I am looking for a DECENT food to feed my lot all the same.  So far, my pup(now 1yr old) has been eating RC junior and doing well and the rest all eat CSJ.  All the dogs are OK on their food but they aren't Loving their dinner and are producing LOADS of poo.  So, I've been looking for something that would suit them all.
Raw diet - I have bought a cheapo freezer and was ready to go but...it's going to cost approx £60 per month.
High quality food - TOTW is £44 per 13kgs.  I would need about a bag and a half per month.
CSJ - I add tripe to the complete making it better quality but doesn't discount the poo problem.

I am at a loss as to what to do??
I wish I'd never seen that website that shows you the score of the food!!! I can't honestly feed them what they've been eating for ages and be OK about it!
I'm thinking...TOTW with some raw/scraps to bulk it out?

I would appreciate thoughts, thanks.

Can't you find a butcher who has offcuts, carcasses and bones to get shot of? It's costing me about £25 per month to feed 12 large dogs and that includes one sack of CSJ. The butcher either charges us a tenner a month to get rid of his extra meat, or he has to pay a LOT more to have it taken away, so it's win-win. I add nothing and one of my dogs has  been eating NOTHING but what the butcher gives us since he was 6 months old, he is now 4 years 4 months. The toydogs and cats I buy from Prize Choice for and it costs me about £250 a month to feed them -40 cats and 8 dogs.

> I am looking for a DECENT food to feed my lot all the same

For me and mine, the answer to that question is RAW.  My dogs are fit, healthy and happy and this diet really suits them.  I reckon that the improved health of one in particular saves me at least three vet visits per year as he can go longer between allergy injections.  Another is having his nail condition almost exclusively managed by his diet and I think is better able to stave off infection.  However the reduction in poo is as good a reason as any to feed this way! :)

I haven't done any cost comparisons for a while but I'm pretty sure that buying well, adding a few scraps, and being careful with weights and portion sizes really helps to keep the costs down.  I do keep some kibble in their diet for my convenience and this needn't be an expensive grain free one as long as you have tolerant dogs.  I use fish 4 dogs to maintain some fish content as mine won't eat raw fish

Have you double checked your raw calculations?

So it will cost you about the same to feed raw as it will TOTW? As goldmali points out you can work on your local contacts to max your budget. I feed 100kg of dog for £10 a week and spend more for variety and sometimes less when we have lots of leftovers from the dinner table.

My thoughts on what to do are just go for raw and give up trying to match it in kibble. Afterall you'll be wasting your freezer otherwise! :-)

Well, I'd only be feeding 1 GSD, a springer and 2 cockers.  Think I must have my calculations wrong?
I can't really ask my butcher again as I used to get food from him which worked out well but when I moved back to kibble(pup and inexperience), I stopped visiting him so I think I've cut off my nose to spite my face.  I may visit again and see how the land lies?

I do want to go back to raw exclusively as one of my cockers has an Auto immune disease and I'm hoping that the good diet will aid recovery.

I know RAW will help the poo and everything but I can't do it if it is going to cost a fortune.  My CSJ is only costing £20 per month but I'm quite willing to double the cost for a better diet.

If you're unsure go 50:50 for a while til you get the hang of the amounts and costs.  Half raw will still be better than none

Hi Cracar.  I sympathise!  I have recently tried to transfer my boys onto CSJ because I know people who feed it very successfully, customer service is excellent and it's really reasonably priced.  Unfortunately, in spite of changing them on to it carefully and gradually it does not suit them.  I found (like you) that they produced huge amounts of poo which was often soft and sometimes very smelly!  Not saying it's a bad food, just that my dogs could not adjust to it (tried a few different kinds).  My youngster, who is really lanky at the moment anyway, began to look thin, so it was no good. 

For various reasons I do not want to feed totally raw, although again I know that many people find it excellent.  I have now gone back to Arden Grange (Lamb and Rice) which I have used previously.  Within 24 hrs poos were smaller, less frequent, firm and not horribly smelly.  (It's so nice to know that CD'ers will understand my obsession with poo!!!)   Youngster is already gaining condition, thank goodness.  I got a very good deal from Zooplus & the dogs love it.  I know it's not top of the range but I do have confidence in the brand and as long as they continue to thrive I will stick with it and keep shopping around for the best prices.  If you haven't tried it before it might be worth a go - but of course what suits one does not suit another!

Good luck with your quest.

Blay 

I have fed Arden Grange, primarily Lamb and Rice for 13 years either exclusiverly, or in conjunction with other food, and any Raw and scraps going.

Dogs always had firm poo, and not huge amounts on it, and kept in good condition.

>(It's so nice to know that CD'ers will understand my obsession with poo!!!)

Oh crikey yes!  :-)  We will talk about the stuff for hours.  I have never been so poo obsessed in my life as I have since meeting fellow "Connoisseurs."

I'd try the raw and see how you go, it may not be as expensive as you think. When I fed raw I had two SBTs and one TM, it only cost me around £30 a month, and that was with buying liver and heart from the butcher on top of daf food, they needed about half the amount I had calculated for.

Where have you looked at for Raw? I can feed 3 BCs for about £70 (including delivery to Jersey) with one company, but with another it is nearly £140
I also keep kibble in as a backup, and was using orijen/acana but am eyeing up simpsons right now which will also reduce costs :)

I'd recommend either Orijen or Eden - the new UK version of Orijen.

Orijen is likely to come in too high for the budget I think, don't know the cost of Eden

Eden is £49/large bag - so more than £44, but not much in it.

I use Raw to Go. From memory (though be warned, I have a rubbish memory!), think I pay about 75p for the 1 lb of feed my one dog has daily. There is delivery, but then it saves me petrol too.

Have just found a super butcher though and bought 10 days of lamb bone feeds for a princely £1.84!

I have 5 medium / large breed dogs, all but one are on Arden Grange and have always been on since pupppies. The oldies are 12 and 13 and doing great on the Senior. I have tried other foods but AG is the best for my dogs so far.
I always top up with chicken or fish or liver plus apples and bananas and whatever else is going plus some tinned food to give some taste :-)

DAF was cheaper than Rawtogo but I have found a great wee meat supplier - Dundee Pet Foods, who are almost the same as DAF but their meats looks FAB! And delivery is only £5.  I am trying to see if he'll deliver down my way but apparently he's doing deliveries down south too.  Honestly, have a look at his page on FB as he has pics of his supplies and they look 1,000,000times better than DAF.

Anyway, The Orijen looks good but I think I'm going to give the simpsons 80/20 a go with Raw added.

I'm thinking...TOTW with some raw/scraps to bulk it out?

You don't want to mix the 2 together Raw & kibble they digest differently- just give a space of time between the two.
I no someone who feeds raw in the morning & kibble at night.
TOW is a good kibble I use to feed that as well as Back to Basics, Natures Logic, CaneSource, & DNA.
Just try & make sure the 1st 3-4 ingredients in the kibble is meat on the list.
I ended up changing to totally raw.

> You don't want to mix the 2 together Raw & kibble they digest differently- just give a space of time between the two.

I've fed raw and kibble in the same meal for years with no problems. IMO the digestion rate thing is just a myth. After all, I'm sure bones digest at a different rate to muscle meat so fail to see that it would cause a problem just because it's kibble.

But technically, is TOTW kibble?  Surely it's the cereals in ordinary kibbles that are harder to digest, causing a longer digestion than meat but if TOTW/Orijen/etc, is mainly meat and veg, surely it would digest at the same rate as ordinary meat?
Just my thoughts...

Anyway, I fed a crappy complete and raw meat combination for years, twice daily and my dogs were all fit and healthy.  In fact, I would rather add a little kibble to bulk out the meat(works out cheaper to feed).
We eat a variety of foods that digest at different rates so why should that be a problem?

All these questions are not meant sarcasticly, I really am asking :)

But technically, is TOTW kibble?  Surely it's the cereals in ordinary kibbles that are harder to digest, causing a longer digestion than meat but if TOTW/Orijen/etc, is mainly meat and veg, surely it would digest at the same rate as ordinary meat?
Just my thoughts...

Anything that comes processed in a bag called dog food is a kibble- its not real food its processed for that has been cooked and rendered.
As for adding more I will just give mine veggies or fruit which they love. Or if they are to skinny just means I am not feeding them enough. Junior was on Kibble basically
for 13yrs & you could see his ribs and his spine. I now feed him 5 ounces of raw twice a day & now you can just feel his ribs.

I found this interesting http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b5_1350848575 Kinda long

All these questions are not meant sarcastically, I really am asking :-) Never took it as :-)

I've fed raw and kibble in the same meal for years with no problems. IMO the digestion rate thing is just a myth. After all, I'm sure bones digest at a different rate to muscle meat so fail to see that it would cause a problem just because it's kibble. I Just was told to have about 6 hrs between the 2-really can't say on that- if it works for you and your crew then that is all that counts :-)

>I've fed raw and kibble in the same meal for years with no problems. IMO the digestion rate thing is just a myth.

I agree with you. Even if it's true it doesn't matter enough to worry about. I think someone once had a theory about it and it was picked up and passed on and now people beieve it to be fact.

I was also told this by Mark Elliott, the homoeopathic vet, some 13 years ago but you have to wonder when dogs would have eaten fur/ears/stomach contents/bones/muscle/fat etc in one sitting?

Completely agree, Marisa!

> I've fed raw and kibble in the same meal for years with no problems. IMO the digestion rate thing is just a myth. After all, I'm sure bones digest at a different rate to muscle meat so fail to see that it would cause a problem just because it's kibble

Ditto :)

I have 6 to feed, 3 bts, 2 cockers and 1 jrt and feed fish4dogs and raw. Those who can tolerate F4dogs get it and the others who dont get Natural Instinct. I also feed chicken wings and other bits and pieces as meal alternatives to keep the cost down. In an ideal world I would love to feed them all raw but IMO I find it too expensive and living in Northern Ireland its hard finding suppliers. Thankfully we now have someone who supplies Natural Instinct as I used to pay £25 delivery from England so that helps.
You just have to work out whats best for your dogs and your pocket.