I bought a puppy almost 12 years ago. The only documents I ever received for him were a certificate of registration and a certificate of ownership transfer. I thought this was normal at the time as he was my first registered dog.

Earlier this year I bought a new puppy and I was surprised to get a full pedigree from the breeder. It was great to see the different names right through to his great-grandparents. I never even saw anything like this for my first puppy.

Both dogs are registered with the Irish Kennel Club. I have the kennel club number for my first dog, and his pedigree name, that is all. I would love to have the names of his grandparents etc. I do not have any contact details for the breeder, other than his name. I know what town the breeder lived in but not the actual address.

After contacting the kennel club they have finally told me that I can apply for a new certificate at a cost of 25 Euros for a 3 generation certificate or 32 for a 4 generation one. I don't see why I should have to pay for a certificate that I should already have been given.

Who was responsible for sending me the pedigree certificate all those years ago? The kennel club or the breeder?

The breeder should have supplied you with a full pedigree wether that be a 4 gen or 5(I always supply 5). Personally I dont like the way the KC one is set out & its confusing, also very expensive. I print my own(used to be handwritten years ago) on lovely card at a fraction of the cost.
You will always have to pay for anything Kennel Club wise!!

If you have the dogs registered name and he is in your name with the KC they will supply a pedigree, last time I got one it was £6, I presume the IKC does the same.

It was usual for a breeder to supply a pedigree, in the past hand written, these days most would do them on their computer.  I always do my own as I like to include hip scores etc, which the KC ones don't, and they are expensive for what they are.

The kennel club (and I assume IKC also) will provide one from their records at a price.

Certainly I would expect to receive a pedigree from the breeder, but this is not compulsory, more a matter of form, the registration certificate is prove of the dog being purebred and registered.

I have to say I much prefer what they do in many FCI countries where the registration certificate incorporates a pedigree (usually 3 or four generations). 

There is certainly enough blank space on our KC certificates to do this.

> the KC they will supply a pedigree

The OP can buy one, but they are rather expensive at 25+ Euro's

Who was responsible for sending me the pedigree certificate all those years ago? The kennel club or the breeder?

You haven't been cheated by your previous breeder, they do not have to supply you with a pedigree only the KC transfer of ownership to prove that the pup is a KC pup. I'm sure there will be breeders today who do not supply a pedigree, especially pet breeders.

When you buy a pup you get the KC transfer of ownership certificate which you then have to send off with payment to transfer it over to your name there is also a box to tick for a KC pedigree if you wish to also purchase this, it is not down to the breeder to supply one for you.

Although most of us do supply a pedigree either made by ourselves or as I do I always pre-order a pedigree from the KC when registering the litter, it is something that we choose to do, not something that a breeder has to do, so your comment "I don't see why I should have to pay for a certificate that I should already have been given." is not so, the breeder did nothing wrong, but it is much more proffessional to have one already there.......

As most of us home our pups to at least a few people in the breed who need to know the pedigree we always have them ready, for myself I also like my puppy owners to know the lines their pups are from, alas a lot of pet breeders who also sell to pet homes are not so bothered and the option to buy one from the KC is always there if the new owner wants one, but no the breeder did not have to supply you with one all those years ago. :-)

Thanks very much for all the information, its been very helpful. I was just curious about his lines.

I must be a pest then - ask for the pedigree for the dam and sire before I put my name down for a puppy - is this strange, no one has ever questioned it.

If you enjoyed looking at the ancestry of the new dog, try Googling the parents' names of the older dog. You may find there is a breed database where you can trace back all the dogs that would have been on the original pedigree, and there's nothing to stop you filling them in on a blank form for your own interest.

I must be a pest then - ask for the pedigree for the dam and sire before I put my name down for a puppy - is this strange, no one has ever questioned it.

:-D No it's not strange, I also expect it as a matter of fact to see a pedigree, most of us do and if we are buying from a good breeder it is always there to see and we always get one with our pup. My point is it is not a must it has never been part of the KC's marketing that a breeder has to supply a pedigree as they will sell one to new owners if they wish.

You'd be hard pushed today to find a breeder who does not supply a pedigree but I dare say some will not.

The KC has just announced they are introducing a new service for everyone with a KC registered dog, called MyKC.  Part of the news release from today says:
The Kennel Club's extensive pedigree database is available to view for any registered dog, and owners can look up the registration details throughout their dog's heritage, such as the parents and siblings. Breeders can see details of their current dogs and their breeding, plus have the ability to add notes to dogs now living with their new owners, helping breeders and owners to stay in touch.

Sounds similar to what the GCCF now does. When I log into my account with them I can see all my cats registered with them, all the cats I've ever bred, and the pedigree plus show results and breeding history of them all.

> The KC has just announced they are introducing a new service for everyone with a KC registered dog, called MyKC.

Does that include the Activity Register?

I would guess so, if I search on the health test database for my first 2 dogs (they were on the activity register) then their names and breeds appear, they were registered in 1991 and 1996 so it appears they're adding lots of old information.

Does that include the Activity Register?

It doesn't say. http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/4823/23/5/3

This is the best advice offered here, if you can find information online free then if not the only way to get a pedigree is either through the breeder or the IKC for 25 euro. Your question asked, who is responsible for giving you a pedigree certificate? Answer is the breeder.  IKC issues the registration papers to the breeder on registering the pups, you then change it into your name.  Perhaps it was an oversight on the breeders behalf, simply forgotten to be put into your pack and if you didn't notice or challenge then they may not know it was forgotten about.

Please note that most advice being given here is in relation to the UK KC which is vastly different from the IRISH KC and does not apply.

If the breeder deliberately did not give you a pedigree in the first place they are hardly likely to offer any help at this stage so I would say that to google the name of your dog is your first move, check their affix online for similar breeding or speak to people in the breed.  Or simply bite the bullet and pay the IKC 25 euro which seems extortionate but hey it's the IKC we're talking about here everything they do is expensive!

> I must be a pest then - ask for the pedigree for the dam and sire before I put my name down for a puppy - is this strange, no one has ever questioned it.

No of course not. Personally I wouldn't dream of buying in a pup unless I knew what was behind it, and whether it was what I wanted to complement my breeding. But to be honest, I doubt if I would approach someone without having identified what the pups' breeding was first.

Of course that's usually easier when you've had a breed for a while so probably wouldn't apply to somene just starting out in a breed.