Not logged inChampdogs Information Exchange
By suejaw
Date 18.02.13 22:43 UTC
Is she KC registered? Some are fluffy like this and have a semi long coat... Re the muzzle some lines appear to be like this.. Hard to tell really from this photo, you need a full on facial and also a standing photo to get a better idea..
There is now a DNA test which breeders can do for minimal cost to see if their dogs carry the long coat gene..
Hi thanks she isn't kc registered, her oh bought her as a gift. She loves her but wants to know what she will look like when she's older, personally I think a cross breed but I don't know much about rottweiler and Web info seems limited. I think she has added more photos on the link not sure how good they are.
I didn't realise till now there were longhaired rotties. I saw 8 week old dachshund/rottie crosses on the news a few years back and it was clear one parent was a dachsie from the body and they had a rottie head, both parents were bl/tan so they were that colour, this pup could be a mix of any bl/tan breeds.
The fact the previous owner won't give up any info and he is in his 3rd home in 12 weeks there is something fishy going on.
Hmm I agree, she is totally adorable tho and good as gold! But it's not really the point it's the fact that the woman lied about the dog and it's parents and everything really, they paid good money for what they thought was a rotties and God only knows what they'll end up with.she is a great pup my friend obviously loves her but it's not what her oh thought it was by the looks of things
By suejaw
Date 18.02.13 23:14 UTC
Did they buy her from this site? This is the problem with buying non KC registered dog you end up with often a dog not looking like it should. People lie and to be honest a good well bred Rott you would expect to start paying £800, health tested parents, well reared and no advertised on sites like these... This applies to any breed... Not having a pop at your friend but this is what happens to people who don't do their research and just scour the free sites and think ooh cute puppy, all puppies are cute...
Hi, I'm not sure which site they bought her from. Agreed they should have gone to a breeder. It's the not knowing what the cross is that will annoy her because you don't know what you're getting when full grown I guess.
By suejaw
Date 18.02.13 23:26 UTC
There is nothing to say its not a full Rott either. Some may say badly bred, but you don't know that. You could have 2 lovely parents with the same faults and you end up with something which doesn't look quite right. She is only 12 weeks and may grow on to be fine. You need to see her in different positions to say whether she has been crossed, if I were to guess at this stage then probably not from this photo alone.
There are a few breeds that have a rogue longhaired gene that shows up from time to time.... Akitas, Malamutes and others.
I believe I have seen a full Rott with long hair on a Rottweiler rescue site. It doesn't automatically mean it is a cross breed, but without a full registered pedigree (authenticated by KC) there is no way of knowing that.
Long hair is a recessive gene and can pop up unexpectedly from time to time - but those who are dedicated to the breed will know the lines and steer clear. Unfortunately without proper registration papers [and thereby the means to access information on all ancestors] there is no way to prove this is a full Rott, or a cross.
I will try and get some more pictures pictures sent. She just doesn't look rotti to me but I am just going off Google! Maybe crossed with a collie? So suejaw in your opinion just from this pic do you mean you think she is probably not a cross? Sorry it's been a long day!
By Nova
Date 19.02.13 07:38 UTC
she is totally adorable tho and good as goldNot at all sure that I would expect a 12 week old pup to be "good as gold" most would be into everything and either asleep or rushing about.
Is it a Rotti, well could be I suppose but I have never seen one like that but then my experience is limited only seen a few dozen at that sort of age.
Thing is if the pup is fit and she loves it then does it matter to her what breed it is - unless a pup is registered with the KC it could be almost anything there is just no way of knowing.
The shape of that head doesn't look Rottie to me, but I'm no expert and haven't seen many this way. I would expect a fairly short nosed breed to have a much shorter nose at that age though.
If she is 12 weeks in the photo she looks awfully small to me, and the ear set looks a bit high to me.
The big worry about buying a pup this way is not knowing the health status of the parents of course, could be all sorts of problems lurking. Fingers crossed it works out well.
Whatever this dog is purebred or not I hope your friend will keep her she deserves a good home
By suejaw
Date 19.02.13 10:18 UTC
I know of someone who bred from 2 decent dogs, they didn't look at the common faults and they ended up with this very high ear set. The length of the muzzle is a tad long, however again know of well bred dogs from shorter muzzled parents who has a muzzle like this, might all balance out once the skull grows on.
Who knows what this puppy is and your friend proberly won't know until she is fully grown.
As long as she has a good temperament and is in good health that is all which you can hope for!
By Nikita ![[gb]](/images/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
Date 19.02.13 10:28 UTC
She doesn't look like a pedigree Rotti to me, but alas this is what happens when people do not buy a KC registered dog, that is what the registration papers are for proof of lineage and proof of pedigree, you buy a none KC reg dog and you'll never know.
This dog will have to be a 'never know' too, as none of us can ever say what she has in her, unless there at the time of mating.
If your friend truly wanted a Rotti and paid good money then why did they not look up a Rotti breeder?
They will just have to wait and see how she turns out no-one can predict it I'm afraid.
She is very cute though. :-)
By suejaw
Date 19.02.13 11:22 UTC
I've now looked at her photo on daylight and I'm more awake. No her muzzle doesn't look right at all, it's the overall shape not so much length of it. Lack of stop of the forehead too. She is very very tiny for 12 weeks if 100% Rott..
I can't post links to mine as pup as on my phone. Have a look at the pups advertised on this site and you'll soon see a difference x
By tooolz
Date 19.02.13 12:35 UTC
By JeanSW
Date 19.02.13 13:14 UTC
> Long hair is a recessive gene and can pop up unexpectedly from time to time
Happens in Chihuahuas. Two smooths can produce a Chihuahua Long Coat. And the pup can still be registered.
By JeanSW
Date 19.02.13 13:16 UTC
> It's the not knowing what the cross is that will annoy her
It seems a bit daft to be annoyed, it isn't as if a KC reg had been wanted. And, indeed, such a big difference in the cost if a reputable breeder had been approached. It is a bit late in the day to be annoyed. Wasted energy. :-)
It's not just the coat - it's the whole head pattern and ear set that looks completely wrong to me.
It could, of course, be the product of 2 pet 'pedigree' Rotties that themselves bear little resemblance to the breed standard. :(
Just hope that she can be loved as a sweet pet (and neutered later!) whatever her breeding.
Hi thank you for all your replies. Nikita your opi is gorgeous! I only hope my friends dog turns out like her. Was she fluffy as a pup? If so when did her coat become more sleek? I agree her oh should have gone to a breeder, but that won't help them now. The woman concerned advised my friend to return the dog to her, but text my friend this morning saying she cant have her back sell her on! This woman went hell for leather when my friends oh got her saying please don't sell her on bring her back to me if she doesn't fit with your family etc etc I love her so much ec my friend hasn't actually asked for her to go back but did text her to ask about breed and what kind of a x could she be etc and to give the woman a roasting for lying to her, then friend got the text early doors to say she's not interested. Which I think is wrong tbh, she should at least give my friend the details of the breeder she got her from, which she is saying she doesn have. Unfortunately another case of byb. All my friend wants is to see the parents or get some info, so she can determine what she will be like as an adut and get info on hereditary ailments for both breeds. It's not much to ask. Xx
By Nova
Date 19.02.13 13:41 UTC
Really think your friend should settle down to giving this pup a good loving forever home no matter what her breeding, poor little dog 3 months old and 3 owners.
If you friend really wanted a Rottie pup they should have gone to a Rottie breeder and insisted on a KC registered pup, they should have checked on the parents and their pedigrees, once you have the pup you have made the commitment the time for research is before you buy.
This situation is not the pups fault so lets not make her pay for the greed of people.
Agreed I'm sure she will keep, she loves her but I think she has a right to be annoyed regardless. The woman shouldn't have lied to her oh. Kc registered puppies are not all they are cracked up to be either tho, my mother in law bought a pedigree yorkie with kc papers from an assured breeder, 6 months down the line this odd looking, rather large dog was clearly not a full yorkie. Needless to say they reported him to the kennel club but it goes to show unless you were there at the time of breeding god only knows what you are getting.
Kennel Club registration is only one part of the jigsaw. There's far more research to be done if you want to buy a quality puppy of any breed. :)
By Nova
Date 19.02.13 14:27 UTC
I think she has a right to be annoyed regardlessWe may have to differ there I think she should have done her research - and yes you can have a problem with a KC reg dog but although fraud is possible if you have really looked into what you are buying you will not be that easily fooled or mislead. Thing is if the dog is not registered then the vendor can tell the purchaser anything they like as no one can check on it.
As a matter of interest when did your MIL buy this Yorkie and was it from show stock? What action did the KC take and how is the dog now.
Agreed I'm sure she will keep, she loves her but I think she has a right to be annoyed regardless. The woman shouldn't have lied to her oh.I'd be mainly annoyed with the husband -what kind of person buys a live animal as a gift, and then on top of that does not do his research first?
I think my point is more that people shouldn't lie. I myself am a trusting soul and go on face value and what people tell me so I can sort of understand it.
I am seeing my mil at some point tomorrow (she has just left here!) but I will ask her. I think it was last year she bought the dog. She doesn't own him now as she bought him to breed (whole other thread!) and obviously this wasn't going to happen. She had him neutered before sale I know that much. I will report back tomorrow xx
Lol @ goldmali. He was just trying to do a good thing for her and it's not that she minds if she is a cross she just wants to know what with, she loves her as does her oh. Heart over head me thinks! The oh said the house was filthy and rank (alarm bells,) but he just couldn't leave her there! Not the brightest idea but his heart is in the right place even if his head is somewhere else!!
By WestCoast
Date 19.02.13 14:50 UTC
Edited 19.02.13 14:56 UTC
Everything sets off alarm bells! No responsible breeder would sell a puppy for a present and without seeing all the members of the family!
There's only one person who has been foolish here, and that's the person who bought the puppy. :(
If some well meaning person bought a puppy for me I'd tell them to take it straight back..... :(
Your friend now just has to move on and deal with whatever the pup grows into........
By JeanSW
Date 19.02.13 14:55 UTC
> If some well meaning person bought a puppy for me I'd tell them to take it straight back
100% agree - I once was approached by someone who wanted to buy a puppy for her mum as a birthday surprise!
I said no.
That's really interesting - I'd assumed judging by our own breed, that a short nosed breed should have a short nose at that age. I know if a Cavalier had a nose like that at 12 weeks there'd be little or no hope of it ending up with the right shaped head! :-)
Thanks to everyone who gave constructive advice, I was just after an opinion. Don't really need telling her oh has been daft or that they should have gone to a breeder etc, common sense to me, But unfortunately not everyone is clued up and as perfect as some of you evidently are, that was not meant in an argumentative way, but reading some of the threads you would think some people had never made a mistake! We all make mistakes and that's how we learn. I am a little amazed that not many people think the woman selling the dog was in the wrong tho, but you live and learn.
Again thank you to all those who have replied.
All my friend wants is to see the parents or get some info, so she can determine what she will be like as an adut and get info on hereditary ailments for both breeds. It's not much to ask. Xx
It's a lot to ask and near on impossible, so let's say that the pup is Rott x Collie what then? If 6 pups in the litter they may well all look different, as often happens in cross breed litters, they may all grow to different sizes and shapes and all have different temperaments or if unlucky enough different ailments, it's an impossibility with crosses and heinz 57's to know.
Sorry, but no point at all in asking any of these questions all this should be done at the time of purchase too late afterwards and the only thing that ever proves a dogs lineage is that all important KC registration.
Your friend will just have to accept this pup for who she is and love her regardless. No information is available, for now good socialisation and training is the key to rearing a dog of good temperatment :-) The health will be pot luck I'm afraid.
By all means if they really do not want this pup as she is a cross breed then they can re-home her and will have to vet carefully and find her a good home and then source a proper Rotti breeder and pay the price for a pedigree, otherwise they will keep her and not have to worry about it I'm afraid.
By Nikita
Date 19.02.13 22:28 UTC
> Was she fluffy as a pup? If so when did her coat become more sleek?
Oh very much so! Proper little fluffball. This is another 10 weeks shot.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x55/Nikirushka/Dogs/Remy%20Opi%20and%20Tia/Opi/fluffy.jpgIt started to get sensible at around 5 months old I think, but she didn't get her proper adult coat until something like 10 months to a year (she's 10 this year so I'm trying to remember back a fair way!).
You'll have to forgive everyone being upset about how this all came about - we just see so, so many repetitions of people getting pups without doing the research and this sort of situation occurring, it's very frustrating that it still happens. But yes, we have made mistakes - as I said before, I bought Opi as a purebred rottweiler! And she was actually my second mistake - my first puppy (Remy, a dobe, 2.5 months older than Opi) was from an "accidental" litter which I cknow now was so clearly not an accident and should never, ever have been bred. The important thing is to enjoy their pup and learn from the mistake - so if your friend or OH ever buys a puppy again, they should know now to do their research properly beforehand :)
And yes, I do think some blame lies with the seller. Yes, buyers should vote with their feet (well, wallets) as it is demand that fuels supply but that doesn't excuse the sellers from lying.
Could dna testing be an option to determine the parents breed? May be an expensive option but depends how desperately they want to know.
The DNA testing is a farce, test have shown ridiculous results even in dogs with known breed parentage.
> I am a little amazed that not many people think the woman selling the dog was in the wrong tho
I think it's just that it isn't clear from your account that this seller has told lies - this puppy
could be a purebred even if the parents weren't perfect examples - whereas it's more obvious that the buyer has made mistakes.
I don't think people are unsympathetic but there's little point in your friend getting annoyed with the seller if the mistake is hers (or her OH's). We understand that education is the key and there are many of us on here that regularly give advice to prevent others from making these mistakes and you also have access to a large number of good and conscientious breeders who could reassure any buyer of the quality of their puppies and in fact wouldn't allow a puppy to be bought as a present. I know this isn't perhaps what your friends, or you, want to hear at this point but it is worth repeating so that other readers might be alerted to the pitfalls of 'blind buying'
Pure bred or cross breed though only time will tell, but either way she's a cutie and it's great to read they're pleased with her whatever :) Incidentally we have a rescue mongrel and "guess the parents" is a game that has kept us amused for hours over the years!
By Nova
Date 20.02.13 19:53 UTC
I am a little amazed that not many people think the woman selling the dog was in the wrong thoIt is possible that the second owner was only repeating what she had been told, it is also possible that the breeder is unaware that the pup is a cross or a poor example - sorry but it really is up to the purchaser to be aware of the pitfalls and if they want the best then they must buy from the best.
We don't know the status of this pup it may well be the result of breeding between two examples of poorly bred Rotties, a mis-mate, it may be that the unusual look is down to a throw back or it could be a down right fraud but we don't know, the owner does not know and in all probability the breeder does not either.
By Nikita
Date 20.02.13 23:09 UTC
> The DNA testing is a farce, test have shown ridiculous results even in dogs with known breed parentage.
Indeed, complete waste of money and I continue to be amazed that the various companies haven't been shut down for false advertising as they simply cannot provide the service they are offering.
Agree with you Nikita, especially as they say they can't do pure breeds. Whyever not? If they can't identify a pure breed then how can they work out a cross to any degree of accuracy?
I would probaby get a better success rate if I used tarot cards or dowsing. And I'd get a lot of takers around here.
I don't think anyone is slating your friend personally but we only have your/your friends side of the story. As sympathetic as many of us are that they may have been victims of a misdemeanour, it's the same as buying anything, the more research you do, the less likely you are to fall foul of a rip off or con. Buyer beware, there are con artists everywhere!
By Nikita
Date 22.02.13 09:33 UTC
> Agree with you Nikita, especially as they say they can't do pure breeds. Whyever not? If they can't identify a pure breed then how can they work out a cross to any degree of accuracy?
Exactly! It's just a complete load of rot, isn't it? The mind boggles, it really does!
Powered by mwForum 2.29.6 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill
