HI just a quick question can a dog qualift for crufts where ccs are on offer in a under graduate class?

Never even heard of under graduate, but no, it is not a qualifying class. It's Minor Puppy, Puppy, Junior, Yearling, Post Graduate, Limit, Open and Veteran that are qualifying classes.

Only if its a class at Crufts itself and they come first.

> Only if its a class at Crufts itself and they come first.

Or if they win under-graduate and then go on to win the CC or reserve CC (therefore gaining a stud book number)

Thanks for the reply its a breed club ch show I've never heard if under graduate before but there is post grad as well so think I will enter that instead then thanks again all

Thanks for the reply its a breed club ch show I've never heard if under graduate before but there is post grad as well so think I will enter that instead then thanks again all

Sorry I'm on my I phone didn't mean to post twice also how do you gain a stud book number is it just by getting a cc or rcc

Undergraduate is one of the lesser-used classes (not even breed clubs seem to hold 'Tyro' classes any more, and 'Debutante' only rarely) but not a Crufts qualifier.

thanks ive never heard of it before but seen it in the schedule so threw me abit but dosent take much lol

I was looking this up last night actually as the national dog show in may for my breed has under graduate classes, never seen it before at a champ show or a breed club show

hi thats where i saw it to and also at a breed club ch show so threw me a bit lol

Under graduate often has entries of 25-30 in my breed at Crufts, very popular class!
But yes, you would have to win it at Crufts last year for it to qualify.

Eek, I won't be putting Lottie in that one next year then - she only qualified by having a really small class. :-)

Does 1st 2nd & 3rd in Sp Puppy or Sp Junior at Crufts where CC's were on offer qualify for Crufts 2014 ???

Can anyone clarify for me please, as the way I read Crufts 2013 schedule it does, but been told by others that doesn't.

From this years qualification notes

Awards as above qualify a dog for entry at Crufts 2013 only if the class in which the award was gained was not made 'Special' in any way, i.e. by age, colour, height, weight, coat, to members of a society, to breeders etc.  An exception is made only in the case of prize winners in Special Puppy, Special Junior and Veteran at Crufts 2012. Wins in sweepstake classes do not qualify, nor do wins in any classes other than those stated above.

So from this a 1st/2nd/3rd in special puppy or special junior do qualify if CCs on offer or for non CC awarded breeds. But of course double check when the kc update the qualification just on the very rare chance they change it which I highly doubt they will.

Thanks malibu, it is the Special that is confusing. 

Someone has now posted on the forum a reply from the Kennel Club that " Prize Winning" relates to 1st Place only, so only 1st Place is SP Puppy & SP Junior qualifies for Crufts 2014.
I wish the KC would make things clear, the way they word things is often so ambigious and open to misinterpretation.

I think you will not find that correct.

I agree with you Brainless, but the person has put up a reply from the KC Events Dept. That stated the above, but it is not how I interpreted the wording of the show schedule.

Just been having a re-read from top to tail with a fine tooth comb and noticed a line i have never noticed before

(2)    If it has won a first prize in any breed class at Crufts 2012.  (NB This is in addition to those dogs which have qualified in classes listed under 2 c (1) above).

And the other quote i mentioned on special used the term prize winners too, but it does say in addition to the above list of normal classes and classes crufts as a champ show as says inc crufts.

So i have now confused myself as you used to be able to enter from a second, I think I gave even entered a veteran this way before.

It seems very silly that a place at what is in effect a champ show doesnt qualify because its crufts but a second in a normal junior a month later does.  Surely to have even made it to crufts and got placed especially in the massively popular breeds is good enough for another go the next year.

So I revise my earlier post and say 1-3 in post grad, limit and open will qualify for crufts
But only 1st in special puppy, special junior and special veteran will qualify plus a first in any other crufts breed class from the way im reading it but it is late and using the term prize winners is a bit too obsure for me.  I would prefer it if they listed the crufts accepted qualifications the same as they do for the normal champ classes to keep confusion to a minimum.

In a nutshell.... 1st to 3rd qualifies. Unless it's special. Unless it's special puppy/junior/veteran at Crufts then it's not classed as special.

It's to stop people qualifying from special classes where e.g. the class is only open to black dogs. At Crufts the only reason the classes are special is because the age is different, hence the dogs still qualify as normal.

This is the reply from the Kennel Club.

Classes that are made "Special" in any way at a championship show do not qualify for Crufts at all. However first place only in "Special" classes at Crufts do qualify for the following year's show.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Kind regards,

Tracey Harris
Events Co-Ordinator

That really doesn't make sense and I am pretty sure I have seen the special Puppy and junior classes listed as those that qualify from 1st to third, as surely a place at Crufts would arguably be harder to get (as all dogs had to qualify) than the same placings at other champ shows.

Anyone still got a Crufts schedule. http://www.crufts.org.uk/crufts-2013-qualification

It would appear the special classes only the firsts qualify, very strange really.

1st place in special classes qualifies which includes working, good citizen etc. Puppy, Junior and Veteran aren't classed as special when it comes to calculating qualifying places hence the comment 'an exception is made in the case of special puppy, junior and veteran at Crufts'. If that sentence wasn't in the schedule then only 1st would qualify.

> 'an exception is made in the case of special puppy, junior and veteran at Crufts'. If that sentence wasn't in the schedule then only 1st would qualify.

I did not see that in the Crufts qualifying rules for 2013 on-lien, where did you find that, as of course it makes much more sense that special puppy and Junior and veteran should qualify from Crufts.

But only Puppy and Junior are Special at Crufts (different ages to normal shows), Veteran is just the normal 7 and above and just called Veteran and not Special Veteran.

Did they remove the 12 age limit then, I didn't enter a veteran this year so didn't notice.

Never heard of an age limit, certainly not been one when I've been showing. A few years ago there was a Malinois dog winning the veteran class at Crufts aged 14. I'd have entered my girl this year had I not retried her due to becoming a bit stiff. It just says 7 and over in the schedule for this year. At other shows "Special Veteran" (seen it at some breed shows) seems to be aged TEN and above.

A few years ago the kennel club decided that dogs over 12 years were ineligible for Crufts, but I don't know when this was dropped.

Here it is: http://www.ourdogs.co.uk/News/2003/July2003/News180703/cruftsopens.htm

thsi refres to qualification for the 2004 Crufts:

"The upper age limit for dogs exhibited in the Special Veteran Class has been removed.  Previously veterans aged 12 or more could not enter this class but a 'loophole' allowed them to enter in the unrestricted Open class."

Lord doesn't time fly!!!!

>A few years ago the kennel club decided that dogs over 12 years were ineligible for Crufts

I remember this too.

In my breed at club championship shows we often have Special Junior Veteran (7-10 years) and Special Senior Veteran (over 10 years). Neither of those is a Crufts qualifier due to being 'Special'.

That explains it -I didn't show at Crufts until as late as 2002 for the first time, so won't have been thinking about veterans then and then it was removed for 2004.

We sometimes have Veteran (over 7) and Vintage (over 10) at our club shows. :-)

Yes, the upper age limit was dropped.  Barbara, you may remember that we got round it one year by showing 12 year-old Dordi in Open instead of Veteran, where she placed in a large and competitive class.  Stupid rule.