I haven't been a particularly regular poster on here since our beloved Stitch was PTS a couple of years ago, but for those who remember me, I do still visit fairly frequently :)

Anyway, we've been giving some serious consideration lately to getting another dog - maybe a pup from a good breeder, or maybe taking on a rescue. Last week, a friend of mine passed me a link to what seemed like a great dog, in a fairly local rescue. I've enquired, only to find that because the dog is deemed to be 'boisterous' (this is a fairly young dog of a typically bouncy breed), anyone wishing to rehome the dog must sign up for a course of 10 compulsory training classes with the trainer that the rescue works closely with.

In theory, I have no issue with that, any dog we take on will go to regular training classes anyway. The problem for me, on enquiring about the compulsory trainer that I would have to use - they use methods similar to Caesar Milan, and seem very keen on 'preventing dominance' - not a route I want to go down as I don't agree with these training methods. I asked if I could provide proof of attendance from the trainer that runs my local class (all positive methods, clicker training etc) if I could take the dog there instead, but the answer was a flat No - you must use our trainer for a minimum of 10 lessons, if you don't complete the lessons we'll take the dog back. If you don't agree to do the lessons, we won't even consider you as a potential home for any of our dogs.

I totally agree with the taking training lessons with a new rescue dog, but to so restrict their potential new homes only to people who are prepared to use these sort of training methods seems shortsighted and very closed minded. Even sadder, this young dog is in a kennel, not a foster home, and has already been there for over 2 months and they're turning homes away because people want to use positive training methods :(

Just my GRRRRR for the day...

A Grrrr I totally agree with.  I wish I could find the article about the RSPCA, BVA, KC and other people who condemn his training ways.  It is such a shame that so many dogs have been destroyed just because owners copied his training methods and ended up with an aggressive dog, and sent it to a rehoming centre.

Hi - yes I remember you.  :-)

How stupid!! I'd have thought they run a big risk of having dogs returned to them when they start to become dangerous after having been treated CM style..... Never heard of anything like this before. Surely, like you say, a certificate proving you have been to classes should be enough, rather them demand you use their outdated and uneducated trainer.

Even if it doesn't help you and this dog now, I would contact the pet dog magazines such as Dogs Today and Your Dog with this story -this needs exposing and it might just change the rescue's mind if they get some bad publicity.

HUM! I smell money behind this, wonder how much of the fees the rescue get?

This sounds more like a money making ploy rather than genuine concern for the welfare of the dogs in their care.

Been thinking about this and got quite annoyed - think this Rescue! group needs to be taken to task and their behaviour taken to the local press - insist on training if you like but you should be able to deicide where your dog is trained and what method is used and to whom you pay your money. Do wonder if when they take these dogs in they tell the person gifting them what they will insist on before they can be rehomed.

Exactly Nova, this needs publicity!

Thanks for your replies everyone, I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this is a bit 'off'.

I've done a little more digging, and I have to say, I'm not entirely convinced that this rescue is in fact what I would call a genuine 'charity' type rescue, it strikes me as a private re-homing agency of sorts, who place dogs in boarding kennels while waiting for a home. They certainly aren't a registered charity (I know not all rescues are) from what I can see.

I'm going to ask my friend who sent me the info if she knows anymore about them - depending on what I can find out, I think a letter to one of the dog magazines might be in order, if only to raise people's attention to the dubious training methods they insist on rehomers using.

I fully applaud any rescue recommending, or in some circumstances insisting on training classes, but this should be at the discretion of the rehomer, with a trainer they know & trust.

>  I wish I could find the article about the RSPCA, BVA, KC and other people who condemn his training ways. 

This might be what you're looking for...
http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

Here's just one other interesting article (I have dozens bookmarked):
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=124687
Dog aggression may be caused by owners, new study finds (Although this was 2009 so not new now)

I can't imagine why any rescue would be able to insist that you take a block of at least 10 of their training classes, that sounds fishy to me and makes me wonder whether they really are a rescue or a dog dealer?   Surely a rescue should be primarily concerned with rehoming dogs to suitable homes as quickly as possible?

if you don't complete the lessons we'll take the dog back. If you don't agree to do the lessons, we won't even consider you as a potential home for any of our dogs

Having sold you the dog (call it what you like, but an 'adoption' where money changes hands is a sale)  I fail to see how they can take the dog back.   Under what law would they be able to do this?  

If it's to do with breaking the contract of paying for the 10 training classes, then surely that wouldn't hold up in a court, since you would be able to argue that the methods used in the training classes are unsatisfactory and contrary to those advised by the RSPCA etc.  ?   

I assume they would take payment for the lessons at the same time as the dog is collected.
Sounds very dodgy and not what a reputable rescue society would do. I hope you get the dog, for the dogs sake poor dog being left in kennels when a suitable home is available.
Is there any body that regulates rescue centres ? This is like Blackmail and smacks of a money making scam rather than a rescue centre that puts the welfare of the dogs as first priority.
Good Luck and please keep us updated.

Could you agree to the classes, go along and then refuse to do any kicking etc, just pretend to do it. Once you have the dog I cannot see how they can take the dog back especially if you are attending 'proper' training classes. After 1 class of the CM style, just leave and go to your own classes and defy them to take the dog back !!!!  they will not have a leg (or four) to stand on

Or go and take a friend/partner/accomplice who is going to film "to help you practise at home" and see how keen they are to have you there then.

Actually, I know it might sound a bit strange but I'd try trading standards, it's a bit like an estate agent saying we will only sell you one of the houses we advertise if you use our solicitor, everyone has a right to use whoever they like.

It's a shame that dominance type trainers are not illegal as the RSPCA may have had a say in this, but they are not, so they can't help either.

As well as reporting your story to mags, newspapers, I'd try trading standards too. :-)

The problem is that they could quite well say that you cannot adopt the dog if you make too much noise in the first place, or they will say the dog has already been rehomed. It depends how much you want this particular dog as to how much fuss you make before buying her. If you really want this dog then it might be better to make the fuss AFTER you have been accepted as the new owner.

Thanks MsTemeraire

I lost all my favourites when my old PC died.  I have now saved it to favourites on my new PC.  Much appreciated.  :-)

The problem is that they could quite well say that you cannot adopt the dog if you make too much noise in the first place, or they will say the dog has already been rehomed. It depends how much you want this particular dog as to how much fuss you make before buying her. If you really want this dog then it might be better to make the fuss AFTER you have been accepted as the new owner.

It depends on how strongly you feel about the future of the dogs - if you feel strongly enough that this is detrimental to the successful rehoming of needy dogs you do something about it but if on the other hand you are only interested in the dog you want then you probably do not stir things up.

I definitely don't think they'll be letting us have the dog, I was quite firm on the phone yesterday about how I disagreed with the training methods they recommend, and they now have my name, so sadly this dog won't be for us :(

To be honest, I'd only looked further into this dog as it was the breed we wanted (they don't seem to appear in rescue often), and a youngster too. In reality we were thinking maybe late summer to take on a rescue, or waiting however long it takes if we went down the pup from a breeder route.

I'm waiting for my friend to come back to me with more information, she just emailed a photo of the dog to me with the 'rescue' telephone number & contact name. She did give me the name of the place (which I won't share on here just yet until I've finished my digging) - a good internet search shows up no website for them, although there is a possible Facebook page, but with not enough info on it re. location & current dogs for me to say whether it's the same place or not.

It might be worth me asking a friend to 'mystery shop' them, pretending to agree with the training etc, and try to get something in writing - that way at least I may be able to take it further, at the moment if I went to TS, or the magazines, it's my word against theirs, and to be honest, I can't really find all that much out about who they actually are :(

Once I've managed to find out anymore, I'll keep you updated.