http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498

Guess we could have saved them the trouble and expense.

Research evidence is always valuable even when you think you know the answers :) 

There are some interesting points raised such as

>Hart said the relationship between neutering and disease-risk remains a complex issue. For example, the increased incidence of joint diseases among early-neutered dogs is likely a combination of the effect of neutering on the young dog's growth plates as well as the increase in weight on the joints that is commonly seen in neutered dogs.

It is also worth noting this study is on early neutering.



The study revealed that, for all five diseases analyzed, the disease rates were significantly higher in both males and females that were neutered either early or late compared with intact (non-neutered) dogs.


The study was not just about early neutering (although it is interesting that they consider neutering after 12 months to be late!)

Very true :)  Stopped reading after the early neutering comments!

Champdogs article about the pro's and cons of neutering also makes interesting reading.

It just confirms this: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

It has strained a few friendships with Australian breeders on jap sptz facebook pages for me as they nueter pups at 8 weeks befre they leave or as they call it they get fixed and I just cant agree with it.

Research evidence is always valuable even when you think you know the answers :-)


Don't think anyone would disagree but this is not exactly new and I know I don't know all the answers Stooge - lived far too long to think I have even scratched the surface.

Well I don't understand your comment then ....... or you don't understand mine.  Not sure which :)

Well I don't understand your comment then ....... or you don't understand mine.  Not sure which :-)

My comment referred to the fact that the subject has been much discussed on here as have been previous research papers on the subject that came to much the same conclusion.

Your comment seemed to me just sarcastic, I did not say I could have saved them the trouble, did I - but, as you say perhaps I did not understand the thoughts behind your comment.

> I did not say I could have saved them the trouble

Ah, perhaps I should have said "Research evidence is always valuable even when we think we know the answers"

You will no doubt say what you please.

Moving back to the topic of neutering affecting a dog's health ..............  I had my Golden spayed at the age of six on my vet's advice.  (She was my first dog as an adult and my first bitch).  Up until that point she had been the picture of health - within six months she was suffering from arthritis and spay incontinence.  My vet told me that spay incontinence isn't all that common!

6 yrs is pretty old to be spaying (not saying too old, just perhaps it's about right).  If you wait any longer, you run the risks of pyometra.  I think I'd want any bitch of mine to be spayed by the age of 8yrs, especially if she hadn't had a litter - since pyo is more common in bitches which haven't had litters.  I'm very anti-early neutering though.

Moving back to the topic of neutering affecting a dog's health

Good idea Alysce, I have had some bad experiences myself, it seems to be wider accepted today that it can and does cause problems in some cases causing healthy dog to become far from fit and other never to develop correctly or to regress.

JMO but I would only ever consider neutering if it has some benefit to the dog or its well being.

At just six years old she was in her prime - I deeply regret having her spayed.

Of course as already said we all have known for years the pro's and cons of neutering at different ages and I agree with the discovery that early neutering could well be the reasoning for H/D and joint problems.

However, I feel the research is floored anyhow, there is no indication of lines that these dogs were chosen from, it does not say that the survey came via dogs of lines with good hip scores etc, so for me the theories have a large red flag waving over them as much as I'd like to agree with them?

The potential orthopaedic problems resulting from neutering was only one of the health issues covered in the study.

At just six years old she was in her prime - I deeply regret having her spayed.

Don't beat yourself up, I can honestly say that over the last 40+ years, I've still as of yet to meet a bitch that has become incontinent after spaying from aged 3 years and upwards, (Obviously it is not rare, but as of yet no-one I know in the dog world has had that problem) so it is very unfortunate, but I agree with rabid, pyo kills as do mammary cancers and I personally would never risk it. :-)

Thanks Carrington, I do remind myself that I did it because I thought it was best for her at the time.  However, seeing the effect that it's had on her over the last six years ........... her quality of life has really suffered despite extra veterinary support/medication etc.

I also have two HWV bitches, mother and daughter - they will not be spayed but I am ultra cautious when it comes to checking them over regularly and i will never underestimate the dangers of pyo.

A closed pyo can be a life-threatening thing, even if you rush the dog to the vets.  And an emergency spay is far less safe than a planned spay, for all kinds of reasons.  Even if you keep a careful eye on dogs, you can't catch a pyo before it happens and avert it - it's either happening or not.  Knowing an 8yo GSP which nearly died from a pyo, I wouldn't want to never spay a bitch.  If you look at the research from Sweden into pyo, it is fairly safe not to spay as late as age 10 yrs - but after that, the risk of pyo increases hugely.  And I wouldn't want to be spaying a dog in old age, either emergency or planned spay - it's not nice to put an old dog through an op like that.  So, after weighing things up, I think the best solution is spaying some time between the ages of 6-8 yrs.

Obviously you can't catch a pyo before it happens :-)  However if you have breeding bitches who therefore are not spayed and have the potential to develop a pyo - keeping a close eye on them and an ultrasound if you're even slightly uneasy is the best you can do in those circumstances.

Lets not forget all the other health issues that need to be considered when choosing to neuter.

> The potential orthopaedic problems resulting from neutering was only one of the health issues covered in the study.

The study also pointed out that the issues are complex.  I think you will never know if spaying was connected to your individual dogs problems and quite honestly, when you consider just how many bitches are spayed without any problems, it seems unlikely to me.
Hopefully, in the future, as more studies are made the picture will become clearer.

Within six months of spaying my Goldie was incontinent of urine and had generalised arthritis (not meaning HD here) - that is highly suggestive of a surgical cause and depletion of her hormones.  Had either or both of these conditions happened years lately I would be less sure of the cause.

It was also very sad to see her confusion when my friends bitch started to put her further down the pack order.  Thankfully that situation adjusted with a little management.

My male Golden Retriever was neutered at 6 months old which was a condition put on his adoption agreement with the rescue centre he came from.  He was 9 weeks old when he came to live with us and I have no idea of his background apart to be told by the rescue that he was KC registered but we weren't allowed to be told which breeder he came from and weren't allowed to receive his registration documents.

I stuck to the 5 minute rule for walking him until he was fully grown and he is kept quite lean - around 30 to 31kg, is well muscled and has a yearly check up at the vet's. He competes regularly at agility and trains a couple of times a week and over the course of a normal week I walk 40-50 miles each week with him - and being off lead for the majority of walks he covers far more miles than I do. My vet always comments on how fit and active he is and at 8 years old this year he looks and acts a lot younger.

I personally think it would be really difficult to make a connection between age of neutering and bone/joint problems as there are so many variables which can affect the state of a dog's joints. Being involved in a high impact activity and with very early neutering along with an unknown background and being of a breed that has a high incidence of hip dysplasia my dog would appear to be a prime candidate for joint problems at an early age - thankfully he is fit and fast and will continue to train and compete for as long as he is happy to do so. I also know entire GR's of a far younger age who appear to be far older than H in both appearance, health and activity level.

Great reply Harley :-) I've had numerous dogs who have been neutered/spayed below 12 months who have had no problems, and some who have come to me entire aged 8 years onwards who had all sorts of problems from mammary tumours to severe arthritis.

Given the rescue will have known whether his parents were hipscored or not and if they were what their scores were - this might have been useful information for you to have - especially since you use him in competitive agility. 

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Given the rescue will have known whether his parents were hipscored or not and if they were what their scores were - this might have been useful information for you to have - especially since you use him in competitive agility.

The rescue - a large well known one - wouldn't give me any details at all. I did ask them to let the breeder know that we now had him but they refused :-( Their attitude was that breeders never care what happens to the pups they have bred and after several requests to them for more details we gave up asking. They had a very negative view of all breeders and I wasn't able to persuade them that not all of them are the same. They seem to have also given us the wrong date of birth for him too - maybe to stop us from tracing his breeder? I was given lots of help from a lady who has extensive breed records from way back when and there were only 2 litters registered for the date we were given and both of those litters were all accounted for.

My vet thought he may have been a week or two older than the date recorded on his vaccination certificate - he was vaccinated by the rescue and not by the people who originally bought him and then decided they couldn't cope with a puppy. I asked the rescue why they didn't return the puppy to the breeder and was told it was because the purchasers had more money than sense and could afford to lose the money.

I don't see why the rescue would have given you a wrong DOB... if they geuninely had all the other details. A birthdate is a birthdate, and the rescue may well have had no idea it could be checked anyway. This is supposing he was KC reg and not mickey mouse. Vets can often give differing opinions on age, they are not puppy specialists, and I hear of many giving an opinion on age which is inaccurate.

This is good to further knoweldge and remove it from the realm of anecdotal.  It continues on from earlier studies by showing that some diseases and ailments are present in dogs in higher numbers than in intact dogs regardless of the age they were neutered at.  Maybe it's not so much a problem for you in the U.K. but many times I've seen it said that the risks of neuter are only with prepubertal.  This study helps to counter that belief.  It would be nice if researches could get together and decide what "early" is.  By one year puberty in a Golden would already have begun so a dog would benefit from at least some testosterone or estrogen in it's system.  As opposed to pre-pubertal which would deprive of all estrogen and most testosterone.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I don't see why the rescue would have given you a wrong DOB... if they geuninely had all the other details.

Yes he was a genuine KC registered dog - the papers were in with all the other documents the rescue held for him but we weren't allowed to look at them other than see them as they were waved in front of us. They were dead against us knowing anything at all about his background and were in fact quite hostile when we asked about it - and we didn't want to make waves as we hadn't picked him up at that time so just let it go. The manager of the centre at the time was very, very anti breeder and didn't believe that there are any reputable breeders of pure bred dogs.

Most of the dates of birth given for rescue dogs are guesswork anyway so changing the date of his birth wouldn't have been a big problem for them. A phone call to his breeder would have taken no time at all but I guess they didn't want to send him back to his breeder and didn't want us to contact them either hence their refusal to give us any details at all.

He is a brilliant dog and I'm not complaining as we walked off with an amazing dog but knowing his background and being able to let his breeder know he was safe and in a new home didn't seem to be a major problem from our point of view but obviously was from theirs.