff with yellowy bits in it. The others were OK in themselves but at last night he didn't seem himself at all.
This morning, hoorah I have seen a couple of normal poos. They have all eaten and all of them are running about playing, fighting and so on.
I am feeling a lot better about them this morning and hoping we are all on the mend.
When I asked  about the Panacur and the fact i did 2 & 5 weeks as suggested and not 2 & 4 as I normally  do, he said each situation is so different?
I know next time I think I will do Panacur liquid at 2 weeks and then something like Drontal at the next worming which they can have from 2 weeks.

Yesterday, the biggest puppy missed 2 meals and he had not put on any weight. Offered him cheese, food on his own and he just spat it out. I did give him milk though ( bad girl ) because I needed to see whether he would have nothing at all. He ate that. I called the vet again and after discussion decided to go again with worming, this time with Milbemax. I've obviously continued with the other things.
He did shoot out a lot of watery stuff with yellowy bits in it. The others were OK in themselves but at last night he didn't seem himself at all.
This morning, hoorah I have seen a couple of normal poos. They have all eaten and all of them are running about playing, fighting and so on.
I am feeling a lot better about them this morning and hoping we are all on the mend.
When I asked  about the Panacur and the fact i did 2 & 5 weeks as suggested and not 2 & 4 as I normally  do, he said each situation is so different?
I know next time I think I will do Panacur liquid at 2 weeks and then something like Drontal at the next worming which they can have from 2 weeks.

I have had exactly the same problem with my puppies as you describe. puppies being quiet and not coming for food and stools like water. It did not affect all puppies at he same time but several have shown the same symptoms over a few days, The last time I had really watery stools was when I gave them the 7 week dose of Panacur. I had several with watery stools so stopped the wormer after the second dose. They are just coming up to 9 weeks so  I should worm the one I am keeping again but will get Drontal and try that.

I did not worm mum during pregnancy this time for various reasons.

If it helps my pups have been a lot better for the last week. I completely stopped the raw food they were getting and stuck to the tinned butchers tripe and Applaws biscuit. I don't give them milk but they are getting fed from one of my bitches. Not mum but another girl came into milk after having a phantom and adopted the puppies. Mum was only too happy to let her have the hassle. I did try seperating them but she was so determined she wanted the babies I gave up in the end and let them get on with it.

It is always good to hear others with similar experience( not for them ) but you start to feel your pups are really not well.
This morning poos are long way from perfect except for a couple of them but they are not like they were. The others have all put on weight but now waiting to see if the big puppy gets back to normal gaining weight as well. My vet said he would expect them not to be gaining loads with the abnormal production.
I did worm Mum with Panacur during pregnancy and it was in her food for that couple of days afterwards. I also wormed her again when the pups were done the first time ( but not 2nd ) but have wormed her with the Milbemax now along with the pups.
I would always go back to worming again at 4 weeks now but probably with something like the Milbemax that is Ok for the age and is easier as one dose and not so hard to get down with them.  Hope mine and yours are on the road to complete wellness before you know it. I have one more dose of the pro kolin stuff to give and am still giving the yogurt as my vet said can do no harm and may help. They have all eating really well this morning I am for the time being  offering more meals and if they don't eat fair enough but I find some do at some meals and others the next time. Just until I am happy they are all back on the weight gain they had before.

Just to say re worming timings.

I have always wormed the pups only twice as I have done the bitches in whelp I do them at 3 weeks and then 7, allowing their systems to settle before homing. 

I then tell new owners to do them at 11 weeks, and monthly from then on to 6 months.  This then means they are done between any vaccinations.

It is important to get the dosage right for each individual pup and make sure it all goes down.  I have never had any trouble syringing it down their throats and holding mouth closed until it's all swallowed.

the only time I had bad diarrhoea with pups was when I wormed at 2 and 5 weeks, an again at 8 (the first two times I had some loose and some very loose). I suspect as the bitch had been wormed in whelp there just wasn't anything much for the worms to work on, hence the problem.

Previous litters I had done at 4 and 8 weeks per vet instruction as it used to be dispensed in plain bottles by them.  So I went back to this but slightly modified regime.

Panacur covers most types of worms except for the main tape worm, Drontal puppy ditto. I am not sure if Milbemax covers anything else, as there is a possibility that either the worming wasn't complete or that there was a different pest, that the Milbemax covered.

Milbemax does roundworms, hookworms and can be used in the prevention of heartworm disease. There is a list of long names on the data sheet but these are the main ones mentiones on the box. It can be used in pregnancy and is a chewable tablet and I will definitely ask advice about it if I have a pregnant bitch in the future.
I am just kicking myself for not following my normal protocol but too late to cry over that now. The pups stools are returning to normal, some are normal and are gaining weight again as they should be. It has been a complete nightmare and has spoilt things a bit but hopefully the last couple of weeks will be more than just cleaning up and studying who is producing what!!!