My GSD boy is really unwell and has a fever. Came on suddenly last Sunday after his walk. He is very hangdog, lethargic, disinterested. Somewhat roached, hunched. Looks uncomfortable. Went to vet. Temp 39.9. Gave anti inflamm inj + antibiotics. Couldn't find anything obvious wrong No better by the end of the day, went back temp up to 40. Still eating OK. Back to vet again 12 hrs later as still no better. This dog is so exuberant normally and he didn't even look up when I came in from work. Another injection, did blood test. Blood test didn't show any abnormalities. Not pooing as often as normal, but no diahorrea. Eating OK. Trudging on walk. Very slight cough occasionally. Eyes a little bit watery one day.  Temp still 40. Asked for a referral to a specialist centre. Took him there Tues and they kept him there for tests. He has had a neuro exam, ultrasound, chest and spine x rays and they have sent off a faecal sample.  So far baffled.  Xrays and ultrasound unremarkable. Temperature went down yesterday and I brought him home, with me to continue monitoring temp and how he is in himself. Temp has gone back up, and today has been fluctuating latest was 40.2.  Demeanor is still miserable. Have spoken to them again and will take him back again for a lungwash and maybe further xrays on Monday, as he has been coughing more today. They don't do testing over the weekend, so I might as well monitor him here, and I will take his temp every few hours. In the event that he takes a turn for the worse I can take him back there any time over the weekend and they will call his consultant.  He is not giving many clues as to what is wrong. I asked her as an outside chance about Lepto and Lungworm and they have been ruled out.

If anyone has any ideas I would be really grateful, I am so depressed, I thought that we would be making some headway but even the specialists referral centre don't have any ideas.

BTW no vomiting.

HELP.

Have no advice to offer you as vets have already done all the tests I would have suggested to you but did not want to read and run. I will keep fingers crossed you lad picks up soon.

Thanks anyway Roscoebabe

Would recommend strong treatment for lungworm, not sure why they have ruled it out as it doesn't present in standard way. In the south they nearly always treat this before any operations due to the bleeding issues caused by it.

Fingers crossed, which area are you? There is a nasty un identified illness in the New Forest area, but that starts with a cut after walking

No advice, just a cyber ((((((( hug)))))), I've had a dog with a mystery illness too and I know how worrying and frustrating it is.

I have 2 dogs with Auto Immune Disease, 1 had Polyarthritis, 1 had Steroid Responsive Meningitis.  Both had symptoms similar to your dog.  Both had joint taps and 1 had a spinal tap to diagnose the problem, they were also tested for Lymes Disease.
Google CIMDA for more info on AI diseases
Hope you get some answers soon

Not going to be much help I don't think but with the bloods do you know what they tested for? Any poisoning tests completed?

Poor boy I hope they get find put what the problem is.

Thanks everyone. His temp has come down to 39.5 this morning. I got up and took it at 4am(39.9)  as well to make sure I wasn't missing any crisis!

Pieandivory:  His symptoms sound very, very much like polyarthritis. His consultant has mentioned doing joint fluid and csf (did I mention that? brain overload in progress), but says she's not convinced that this is where the problem lies.  Maybe because he exhibits no joint pain or abnormality on examination....but he does walk 'on eggshells' and looks so awkward and stiff legged for a dog that normally just 'flows' over the landscape.  I was a bit worried about the taps, about invading an essentially 'closed system'. I guess a bit worried about introducing a problem (I am probably thinking about the NHS LOL). But I am now thinking that if we don't find anything else this should be done, the symptoms are spot on.  The only single thing that doesn't match is this little cough he has. I will be asking her about polyarthritis Monday am.

Re the lungworm, I am in the south, in Kent. She did say why it wasn't lungworm, certain things not found in bloods, faecal etc that would suggest it?  I have advocate here, but am reluctant to use it while he is so unwell.

My boy with IMPA went to bed fine and by the the next morning was very obviously not right.
He was eating fine but standing hunched and unwilling to move much or lay down.  He didn't have swollen joints at this point although apparently they did swell later whilst he was at the specialists.
He too had various x rays and blood tests.
We were warned about risks regarding joint taps but a year on have seen no problems, he is nearly 10 now and was a bit arthritic before his illness but hasn't got any worse.
Hope you get some answers soon

pieandivory
Was your boy running a fever? My boy spends most of his time laying down at the moment, but when he gets up he is stiff and uncomfortable. It is so unlike him, he is usually a firecracker. Did the one with polyarthritis have just the joint tap or a csf too? How long was it before any swelling developed?

It's his 8th birthday today, and I feel so sorry for him.

Lungworm doesn't always show up on the tests...

Hope you get some answers soon ChinaBlue x

I have no advice I'm afraid, so am just sending my best wishes for your boy, such a worry!  I hope you soon know what is going on here, sending your boy a massive hug and thinking of him. x

Hi, yes he had temp of 40 plus, don't remember the exact temp.
He just had the joint taps, in 8 joints I think
He was admitted to the specialist on the first day that I saw he was ill as my own vet didn't know what was up with him (it was a Sunday). Unfortunately my own vet had given him a jab which meant the specialist had to wait 48 hrs to do the joint taps as he was worried whatever my own vet had given him may mask any problems.  His joints swelled within that 2 days but I'm not sure exactly when.
Sorry I'm a bit hazy on details, I had 2 at 2 different specialists both with AI disease at the same time and details of each are a bit hazy
Happy Birthday to your boy, hope he is feeling better soon x

My 2 yr old has IMPA too.  She presented very similar to your boy and was being treated for infections.  Her joints don't swell and as such were not very painful in the begining.  She was just finding it hard to get up after resting.  Then she started with indescriminate limping(swapping legs, etc) and my vet started treating for Polyarthritis.  And she is responding well to treatment.

My first though was Lyme disease with your dog.  Very similar in symptoms.

Thank you all so much. I insisted on referring to a specialist centre quickly, and yet here we are it will be a week tomorrow and we are nowhere. Cracar.....did your 2yr old have joint taps to diagnose, or did they just start treating for polyarthritis based on the symptoms?   I am a bit concerned about having joint fluid taken, and wonder if it is absolutely necessary.  His temp is back up to 40.4 this afternoon. It is fluctuating like this most of the time.  I think I looked up Lyme disease (deer tick?) but the polyarthritis seems so spot on. In her list of possibles at our initial consultation Immune related disease was on the list.  I was sitting thinking about this just now, and apart from when I encourage him out to the loo, and take him out for a little walk in the morniing, he is not getting up at all (oh and to eat his meals which takes 2 minutes). The rest of the time he is just laying down. He switches position/location occasionally and that's it.   As things stand at the moment he isn't being 'treated' for anything, so nothing is changing.

Thank you all so much....

Just had a good read about Lyme disease. Also sounds quite similar, though he has no loss of appetite. Will raise this with her too on Monday. The only other thing with that is it says that antibiotics would normally clear it up  in 3 - 5 days, and he has been on antibiotics for 6 days now with no change at all. It could be the wrong type of AB though.  This one worries me because of kidney damage.

Have a lot of the joints swollen up on your dog?
Can I suggest you ask the specialist about metallic poisoning.

Phostoxin poisoning maybe worth looking at, symptoms sound similar to our dog... If you do a search on it I did a couple of posts on here a few years back now. I hope it's not but worth putting forward.
Do you know if any farmers or the like have been trying to cut down on rabbits? Golf courses also use this too.

No, none of his joints appear swollen, but he is walking as though (especially in the front) his legs really hurt now.

I will look up phostoxin poisoning, There is a farm opposite to where we walked him on Sunday, but we don't come into direct contact with it at all, as it is the other side of a major road. They usuallly shoot rabbits. No golf course.

Also I have another dog and she is unaffected.

Thank you all, all ideas still welcome. He is still no better. Temp still fluctuating. 40.5 this morning.

Are his eyes clear ?

LJS - Yes. He has had slightly watery eyes a couple of times, not mucky, just watery, but his eyes are absolutely fine now. BTW temp was 39.8 at 4am, but up to 40.5 at 8am.

Basically if the poison hasn't been put down correctly then it can affect beyond the boundary, also any affected rabbits can carry it.

Really hope you find the reasoning behind this and can sort ASAP x

Sorry, Chinablue
.  I didn't want to do joint taps and my vet did agree with me.  We started treating with steroids and she improved straight away.  This is usually enough to diagnose IMPA.  Get your vet to stop the AB's if they are not working and start him on a Immune suppresent dose of Prednisolone.  If it works, it's usually right away and if it doesn't, you can scratch it off the list and just stop the steroids.
The Website CIMDA is fantastic and you can work out what dose your dog should be on at first.  Normally, if a vet hasn't dealt with immune problems before, they start the dog on far to low a dose so it doesn't work.  That's where my vet went wrong at first.  CIMDA showed me the correct dose.

They are going to do joint taps, but not spinal tap. We did discuss doing without but they are also looking at SLE (and esp affects GSDs) which is similar to IMPA and need to differentiate. The fact he is late middle age GSD and IMPA usually affects younger dogs is also in the mix, though not impossible still to be type 1 IMPA, but she also feels it might be the other types ii-iv, and would need to find underlying cause. He has this cough too, so further x rays and lung wash to be undertaken. He does have some swelling to some joints now too, and is very clearly shifting from foot to foot with discomfort when he is standing. Also doing a heart scan (though chest xrays were OK, and no murmur detected today) and may look down throat with a camera, due to this cough.

He will be staying there overnight.

Sending positive thoughts your way x

Thank you Harley and everyone. He sure has everyone rooting for him :)

More positive thoughts from me too. It's so sad that there are so many illnesses our wonderful GSDs are prone to.

So, we have a diagnosis and it is SLE. I was hoping for a straightforward polyarthritis as odd as that sounds, as SLE is more serious, although the vet is very positive that the other 'systems' affected are minor, and we have managed to diagnose it really early.  So the treatment is the same, immunosuppressants, and hoping for a remission.  SLE is apparently quite rare too.

Zan, yes it is depressing and these days there are a whole range of things I would half expect a GSD to get, but I didn't see this one coming. I can only hope that we get a positive result and that we can achieve remission and he can live the rest of his life with the joy and abandon that he has lived it with so far. It is unthinkable that it should be otherwise for such a free spirit.  From what she said to me earlier he is already starting to feel better, and I will collect him later today. Just want my boy back.

Great news that you can collect your boy later today x I know what a relief it is to get them back home. At least you know what you are dealing with now and hopefully the treatment will work well for him x

I had a GSD who presented with autoimmune disease ( though not SLA) at the age of 8. Prednisilone worked for her and we eventually got her down to a very low maintenance dose, though she was on quite a high one to start with. She lived to be 14 and a half, the oldest GSD I have ever had, right back to her normal self with a great quality of life and eventually was pts for an unrelated old age condition. I hope your boy does as well as she did.

My whippet was diagnosed with SLE, initially polyarthritis but then Lupus when his kidneys and skin became involved. It was a hard road getting his steroids right as the ideal is to very slowly wean them off. For him however it was impossible to get him steroid free. He would relapse and we had to start over with higher dose and try again.

We added Azathropine to try and support him whilst we removed the steroids ..but no go

He also had Fortekor for the kidneys

He did however have 5 happy years after diagnosis at age 5. He was well during that time and charged about rabbiting with the others...I still miss him dear Benny

I was advised by knowledgable AI disease experts to never give Boosters, to keep any other treatments like wormers to a minimum. ie have a fecal sample tested and only worm if necessary. No flea treatments

He was on a raw food diet and rain water to drink so his kidneys didnt have to work too hard to filter chemicals

On high dose steroids which he will have in the beginning your Vet should give a Gastroprotectant such as Zantac, steroids are hard on the stomach and Liver.
Milk Thistle or a product called samE is recommended to support Liver function when on high dose steroids.   The samE can be bought from Vets or online http://www.healthypets.com/sadenosyl100.html

Milk Thistle from health shops....I would use the sam E when he is on a high dose and then as its reduced go for the Milk Thistle...its cheaper

Hope this helps and your boy has many happy years with you 

     

jayp2008
Thanks for this, my boy has been prescribed pred and Azathropine. The specialist has suggested that we screen (bloods I think) every 3 months to monitor for kidney and liver function, as it wouldn't be apparent if a flare up happened in these organs. Any other 'illnesses' that may occur may be considered a potential effect of the SLE, although it might not be. But as she pointed out, we can't go back and fix kidney/liver damage, whereas other illnesses may be more evident and we can pick up the fact that there is a possible flare up going on. At the moment we know that all organs are functioning well, as he has had pretty much everything tested!  It is reassuring to know that you had your boy for such a significant period of time, even with this disease, and even though he didn't go into remission, but you were able to manage it.

My boy is and always has been on a raw diet anyway.  I use milk thistle for my girl who is on Metacam, so I will get him on that, but will get SamE to start with. My vet didn't prescribe a gastroprotectant, so I will pick that up with her when I talk to her today. She wants to see us again in 10 days - 2 weeks.

Thank you for this, I found it helpful and reassuring.  I had a GSD years ago with AF and she was on immunosuppressants, and I never vaccinated her for the same reasons.

Zan, GSDs don't have great immune systems, as I said above, my girl years ago had AF, which we managed to get into remission, but only after using Cyclosporin for about 6 months. Again, very reassuring though, and I really do hope that he will be a miracle boy.  14 and a half is an amazing age for any GSD and is pretty much unheard of now. If he made that I would be over the moon! I will just settle for getting this under control.  Thank you all.

Heres hoping all goes well for you both for a long time

Im always a bit surprised at Vets not giving a Gastroprotectant , it does no harm and may just help with side effects

My boy developed skin lesions, starting on his ears and feet , they didnt itch but just had to make sure no infections started  up

In the end it was Demodex that couldnt be controlled along with worsening kidneys that meant I could do no more for him
The steroids mean the body cannot control the Demodex mites and as we couldnt get him off them without making him ill again we had come to the end of the road.

He really did have a good life and im sure your boy could do even better, especially as you already do all the things that can help
Jan xx

Thank you so much Jan.
He is feeling so much brighter even with just the two steroid injections that he has had, (one Monday night and one last night just before I collected him). He went out into the garden through his dog door, of his own volition when I got him home, which he hasn't done since he became ill. Such a small thing, but it meant such a lot :)  The vet thinks he will feel almost back to normal by the end of the week or so. Hoping that's the case.

Can't thank everyone enough for getting us on track with this.

What a relief for you, re organ damage due to the medication, I've taken immunosuppressants myself for the past twenty years with no ill effects, I use a liquid B12 supplement to support my liver, which can also be used on animals.

Chinablue, we are still at the very beginning of our journey with AI problems.  We are still on quite a high dose but are reducing it slowly.  Check out that Website CIMDA.  Very interesting and might just help.
Best wishes for your boy  x

Celli, thank you.
Cracar, yes I did register on CIMDA, it looks like a very helpful support group. I haven't 'introduced' myself as yet.....been otherwise engaged....but had a read through of the information and will not hesitate to ask for help if I need to.
I hope you too progress well with your AI problems, I saw that you had posted on there.

He is a little brighter still today, and his walking is SO much better. We are going back to see the specialist on Friday 22nd. Hoping that by then he will be more himself....she won't recognise the dog she sees. She was getting 2 people to take him out for loo breaks as he is so 'strong'. He was only firing on about 5% capacity then :) 

I am just happy not to see him in such obvious pain.

Update: He is responding to the steroids and the other drug very well. He can now walk well, and got his voice back yesterday! He has always got really excited and vocal when we are going out for a walk but has been silent since he has been ill. Yesterday he got his voice back. He was showing interest in other dogs when we were out and was moving really comfortably. Getting a little more of him back each day.  I know it's a long term illness, and management all the way, but I am so happy to see him coming back to me.

That's brilliant news :-)

Gosh thats lovely cheerful news ....xx