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Topic Dog Boards / General / Dispatches C4 Monday 11th Mar - Puppy trafficking
- By MsTemeraire Date 04.03.13 21:15 UTC
Just saw a trailer for the above, it's about illegal puppy trafficking from abroad.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 04.03.13 21:18 UTC
My ministry vet neighbour tells me it's a massive problem.
- By pat [gb] Date 11.03.13 14:24 UTC
Just a reminder http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-118/episode-6
- By Celli [gb] Date 11.03.13 18:22 UTC
Odd, I can't see it in the tv listings

Found it
- By Bellamia [it] Date 11.03.13 18:53 UTC
In Italy we have had these imports for years....every pet shop has these pups.They claim they are from Italian breeders and the pedigree will be issued later.The truth is as this link reports...they are mass produced,puppy millers from these non eu countries. The latest import  law revision has tried to clamp down on this illegal smuggling..literally lorry  loads of pups come across uncontrolled borders ,and are sold on to joe public.Little has changed. Many of these pups will die from parvovirus,bronchitis  or distemper.I have met quite a few of these pups in the local park,bought by lovely people who just weren't aware of this problem.They face huge vet bills and sometimes heartbreak.
  I have tried to buy a new puppy this year,after the death of my old girl. Few Italian "reputable" breeders carry out the health testing I expect.T he pet shop and e bay pups are available on the same day you see them,but they are mostly Byb or these illegal imports. I have decided to go as far as Sweden for a wonderful pup.The breeder has extensive health testing.I do feel  I have been penalized by the current backlash on these illegal imports,in that I also have to wait for my pup to be 3 months old to be vaccinated against rabies, and then wait another 3 weeks for  it to be clear to travel. Others  in Germany etc can go to the same breeder and have their pup at 8 weeks of age.In fact my pup is happy in the company of another  destined for the uk who also has to wait out the new rabies law requirements.
IF my small sacrifice helps towards ending this dreadful business of importing unvaccinated pups ,as young as 4 to 5 weeks of age,then it will be worth it.The problem is educating the public here,who seem not to care where the fluffy pup comes from.When they get too big or unruly,they are still dumped into exploding rescues.August,the holiday month here, is when abandonment is in epic proportions.It is beyond the common man...the law needs to stamp on this,but even they are so corrupt that the trade will not be stopped. It is Truely heartbreaking.
- By pat [gb] Date 11.03.13 20:47 UTC
For anyone watching the Dispatches programe be aware the London pet shop was Ardvaark Kennels. A year ago the Newham Council were made aware, Trading Standards and the animal welfare officer too. They said at the time everything was in order. They have failed to make repeated checks on this pet shop, because it is obvious everything is not in order. Puppies sold with incorrect paperwork, passports, and incorrect vaccine regime against rabies. Newham Council should recind the pet shop licence immediately and stop the illegal importation of puppies to this and other outlets supplied by the fools who are placing our dog and human population at risk of rabies.
- By Honeymoonbeam [nl] Date 11.03.13 21:02 UTC
Italy sounds very much like Spain then bellamia.  There it´s quite common to see little puppies alone in tiny glass cages, often without water.  and sometimes they will be there for months if no-one buys them.  It´s heatbreaking.
- By furriefriends Date 11.03.13 22:34 UTC
I watched it almost hiding behimd a cushion.Horrible trade and by the sounds of things getting worse as people find ways round of importing. Something different in importing as livestock which is an advantage to these people. Different rules about travell and documentation Also the way the pups are transported is disgusting 24 hours in  a small crate with others stacked on top of each other with the potential for urine and faeces to fallon the pups from above. 
The whole programme showed a disgusting practice
- By Admin (Administrator) Date 12.03.13 09:01 UTC Edited 12.03.13 09:08 UTC
Dispatches question: "Was it predicted that there would be this large increase in the puppies coming from Eastern Europe"?

Nigel Gibbons - Chief Veternary Officer's  reply " No it was not predicted so now we need to deal with it"

Dispatches question: "Isn't it just simply that the pet passport scheme is open to abuse"?

Mr Gibbons reply: " yeh ... unpredictable things happen"

Staggering.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 12.03.13 09:08 UTC
Coming from parents from and having regular contact with one Eastern European country I could have told them this was guaranteed to happen.

These countries have such economic issues for the average person, that the entrepreneurial spirit is very alive, and people find ways of eking out the meagre salaries and making extra income. 

Most people had allotments, growing extra food, rearing pigs, chickens etc, to make a bit of money or supplement their larder. 

Add to this a traditionally less sentimental and close relationship to companion animals, then earning some money like this causes no guilt.  Add to thsi that all maner of bribery and petty corrunmpion is endemic, these quite ordinary people (not criminal types) would see absolutely no problem with flouting rules.
- By Lorripop [gb] Date 12.03.13 11:10 UTC
One way to stop or decrease the trade is to put more into educating the puppy buyer! If there is more information readily available and tv adverts (instead of stupid car insurance or stupid female products that you have sit and watch with the kids!) then this will eventually get through surely and people won't buy a pup in this way anymore thus making the trade fruitless.
Harrods has to be stopped in selling pups also, they give the message that its correct to buy a pup from a shop without seeing at least the mum.
The kennel club, vets and rescue centres have to do more in helping people with purchasing the right pup from the right breeder. Celebrities should be used in promoting a guide into purchasing a puppy. Paul o Grady - he'd be good. It doesn't just have to be for pedigree pups, any pup that people go and see if they have a markers to look out for then this should help in my opinion.
If I ever get enquiries for pups I always reply despite not having any, I also go into a little advice (rightly or wrongly) on what to look for in a breeder and what to expect from a good one. I also give a price of what a pup should cost so if they find one much cheaper then beware. I also tell they are welcome to email again if they need further help. Obviously this won't get to those who want the 'designer' mixes or those that don't want to be questioned on family life but its a least trying.
I watched the program and felt sad for the pups but it seems not a lot is being done especially when lying about age is an issue.
- By Lily Mc [de] Date 12.03.13 11:16 UTC
What I couldn't understand was how these puppies are getting through when it must be so obvious that the age on the passport is wrong when you look at the puppies? Surely just putting someone on the border control who has a half decent knowledge could raise this issue, and if puppies are then impounded and not returned and/or cost money to return, then the advantage is lost.

The programme seemed to centre on the vaccination being ineffective at that age, which to me is a bit immaterial anyway given that we don't have rabies here YET (can only be a matter of time). The vaccination presumably doesn't cure rabies if the dog had it, so its effectiveness doesn't matter much in some ways as they don't 'need' that effectiveness in the UK.

Was also unsure how the van with ? 45 puppies would come through. Is each puppy still individually checked? They were so young and so packed in. :-(

M.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 12.03.13 11:20 UTC

>What I couldn't understand was how these puppies are getting through when it must be so obvious that the age on the passport is wrong when you look at the puppies?


If they had someone who knew to check the teeth of the puppies (basically if they haven't started losing their baby teeth then they're too young, because those are generally being shed by 16 weeks, the minimum legal age of entry, despite the twit getting his 12 weeks and 3 months muddled) a lot more would be turned back. But there just aren't enough staff to even check each puppy, let alone know what they're looking for.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 12.03.13 19:15 UTC
Mostly the staff don't even see the dogs they give the owner the scanner to scan the dog.  I have no idea how they do a van load????
- By pat [gb] Date 13.03.13 17:50 UTC
The programe researcher missed some very important points which is pity because had they researched adequately before going on air the presenter could have questioned Defra more on this issue.  The presenter had previously stated that there is no legislation in place such as for livestock when transporting puppies (or words to that effect). He was incorrect  there is the Welfare of Transport Order covers the transportation of puppies, dogs and cats when transporting animals as part of an economic activity which the Slovakian transporter was clearly doing.  He even advertises himself on the Internet as an Animal Transporter, yet the way the puppies were transported were not compliant with the legislation.

The second piece of legislation is the Balai regulations which is on Defra web site http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-trade/imports-non-eu/iins/live-animals/iins-other-animals-balai/iin-bllv-5/.  This piece of legislation is applicable to puppy traders and also to anyone involved in bringing rescue dogs into the UK this has been verified by AHVLA Defra as both are classified as an economic activity.

Ardvaark Kennels the pet shop the puppies were taken to under darkness the owner should have informed AHVLA every time he expected a delivery.  Everything should be logged I doubt this has occured either.

It is not rocket science but there is a very serious lack of compliance and failure from beginning to end of any official checking a consignment of puppies travelling by road from Eastern Europe or even rescue dogs from the Irish Republic.

Newham Council who issue the pet shop licence to Ardvaark have failed too by not ensuring every delivery of puppies has everything in order and every puppy is vaccinated at the correct time (which they were not) far too young. That the delivery is logged that the transporter was authorised and so on. It is a shambles from begining to end, it should not be happening. It is time that puppies should only be sold from the breeder the person that bred the litter not travelling from Eastern Europe in the back of a grotty van then waiting until they are 6 to 8 months of age in a pet shop for someone to buy them.    
- By Celli [gb] Date 13.03.13 19:01 UTC
I really cannot fathom why animals are allowed to be sold in pet shops at all.
- By pat [gb] Date 14.03.13 11:13 UTC
They are allowed to be sold in pet shops because at the time of the introduction of the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999 although it was on the agenda and in the consultation for there to be a ban on the sale of puppies from pet shops, there were objections from The Pet Care Trust (now renamed I believe to something else) and the Office of Fair Trading as it would be seen as a restriction of trade it was therefore deleted from proposed Act before it became law in its present form.
- By pat [gb] Date 14.03.13 11:17 UTC
If you wish to object about puppies sold from Ardvaark Kennels then the Manager of Animal Welfare at Newham Council is on leave until Monday but her email address is as follows:-  tina.delaney@newham.gov.uk
- By bowers Date 15.03.13 00:08 UTC
So very sad and only the tip of the iceberg
Topic Dog Boards / General / Dispatches C4 Monday 11th Mar - Puppy trafficking

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