Not really sure where to post this and not 100% sure if I want advise or just a vent so please bear with me!

I took my girls for a walk first thing this morning and because I was a bit short of time I went to the nearby public park I rarely visit because there is always loads of rubbish food lying around which means that 2 of the three need to be on leads as they will go off rooting.  So my springer was off lead but under control.  She does not approach other dogs at all and has an impeccable recall.  So while she was not to heel and was running free she was in sight close by and under as much control as she would have been on, for example a long line or flexi lead.

As we were half way around some guy whose dog was on a lead and approaching us called something I got the impression it was along the lines of you need to put your dog on a lead.  I called back that she would not go near him and I would keep her under control.  His response was "It doesn't matter if yours is alright mine is not" - Fine but we are in a public place and my dog is under my control and will not approach.  Besides which we were not going the same way as him, his dog (a typical sort of leggy staffy mix that you seem to see in rescues) just looked overexcited and undersocialised to be truthful.  Anyways he went his way, generally calling some sort of abuse and I went mine ignoring him.

Now this park is a sort of triangle its maybe an acre or so, not big at all.  Normally I sort of zig zag across it.  The way the guy had gone cut off one direction for me and as I continued I spotted in a far corner a guy well known to any dog walkers who go in there.  He has a very aggressive Rottweiler which he does not muzzle and frequently has off lead.  He appeared to be doing some work with it, however it was as usual off lead and unmuzzled.  Far enough away that I would not disturb him and my dogs were in no danger I turned to head back home.  As we were walking up towards the top of the park I heard the first guy shout to a third guy who for the duration had been standing with his big fluffy (maybe akita type) dog holding him off lead with his hand on a body harness directly on what was now my only path out of the park.  He had been standing there for the duration I did not hear what the first guy said but I clearly heard him respond with "well it's ok mine will have it". 

As we approached I called Roxy in and popped her lead on as I was concerned how close to the path he was and I felt his behaviour was quite threatening.  As we then approached him he finally moved a step or two off the path.  and once we were past I let her back off lead to finish our walk. 

I am a bit upset about this for a variety of reasons.  One is that I got the impression all these big tough guys with their big tough dogs know each other, nobody else was around which is unusual for that place so I suspect they do this fairly regular.  They were obviously working with dog aggressive dogs (or I assume that is the explaination)  They did not speak in any way that was friendly or conducive to a nice morning meeting.  None of these dogs had muzzles on and to be honest if you have a dog that is truly that bad then a body harness is not something that is secure enough in my opinion.

I am in two minds as to whether I should report this to the dog warden or something.  For a start this is a small public park to have 3 big dog aggressive dogs in at any one time seems a recipe for trouble to me even if one of them was on a lead 2 were not.  Secondly this was around 8:30 this morning, children walk to school through there, parents with young children walk through with dogs, granted this happened in the lower less public part not on the main route through.  Finally they were really aggressive in the way they reacted towards me, I felt like I had no right to be there.  Kudos to them for trying to work with their dogs but I don't think working 3 aggressive dogs in one place together like that will help any of them.  I appreciate if my dog had approached any of them then by all means but she never went within 15 feet of any of them.  It was the ongoing abuse that was sent in my direction.  I admit to being pretty easygoing with my dogs but they were all under control, none of them so much as looked at any of the other dogs.  And what on earth would they do if some stray dog came on the park.  This area has plenty of latch key dogs and plenty of better less trafficked areas to take your "problem" dog.  If you are that worried about the dog why not train it to get used to a baskerville muzzle so you can both relax a bit when out.  In fact, my beagle would make a great stooge dog for one like the staffy x who just looked undersocialised as she is friendly and nicely submissive, dogs never ever seem to see her as any sort of threat.  If they had been muzzled I would have encouraged them to approach if they wanted to help their dogs.  as it was I felt really quite scared.

>  For a start this is a small public park to have 3 big dog aggressive dogs in at any one time seems a recipe for trouble to me even if one of them was on a lead 2 were not.

The abuse you got from the man was bang out of order, but, from your description, the other dogs were neither agressive nor out of control. One was leashed, one was held and the loose one didn't come near you.

> If you are that worried about the dog why not train it to get used to a baskerville muzzle so you can both relax a bit when out.

A muzzle only stops a dog being able to bite, it does not help in fixing any problems and would do little in helping one stay relaxed when thier leashed dog is faced with a strangers loose dog. Keeping dogs out of your dogs space is the biggest challenge when trying to work with a reactive dog. A polite request to other owners to leash thier dog would be apt, but people do not like to leash thier own dogs if thier own dog has no problems.

These men may well all know each other and all use the park at the same time to work with thier dogs becasue they all will keep thier dogs out the way of each other, which will be helpful for thier dogs - or it may be a coincidence. Unfortuantely one seems rude/agressive (or frustrated at lack of co-operatioon form other dog walkers) and another seems full of macho bravado :(

>It doesn't matter if yours is alright mine is not

This was the man thinking of YOUR dogs safety, his dog was leashed and unable to approach your loose dog, but the man had no control over your dog and did not know if your dog would approach and put itself in danger (friednly dogs often approach other dogs), hence the request for you to leash it.

I agree about the dogs being under reasonable control.  Personally if I had a reactive dog I would be more inclined to pal up with non reactive dogs but I guess at least they are trying to do something.

I appreciate the man was thinking of me but having given fair warning then it is my job to look after my dog and he would have been better off looking after his as the result of him fixating on my dogs was that his otherwise not so bothered dog did.  I am generally pretty decent about getting my dogs collected if they are causing problems and they are all pretty dog savvy and safe anyway, even the uber friendly beagle stops at an appropriate distance from a leashed dog.

My main concern to be honest was the chap blocking the path who seemed quite happy to allow his dog to "have mine"  I really do sympathise with anyone having problems of any sort with a dog.  Used to drive me mad when I was trying to work the beagles recall to watch folk handing out sweeties to her when they could hear me calling, so I would never allow my dogs to jeapordise someone's work.  I was almost tempted to report threatening behaviour at the police station round the corner as these were 3 big guys with big dogs as against 8 stone me with a gang of wimps!

I just won't bother going there again.  It's a bit naff and I have to be careful about letting the dogs off anyway and having had a load of aggro there now I shall just cross it off my list! :(

Having a dog that may react (although not bite, just a lot of vocalisation) when onlead I can understand. If an off lead dog makes up unsettled he will bark and lunge however it is always him that gets the brunt of it. Although not Your fault, my bet is you are the 100th person that has said 'my dog is fine' and probably the 99 before you have had their dog run up and make his dog react.

Doing so in a polite way might have been better but he is probably fed up and tired of his dog being approached onlead and then shouted at for reacting!

I understand that - although I did say to him don't worry my dog will not go near you, she is not fine she is generally quite timid despite a lot of great socialisation and she certainly had no interest in approaching him or his dog.  It was the continued abuse I got all the way across the park, at one point he was almost trailling me albeit from about 20 yards away to continue to shout abuse.  To be honest, if that is how he deals with the situations then it is no wonder the dog is reactive.

> I was almost tempted to report threatening behaviour at the police station round the corner as these were 3 big guys with big dogs as against 8 stone me with a gang of wimps!

Personally, I would opt for that rather than a dog warden. The bloke holding the dog by the harness was being a gobby, macho, prat (he wouldn't have been holding his dog if he was not concerned about other dogs safety and/or reprecussions for him & his dog). Perhaps if a police officer had a word with him, he would realise he needs to keep his mouth in check. I can't see why the police would not be interested as his behaviour can be seen as intimidating & possibly the threat of using his dog as a weapon.

>  at one point he was almost trailling me albeit from about 20 yards away to continue to shout abuse

Oh my gosh that makes me sooooo mad!! There was I, trying to see the situation from all POVs and he's being a completely unreasonable bully Yep, have a word with the police.

It was a difficult one as he was very passive aggressive about it.  It was all along the lines of are you stupid you are so irresponsible your dog will get hurt and so on.  The only real active threat came from the other guy although between them I had no safe way out of the park!

>  at one point he was almost trailling me albeit from about 20 yards away to continue to shout abuse

Oh my gosh that makes me sooooo mad!! There was I, trying to see the situation from all POVs and he's being a completely unreasonable bully  Yep, have a word with the police.

^^^^^^ Agreed

Sadly this sort of situation is happening more and more often these days. People taking aggressive dogs into public parks and open spaces.
Because of these idiots who have breeds  they cannot control, have no breed knowledge of, or any idea how to train and very little inclination to learn, the rest of us with nice well socialised happy dogs are very limited to where we can walk or allow our dogs a free run.
There are so many dogs around now, that are reactive, nervous or down right aggressive that having dogs and being able to let them have fun and play with other dogs becomes more and more difficult.
I think rescue centres also have a lot to answer for, they give dogs to the general public who have issues and problems and tell them just to not let it off the lead.
People obtain these dogs because they feel sorry for them when they here about their past history, but they very often do not have the skills or training to resolve the dogs problems, and some problems can be so deep set that the dog is never going to become a normal well adjusted dog.
Very often they seek the help of a training class, but this is not always the best situation for a highly nervous or aggressive dog and they need to be assessed by a qualified behaviourist. People who take a dog from a shelter  often do so because they have a limited amount of money, and can not afford to seek the help of a behaviourist. The poor dog spends the rest of it's life being miserable and the owners become frightened of taking the dog for a walk, in case they should bump into other dogs, or they become aggressive to every owner they see with a dog off lead !!
The men obviously knew that their dogs were not to be trusted with others, and I would think that they have bullied other people in the same way previously. Obviously with the same result, people feel intimidated and don't go back to the area so in effect the bullies have won.
I can only sympathise with you as in law they would be in the right as their dog was on the lead and your was not, if an incident occurred.
I think the time is not that far off that unless you have your own land or a private place dogs will not be allowed free socialisation and all dogs will have to be kept on lead at all times, which will be a very sad state of affairs and then we will see even more problem dogs.
I have heard of a group of people who have clubbed together to rent a field so that they have somewhere safe to exercise their dogs and a boarding kennels that was also offering a similar service, perhaps that might be a way forward, groups of dog owners in an area banding together and sharing the cost.
At least it would be a safe haven away from idiots so would be well worth the cost, and I am sure not everyone would be using the facility at the same time of day so it could work well.

My dog can be very vocal and will warn other dogs that make him uncomfortable. He is more sensitive than I would like, it all started when he was set upon by a large retriever (bigger than him and he is a sizable GSD) and a Labrador. As you say, it is extremely hard and a long process to re-socialise him with other male dogs because so few people are accepting of letting their dogs play with a GSD and it comes to a point where he only gets to meet other males in a positive scenario once in a blue moon.

I have the advantage of a very savvy dog walker who is good at pairing up other males for him to play with nicely so he gets a lot of positive experiences through her.

> It was a difficult one as he was very passive aggressive about it. It was all along the lines of are you stupid you are so irresponsible your dog will get hurt and so on. The only real active threat came from the other guy although between them I had no safe way out of the park!

I'd have felt very intimidated by these men - as you say, they were blocking the exits as well as being abusive, makes you wonder what they were doing there, I'll bet it was more than just a walk in the park. Wroth reporting to the Dog Warden (if you have a good one) or mentioning it to police especially if you felt frightened.

I felt totally unnerved just reading your post, it's a shame that a nice walk is ruined by dogs which are not dog friendly, nothing like seeing your dog running free and with aggressive dogs around it was not possible without a whole lot of stress.

TBH, I would have put my dog on a lead when approaching a dog aggressive dog, it doesn't matter if you have complete control the other dog owner does not know or trust that and it can cause a dog aggressive dog to react worse and become really hard to handle in seeing a loose dog.

None of the men let their dogs go for yours or did not control them in the end, even though the worry was there, so I don't actually know what you could complain about apart from the way you were made to feel, they were viewing you and yours as the threat to trouble. (Unfortunately)

It's not the way a dog walk should be I agree, but more and more dog aggressive dogs are here to stay, it's a case of many of us having to find somewhere where our well socialised dogs can run free without much chance of incident and those places are becoming harder to find.

Praise be I'm in a place with friendly dogs, it seems more and more people are doing long pavement walks for fear of attacks, so sad, and I don't know what can be done, it is not fair.

I'm just glad that your Springer and other dogs came out unhurt and right or wrong I wouldn't be back there unless there were lots of people about, a dog walk is supposed to be pleasurable that one sure wasn't! :-(

My walk yesterday was spoiled by selfish dog owners. Firstly a dog was running all round the car park, right near a fast road, whilst the elderly owner held a phone conversation. (Nothing makes me more wild than dog walkers on the phone. Surely they can give their dogs that much quality time in a day, not just walking and having no interaction with their dogs.) I couldn't let mine out safely because of the proximity to the road and they would have wanted to run after the out of control dog. I didn't want dislocated arms. On return to the car park, an owner let his 3 black dogs hurtle under the gate to the field where they wildly ran in all directions. Mine were on the lead (near the road again.) When the owner came in sight it was obvious why his dogs were not on leads: no way could he hold them, his walking stick and the brown dog on a lead so they were just allowed to go wild. Final straw was an Airedale in the car park, still on lead, up on her back legs, snarling at my dogs but hey, you've guessed it, she was "only talking"!  This is not somewhere I would walk through choice but most of this side of the New Forest is "out of bounds" at the moment due to the unexplained deaths of 13 dogs. Not much choice of walks at the moment so I could do without selfish idiots being in the country park which, incidentally, is covered in dog poo.

There's still a problem in the New Forest?
I do hope this woodland problem in the UK gets sorted out soon. It seems to be spreading and I'm beginning to get paranoid about going into woodland with a dog

I'm lucky where I live and generally walk dogs. There are lots of footpaths and I rarely see other dog walkers and that can produce a problem all of its own. I have to make myself take the dog elsewhere for socialisation purposes or they end up becoming a bit antisocial.

> Not much choice of walks at the moment

I can only walk my older dog around 'the block' in my village as he can't manage a longer road walk and since the local farmer stopped people walking along the edge of the fields (I do take both dogs in the car to a local common too). At the end of my road live a couple in their 60s (?). They have a lab and a rotti x. The husband is short and has great difficulty controlling the rotti which barks and lunges every time it sees anyone or a car :( The lab is dog aggressive according to the wife who I speak too sometimes if I meet her when she hasn't got the dog. Fortunately I don't meet them very often, but the other day, as I was returning home, I saw them coming down the lane towards me. They indicated that they would go into the field entrance and they stood behind the hedge. As I walked past, both dogs were barking and the lab lunged and pulled the woman over ! She was lying flat on the ground with her arm stretched out towards me with the lab trying to get to us, but fortunately she didn't let go of the lead. I had no choice but to flee up the road as if I tried to help it would only make matters worse :( I dread to think what would have happened if she had let go of the lead :( :( Her husband would have been in no position to help :( :( If I see them again, I will just have to turn around and walk in the opposite direction. It is only a matter of time until some one/dog gets hurt :( :( I dread walking past their house as there is no side gate and I can see right into their back garden - I can only guess that they never let the dogs into the garden - or if they do, they must have them on leads !

It was certainly very intimidating, I think what I may do is walk through on my own another day at the same sort of time and see if it really is a regular thing.  If that is the case then I will definitely mention it to the police as it was certainly intimidating behavior if not aggressive as such. 

So sad to hear so many people seem to have problems with walking their dogs.  I admit my beagle can be a bit over friendly and that is another reason she is not allowed off lead there as I am well aware the people who walk their dogs over there are just joe public and not real dog people that we get a bit further away. 

And I just found out somebody was attacked with a baseball bat in there last night/early this morning.  Not sure why they were there at that sort of time but I will certainly report my own experience to the police although fromt eh descriptions given I do not think it was any of these guys who were the attacker.  And I will not be going there ever again dogs or no dogs!