OK, so continuing on from my previous topic regarding best food, I've decided to do a mix of both.  Meat and kibble. 
1.  To keep costs down
2.  Don't want to worry about my dogs getting enough meat/bone ratio.

But....what is the best kibble?
My lot are on CSJ with terrible results.  LOADS OF POO and flaky, itchy skin.  I'm looking for reviews on a decent kibble.  Preferably not fish based as my GSD hates it.  I would love to hear your good and bad stories of kibble :)

Hi Cracar

I am very happy using Arden Grange.  As I posted on your previous thread, I have also had trouble with CSJ which has not suited my boys at all - they had similar poo results to your dogs i.e. lots of it, much too soft and smelly - but at least they did not get the flaky skin as well!  (A pity it didn't work as I know CSJ suits a lot of people/dogs and customer service was very good, but it was not for us - never mind)

I've tried a number of kibbles but have now settled back with AG.  When I realised the CSJ wasn't going to work I put the boys back on AG and within 24 hours poos had improved dramatically - smaller, firmer and less frequent.  My skinny youngster has quickly gained condition since he's been on it.  I use the Lamb and Rice but have also used the chicken and the salmon in the past, also with good results.  They love it.  A few times a week I add some raw, usually something simple like Prize Choice freeflow minced tripe, or chicken & tripe which they also love, but they tuck into their AG enthusiastically whether it has mince added to it or not.

Choosing kibble is a minefield but AG is, I think, reasonably priced and seems to be a good middle range food without too many nasties in it.  I find it good value in that you don't need to feed large amounts.  It seems to be calorie dense and I like that it does not swell up hugely if you soak it (less filler, perhaps?).  I will be sticking to it as long as my boys are thriving which they are at the moment.  Their coats are shiny and glossy too.  Helpful website and customer service, as well!  Good luck with your research.

I always say the best food is the one you can afford and deal with and that your dogs will eat. Check the label and feed the one nearest to what you believe to be the best affordable answer for you.

When it comes to food, you aint going to get consistent replies from CDers!! My lot were happy with CSJ, no 'loads of poo' or 'flaky, itchy skin'. They were equally happy with AG, they are doing supremely well on Skinners Duck and Rice ... so well I have absolutely no reason to change to cheaper or more expensive food. What suits suits, and don't forget, your dogs cannot read labels :-D

If you're considering looking around for good kibble...

* See if you can get samples first to try before you buy - even if that means buying small bags or persuading friends or family to let you try some of their dog foods.
* Look at how easy it is to get hold of at a competitive price - can you join a breeders club for instance or bulk buy with friends to keep your costs down.
* Invest in some plastic bins for storage - this means you can buy in bulk for best prices but keep it in a garage or shed and not worry about the damp or mice :) 

As you know my dogs are predominantly raw fed but the they'd rate Fish4Dogs and AG Lamb & Rice as their preferred options when eating kibble.  Oh and you can always add salmon oil for your fish hating GSD if you think he needs it.  Both these companies have good breeders clubs but I always found AG cheaper elsewhere as long as I bought 2 bags at a time.

Regarding the meat/bone ratio with raw I find that you generally only have to plan it once.  Do your calculations over a weeks worth of food then stick to a system that suits you.  I combine tripe, minced meat, offal, and mince with a high bone content in batches to feed between my 3 dogs.  I know that if I then add at least one bony meal per week and one fish meal per week then I have them pretty well balanced.  It also means that I don't have to think about it on a daily basis...

I don't know where you are, but we buy in Healthy Options gluten free mixer biscuit. Healthy Options is a supplier and this is their own brand, but it seems very good--their skin and coats are about as good as they can be if I say so myself :-). I think their chicken and rice kibble is around £35 for 15kg. They have a few stores across the Leeds/Bradford/Colne end of the Pennines. My lot get a bit of this twice a day with the usual meat, fish, offal, bone, veg and a bit of fruit with yoghurt.

Try to make sure the 1st 3-4 ingredients are meat.

Dehydrated Kibble: DNA, K9 Natural, CaniSource, Grandma Lucy Pureformance & The Honest kitchen

Kibble:  Back To basics, Natures Logic, Wysong, Wysong Epigen,Taste of The Wild, Addiction, Fromm

I have fed all these to my dogs, I alternated each time I needed a new bag and the ingredients are very good- with
meat being the first couple ingredients on the list before any thing else. Not sure if you can get that food there or
not- but def a good kibble. I do have my dogs on Raw now- No detox when I switched them and I think its because of the kibble I had them on.
But our ferrets are still on Kibble- I feed them the Epigen & Wyson Nurture Free Range Pheasant cause I need a very high meat
plus I also give them DNA and K9 Natural green Lamb tripe.

In the end it comes down to what works best for your crew and your pocket :-)

Since I am on just raw my dogs get just a meat (deer, beef or pork) for breakfast and supper is chicken with bone (chicken legs, breast, wings) or deer rib
On the weekend I give them their fish for one supper meal and tripe for a breakfast meal, also heart or gizzard as a breakfast meal. I always add their liver/kidney in with supper meal.

I've tried most over the years, (well.. my dogs have) JWB, AG, PDG, RC,.... all the ones that are promoted at shows, moved to France last year when they were on RC, but it is sooo expensive out here, e60 for 15kg, and the RC factory is only 5 miles from me! I changed to Skinners Lamb and Rice and its fantastic. Dogs love it and for the first time in 10yrs my bitch doesn't have tear stains, all pink fur has cleared up, they are sparkly white. No digestive upsets, coats are fantastic. cant rate it highly enough. i went on the site www.whichdogfood.co.uk/ the other day and surprised to find it recommended the very same. Its a great site, lists all the good and nasties in each food. The Duck is supposed to be good as well, but happy with what we have.

I'm an Orijen fan, tried pretty much all of the "no grain " brands and it has consistintly been the best, both in keeping my dogs in condition, quality poo , and most importantly, liked by the dogs. I had been using Orijen before I switched to raw and honestly couldn't tell the difference in my dogs condition, I'm now back on Orijen as my one remaining dog went off raw.
It is expensive, but worth it for me.

The UK doesn't have the same dry foods - I don't recognise most of those names!

I mix feed raw (about 80% usually, although waiting on an order so right now its 0%) with kibble. I rotate between Acana, Orijen and will be trying Simpsons 80/20.
That said, I tried my lot on the Salmon version of a food that is retailing cheaper, and they inhaled it. From memory the ingredients were ok :)

Edit
The food was from Moorlands :)
Edit again (!)
This is the ingredients for their chicken version, the salmon one doesn't have rice in it
http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa436/michala100/Snapbucket/2AA57764.jpg

I agree with the vote for Orijen.  However, I'm now trying Eden - the UK equivalent, still 80:20. 

I've been feeding CSJ Champ for years, I hadn't intended to feed it, I was after That'll do, but the supplier had run out and we got it as a stop gap, but they did so well on it we kept it up.   However in the last year I think the formula has changed and over the last 6 months my dogs are not looking as good.    They lost weight, their coats aren't as good, teeth which were white now need scaling and their breath isn't sweet any more.  Two now have red staining around their mouths and I'm picking up twice as much poo :-(

I've recently changed to just meat and the cheapest plainest biscuit I can find and already they are putting on weight.  I'm also picking up less poo.  I'm hoping the rest will follow, but coats take time.

I'd feed raw, but there's no friendly butcher here to get bones and chicken carcasses and I haven't room for another freezer.

Couldn't find the ingredients list from an old bag, I usually save them for comparison, but found a list of the 2008 ingredients here
My dogs were really good on this.

Which can be compared with the current ingredients list here,    

But this doesn't suit them at all :-(

It's not just the lower meat content, I started adding a little extra meat to compensate about 4 months ago.   The new reciper looks as though it ought to be better, apart from a lower meat content, yet my dog's condition says otherwise :-(

Now no idea what to feed them long term :-(

Thanks Dill.  I found the same with CSJ.  Yellowing teeth and brown staining round my cockers mouth.  Loads of poo!!! And I mean Loads!! Smelly, flakey skin and just general lack of condition. I bought a bag of burns as my 'mixer' should I need it but I have been feeding raw using Dundee pet foods for the last 2 weeks and I must say, I am mighty impressed! And I haven't touched the Burns yet!lol  Allready, the coat has improved drastically and I've had to cut down on amounts of meat as they are piling on the weight!  Teeth are looking better too but could still do with a scraping(which I'll do soon).  The overall coat and smell is 1,000,000 times better!!
I do think each to their own but my lot are LOVING mealtimes again and that's all I need.  Might be a bit of hassle round holidays and stuff but it's worth it!

PS  I bought a tiny under counter freezer and use some drawers of our house freezer too(Don't tell OH!!lol).  This is enough for a months supply but tbh, I think I've just buy chicken legs/wings at tescos weekly as the bones are a pain to store in the freezer and my weird lot don't like the pheasant legs!!lol

I must admit, I'm so disappointed after the dogs doing so well on it for so long, for them to change it and the dogs look so bad there must be quite a difference :-(    for the first time in years I'm having to scale teeth, and clean ears.

I really have no room for a freezer, no matter how small, there would be nowhere to put it.   :-(

I've mentioned this on another similar thread that's running at the moment, but why not have a look at Eden, it's a new 80:20 kibble made in the UK.  I started feeding this when it was launched in September last year. My dogs are doing great on it and have lovely shiny coats and good poos.  No rubbish in it, their website explains it better, have a look www.edenpetfoods.com 

I agree, mine are on Eden too. 

Well, my lot have been on Tesco Every Day Dog mixer and soaked dried Beef, or Pilchards, for the past 10 days and what a difference already!

Breath is sweeter, the itchy one is no longer itching, ears are improving, the oldest one had a weepy eye which has now dried up, they are LOVING dinner again and there's only a third of the poo!!!      A third !!     It's unbelievable the difference already.

I was a bit dubious about the mixer, but looking at the more expensive ones, most have maize as either the first or second ingredient and I'm sure it's the maize causing the itching and mucky ears.  So we took a chance on it.    I may still change the mixer, but will keep with the dried beef as they love it.   I do have to pick out the odd bone, but that's not a problem :-)

> will keep with the dried beef

are you talking about 'greaves'?

I used to buy this years ago as a treat.

It may be the same Brainless, but there seem to be different grades, some with more protein and less fat, and some with more fat to protein.   I've made sure that it's the former ;-)   I've often used it as treats, my lot love it dry.  Using it as the meals I soak it in hot but not boiling water with a pinch of rosemary or thyme and a small pinch of garlic, OH said he'd eat it as it smells good :-)

My father fed our Corgi on it after the local abbatoir closed and he couldn't get lights, sheeps heads etc.  And the local fishmonger closed (fish heads, trimmings and sprats)   He didn't trust the new kibble -   he couldn't see how anyone could say what a 'perfectly balanced diet' for a dog was if they didn't know the dog or it's energy/work level and age was, and didn't see the point of buying tins as you couldn't know what you were paying for - he got that right LOL    The Corgi lived to over 18 in great health :-)

Really odd as I moved onto CSJ wheat/gluten free due to costs and the poo's weren't great and my dogs were loosing weight and I couldn't understand why: they've also had different skin issues, maybe the food I don't know:
Anyway I'm back on AG as I've never had any issues with it before and my dogs were raised on it.
Acana and Orijen I'd also look at, both I've fed but the costs mount up pretty quickly!
I know that Applaws has good content too.

Ill have a look at Eden too ~ however I'm really
Content with AG if I'm honest and wonder why I keep changing, probably cost but its the best price for what works for my dogs :-)

I have been really pleased with JWB grain free  but recently even more pleased with Wainwrights wet food and if we werent on a special diet that can't have much rice in it if any..I would use the Wainwrights kibble too. I have a dog happy and keento eat for the first time in two years and with no diarrhoea, itching or colouring of fur. It's great for putting tablets in too as I just push the tablets in at various intervals in the tray and then cut up the slab accordingly :) Works a treat as the meats so firm and tasty! We need an oatmeal kibble but I haven't found one yet!

Wainwrights do a salmon and potato kibble that's grain free.

Dill, Please  are you allowed to say where you buy your dried meat, as it sound very interesting

Simpsons "Sensitive" range is good. Salmon or lamb and potato, I think there's a chicken one too. I've just splashed out on their 80:20 - gosh it was pricey!

Duck and Potatoe also

I've tried the salmon and the lamb - their coats are better on the salmon. Might try the duck next time

I get a sack from a local farmers and stable suppliers (we're pretty rural here, so plenty of them about ;-) )

But there are online shops that sell the 15 kilo sacks too :-)  the search term is ... dried terrier meat uk  

Hope this helps