Ok! iM deadly serious with this,
not the weather not the money or lack of lately not the fact that i can no longer wear nice name branded lothing nor have my nice car( TOTALLY RUINED) A properly cleaned

NOTHING ABSOLUTLY NOTHING drives me ad more than animal and child crueltually!!!

I love my dogs soo much it actually hurts....im currently having to decide on one of my dogs futures and im not kiddes out...im not kidding you its ripping my insides dogs to bits and im all alone.
i have no one to consult with to talk to to cry to...i need help and im dying inside becau the nicest freindliest dog ive EVER known honestly is either going to be made to suffer or made to suffer or DIE....

WHY PLEASE WHY JUST why ......is there anyone who would mind giving me a shoulder here??? i need someone to talk to...no one understands...no one knows the DOG world like you lot.....

There must be someone... i need someone who can advise me and be there for me because shes my first dog and my baby can u be comfort and support,im desperate for the right thing for this  girl...shes an angel and shes in pain but still soo polite...

can i have some support please?

OK. Deep breath first, then tell us about it.

you poor thing,please tell us a little more,someone may be able to help.my dogs are my life too,as i am sure others feel the same,so we will understand,god bless.

Tam

You are not the only dog owner who is alone.  Me too!  And no shoulder to cry on either.  Which is why I needed folk on here recently with a nightmare dog problem.

I knew nobody could take the problem away.  But I did know that they would understand how devastated I was.

You need to be more specific.  Nobody on here can solve your problem for you.  But they can feel for you.  And that helps, believe it or not.

We're all here to listen. Get yourself a nice cup of tea and vent. Venting always helps x

A problem shared is a problem halved, and even if nobody here could give you a suggestion for a solution to your problem (Which I doubt will happen!) then I am sure you will feel better simply for getting it off your chest. :-)

Hope everything is ok, not trying to presume anything but if someone is mad about your new door a couple of days in kennels might give everyone a bit of breathing space?  If it's something else we all care and are here to listen. (((hugs)))

My 6 year old rottie,shes a pain and naughty ect yeah but shes a good girl really shes an angel in temprement ect...

In the past shes had three ops on her ears (both sides one at a time)to help with clearing a re-occuring infection.shes been seen by loads of different vets for the best advise and now shes at queen mothers in harlow,currently booked in to do BOTH ears at once.a total ear canal removal i forget the actual name of the procedure i hear it on the phone talking to the surgeon and shut off,and he hears yes yes yes but im saying no!!

Last year at this time of year too they were seeing her for this procedure and as much as the lady vet pushed me towards it i wasnt ready for that..i knew i wasnt and it mssed me up..so anyway with help and ashove from the vet phoning me at 10pmish that night promised me its for the best..well then the mri scan came back and her ears and inside are calcifying....its awful to look at i have pics if u want to see...

she needs this operation because nothing eles will solve the problem HOWEVER this main vet said to me that this isnt a guarenteed cure!! when she gets a cut on her foot or a bit sniffly or infection somewhere eles it will always effect her ears...(that i dont understand)..

I do not want to leave her in pain,she cant stay on anti inflamitorys nor can she NOT have the op....

My main worry;

when she wakes up she'll be alone and her hearing will be 0%..right now she can hear muffles and we've been doing really good with teaching everyone which tone of voice to speak to her in so she can hear them best...her hearing is like being under water...

so she'll be deaf,now dont most dogs just 'go' deaf gradually? this will be scary as hell for her...i dont want to do that to her...she cant have it explained to her..(i feel sick again this is so hard to try to explain correctly)

so now i have a deaf dog,ok fine but the recovery is soo enourmous and i have 4 kids who are to be fair GREATbut the baby i worry about as bella and her lay together this will have to stop altogeher,not just while she is recovering..bella will never hear the baby coming and turn over for her so this is totally out..
dont get me wrong i trust her but im just not stupid u know how i mean surely??

and i have other dogs,this standard poodle pup will go out in the morning and i think bellas mummy to her cos she will muzzle lick jump on her back and box her in the face and bella just stands the moving her head side to side...she could growl n say sod off but she doesnt...

bac in the summer bella must have been in a deep sleep laying on the patio,the back gate handle was lifted and troy run past treading on a teeny bit of her ear flap(i was sunbathing with the dogs so was lucky enough to see what happened) she jusmped up and bit his back leg ripped his ear and it would have been nasty i think had i not have been in the middle,as i put my hands up standing in front saying bella no baby nooo she stopped and shook off her hair that was standing on end..what would this have been like if she couldnt hear meshe could sort of hear ME calling and looked up,but being deaf id have had to have got IN there....im happy to do this genuinly i am its a bit tougher but theyre my kids sqabbling ect ,but if my son,whos 14 got in there shed NEVER stop!!!

shes all me all over i have do anything with her get her do do anything,but she'll not batter an eye lid for not even matt! he cant even get her to go outside unless i say afterwards come on bella up u get...

so all that said,what if she turns into something not nice?what if shes more miserable then than she is now because shes a moody bitch(not swearing lol) ive got totally happy bitches and this one but then i blame the constant ear ache!!
shes 6 monday whoop whoop birthday celebrations ....well not this year she'll be spending it in a poxy kennel in a vets that she hates all alone...na im soo not happy im stressed out im not eating or sleeping..

how do i concentrate on a very poorly dog when my house is VERY busy,and im hoping soon ill be working so it'll be matthew here in the day..hes so tentative and careing but she WILL growl at him and tell him to go away,but me sticking my head in her cage to lay with her she'd move over!!

honest im scared shes my best freind im losing her and whatever i do is cruel...i cant keep her alive on pain killers its not right
i cant bring myself to put her through this op and risk her turning and i CERTAINLY cant just admit defaet and pts....

there you go guys fix this one cos im done...im still now sitting here typing dead set in my head that shes got the appointment but shes not going!!

im in agony and my dog i suffering,and this is not in anyway about the money...i have her insured and its going to go over my limit so the doggie account will be used....its not money (just incase anyone wondered)

that might have come  acoss a bit wrong...she doe have a moan at matt yes but its not a nasty way,she'll put her head on his lap and have a grumble,rotties talkand i swear thats what it is but thats another thing....am i getting classic signs and ignoring them cos im protecting her?

hard soo hard

It sounds like she has been in awful pain with this so having it sorted once and for all would ease that, which is a good thng.

I've only known one dog who went through the op you're talking about, a cocker who had nasty ear infections for years before the op was done.  He adapted just fine and wasn't upset by being deaf.  But I'd be working now on teaching her hand signals and teaching her to check in on you often so that when her hearing has gone, she is already used to how things are going to be and it won't be a total culture shock for both of you.

But - what has actually been tried so far?  I don't know if she's maybe too late to try Thornit but I'd want to try that first, make sure all avenues have been explored.  What are you feeding her?  That can make a big difference.  My oldie didn't have ears so bad that an op was discussed but they'd been left infected for at least a year and she was mostly deaf, treatment only did so much but thornit sorted it once and for all.  Incidentally I also had to dust her feet and chin, as she was spreading the infection between all three areas so when the ears settled down, she'd scratch her chin then an ear again and start it going again.

And - I'm reading all about coconut oil at the moment and read yesterday about a dog with years' worth of yeast infections all over including his ears, who only finally started to recover when the owner started to use coconut oil.  So maybe something worth looking into?

She knows hand signals! i taught her those as a puppy and use them on all my dogs! i can get a sit down sit stay down stay and wait for hand signals

she'll also do a few spins ect but thats not gonna help lol...

ill literally try anything but if im honest its way past any treatment so im told....
i asked all sorts and dont u worry i grill the vets with EVERY avenue possible and we've tried them all so far!

Shes been having treatments! we've done loads i think its time for this to all stop...just wish i could stop it and know the right way without pulling her about anymore...

(you really think thornit powder might work)

I wouldn't worry too much about her being upset about being deaf or even the recovery period. Dogs bounce back very quickly, they are very adaptable. I'm probably well known on here for telling people NOT to have operations done, in the case of cancer, mammary tumours etc I would much rather see a dog live out what it can of it's life without invasive surgery. However your case sounds very different, your girl is in pain at the moment. I would be quizzing the vets about the long term prognosis, will she be in pain 2 weeks after the op? What is the likelihood of her ears still bothering her afterwards and how often might this happen and I'd use those answers to decide what to do now.

From reading your post there are things I would do to make her feel better if she were mine. I wouldn't leave her at the vets, she would be home with me, in for the morning of the op and home again that afternoon. So I wouldn't worry about her being in a pen at the vets. I also don't use cages at home.

I don't think you need worry about her suddenly having no hearing, it sounds like she hasn't been hearing much for some time so it will be a much smaller adjustment than if her hearing was good to start with. 

In terms of being startled by the other dogs, a lot of the time she will pick up on vibrations as they move around, the same with people.  It could be she reacted so badly to her ear being trodden on because of the pain she has been in over the years not the fact that she was startled, the same with being a bit grumpy, ear pain is really horrible.

It's always hard to make the right decisions for those that can't make them for themselves.  Try to just look at the facts and try to keep your emotions out of it.  She has had pain and hearing loss for some time, she has had minor treatments and she has had minor surgeries, these have not worked.  There is only one treatment left, it will most likely work but the disadvantages will be recovery, no hearing and the adjustments you and she must make in terms of communication.  A big concern you have is change of temperament, is she grumpy now because she is in pain, will she be less grumpy after because the pain is gone?  Lastly, she is 6 years old, if everything goes well she has a lot of pain free years ahead of her and will forget the surgery in the blink of an eye.

It sounds like you have really decided but you just need to make peace with it and be less hard on yourself. She will cope with your decision much better than you cos that's what dogs do.(((hugs)))

She will be in considerable pain for about 10 weeks..she will have drains put in and its not just the op done and shes back out playing in two weeks.the last op took about 6 weeks just to get her to allow me to clean her ears morning and night..its a fight to touch them after,its not nice and this time it'll be both ears she really will be a bear with a sore head.

I have to use a crete as one;she likes it,i have one up for the puppy at the mo as shes jumping on the worksurace when out so for her safety ive creted her, and BELLA will be in it all day as she likes it...its open and shes free to lay in here with us but she chooses the bed instead..
two i have a young puppy and baby i dont want anyone getting hurt and her being blamed as it would be my fault for not preventing any mis haps...

her ears may suffer after the op yes,i am speaking to the vet monday and im still thinking it'll be a chat and ill leave but im going to referesh my mind ect...

what would you suggest then to make her feel better??if she were yours in my situation??

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">will she be less grumpy after because the pain is gone?

Well yes i would think so,i assume the pain is causing her major upset.ive only got to imagine myself in pain with my back or my head when it starts and im horribly grumpy....so im going to say yes she should be a lot happier with no pain...she loves the lake and will be able to go swimming again for the first time in a good few years...

ha haha reminds me of the last time she went lol,men sitting round the fishing lake and she was being a naughty girl at the time running in an out of peoples swims so i put her on a lead...eew lol,embarrassing it was...anyway well clear of the lake i let her off again she turned around INSTANTLY run and i just knew...seconds later i hear men shouting ROOOOTTTIE ROTTIE OH **** rottweiler,and when i gets the all puffed out there she was grinning all over swimming,and ducking in and out of the weeds....ill never forget that...she loves the beach i just want to be able to do these things for her again..if i take away the pain and her hearing she could get her swimming back....

> i asked all sorts and dont u worry i grill the vets with EVERY avenue possible and we've tried them all so far!

Thing is I know from experience that vets will very, very rarely actually know every avenue possible which is why I suggested Thornit and coconut oil - I have yet to hear of any vet suggesting thornit for chronic ear infections despite the fact that it's bloody good stuff for that, they either haven't heard of it or they don't think it will do any good because it isn't as good as conventional medicine (so they think).

A friend of mine has a dog with all sorts of problems, and she has had FAR more success with natural things than she ever did with conventional stuff - so much so that when she managed to shrink a tumour recently, the vet was flabbergasted (and he is into natural things!).

Until I've researched every possible thing for a given condition I don't give in - if I did Remy would be a wreck if not dead by now as he'd still be on soloxine for his thyroid, the conventional treatment but it makes him worse.  As it is he has made a brilliant recovery.  And if he was still here, he'd have been diagnosed with dementia as he has B12 deficiency but again, I've never heard a vet think of that (same as people) - I worked it out myself.

If it is the surgery known as TECA (Total Ear Canal Ablation), my Sussex Spaniel had this done about 3 years ago. Each ear was done a month apart and recovery was good. We've never looked back! No more infections, which she had almost constantly, and she can still hear because they don't remove the ear drum. It just means sounds are more muffled. She often "plays deaf" but that's just how she is. I'm not sure about the 10 week recovery period, or have I read that wrong (?), because Winnie recovered very quickly and certainly didn't have drains in.

If it is the same surgery and you want any more information just let me know.

Nikita, have you tried supplements?  I've heard good things about reversing the effects of dementia with B12 injections in people.  Not entirely but could buy your some time.

I swear by Thornit powder and having spaniels, I go through quite a bit!lol.  My girl was very bothered by ears till I started using that.  No more AB's and ear drops!
My 10 yr old akita was bothered his entire life with ear infections.  Didn't help that he was allready a grumpy git so this made him 100x worse.  I choose not to operate and I'm sure it was a mistake but he had Testicular cancer and CDRM so I chose not to and persever with the drops but his aggression got a lot worse(think bear with sore head) and he became unpredictable.  He was eventually PTS after biting twice.

If she were mine, I would go for the op but bring her home straight after and keep her separated till she recovers.  You might find she is a new dog after the pain goes.
One thing though, if the vet said she was still going to suffer pain/infection, I would PTS.  Drastic but if nothing can free her from pain, I would do it.  Must be a miserable life when in constant pain.

Romside, there really is no need for your dog to be in pain, just like people there are drugs that will control pain. The best way forward is to have the operation done and then make sure the vet gives you pain killers that work for your dog. The other thing you can do is calm down your anxiety must be adding to her stress and that is not what you want I am sure.

>so she'll be deaf,now dont most dogs just 'go' deaf gradually? this will be scary as hell for her.

I don't think it will be scary for her. I'd have thought that silence would be easier to cope with than muffled noises, I'd imagine that the muffled sounds she hears now is a bit confusing.

My last dog went deaf, I'm not sure how long it took for him to go deaf as we didn't know he was loosing his hearing. We thought he was getting stubborn (ignoring recalls). He was 'stubborn' for months before it dawned on me that he couldn't actually hear us any more. He suffered terribly for a few years with ear infections, but luckily for him, it was sorted by excluding chiken from his diet.
The pain he would get from the ear infections really effected him.
He got run over by a car (before he was deaf and nothing to do woth his hearing, but bear with me) - he was wrapped around the axle, stuck underneath against the engine and amazingly didn't suffer any major problems, we had to jack the car up to get him out. He had burns to his body (from being pressed against the exausht), cuts and grazes and skin torn from palces from impact and being dragged along the road, a tooth knocked out, eyes full of blood, but no broken bones or internal problems other than brusing & soft tissue damage. He had 2 drains put in one large wound and it took him weeks to recover, the poor thing would scream in pain when trying to have a poop, he was really battered about and sore, but with all that he was never grumpy, but he would be when he had an ear infection.

I'm sure getting rid of the pain from ear infections will have a huge positive effect on your girl, she will not be feeling vulnerable due to the pain anymore.

When our dog was deaf, he never had problems with being startled due to the deafness, untill his eyesight got very poor. When he was almost blind we had to be carefull not to startle him. With his eyesight good, he somehow knew if people were approaching him, he must have been extra tuned in to seeing shadows etc.

ONce we realised he was deaf, commincation with him was great as we realised it wasn't about speaking, it was about hand signals. Getting the attention of a deaf dog in the house can be suprisingly easy if you are in the same room - a hard stamp on the floor and they can feel it through thier feet :)

You've allready said that NOT having the opperation is not an option - so stop worrying about that, it's the best thing for her :)
You can get the vet to make sure she has all the pain relief she needs for her recovery and you can help keep her feeling safe and put your mind at rest by making sure she has her own area for recovery so that she is not disturbed by anybody or other dogs when you can't be supervising her.
Perhaps dedicate a room of the house as 'her' room while she is recovering (I always use the kitchen as a 'safe room' if I need it, wipe clean floors, dog proof and not a place for the kids to be playing in anyway).
Her crate can be in there but you can also put a baby gate at the door to be extra safe. If you take out the possibility of kids or dogs being able to get to her, she will feel safer and more relaxed and you can be a bit more relaxed in the knowledge that you are keeping others safe from her if she is going to get a bit defensive when disturbed.

Just a thought - she may be a bit 'grumpy' with Matthew as she's feeling vulnerable due to her ear pain - if she doesn't trust him like she trusts you then she will be different with him. When Buster had a hotspot on his leg, I wouldn't even allow my husband to stroke him with me not about, Buster trusts me to do anything to him, even when he's in pain, but he hasn't got that same trust in my OH. It could be worth getting in a behaviourist to help buid up more trust (and subsequent obedience) with her & Matthew once she has recovered from her op (if she is still the same with him).

Thank you...im a bit calmer reading different opinions and experiences...im still upset about it all and im feeling a bit lost as im still worried ect but i may try my best to make sure im there when she wakes up...

I see someone mention the teca yes i belive this is it..but i was told there will be holes in the side of hear head with a tiny drain in for any build up of fluid???
i was also told the recovery period of two ears together is about 10 weeks,im only going by what ive been told :-/
its a lot to cope with on your own:-(

monday will be the decider

> I see someone mention the teca yes i belive this is it..but i was told there will be holes in the side of hear head with a tiny drain in for any build up of fluid???

This sounds more like Vertical Canal Resection NOT Total Ear Canal Ablation.  VCR removes only the vertical ear canal and leaves access to the horizontal canal.  TECA removes both vertical and horizontal canals.  This is why your vet mentions that the dog may still be at risk from some infection with VCR - TECA removes much more of the risk, up to 92%

Have a Google but there are some articles you might find useful:
1)   Canine ear canal surgery considerations - How to choose between lateral wall resection and total ear canal ablation.
2) Surgical Treatment of Ear Disease
3)  Extract from Anatomy book

We have been considering a VCR for a little while.  I hope a bit of background reading might help in your decision making

If it's any help, Winnie, the dog I mentioned earlier having had TECA surgery, had her first ear done in March 2008 which did temporarily result in facial paralysis (that lasted 2-3 weeks during which time I had to use artificial tears as she could no longer blink). Her 2nd op. was April 2008 and there were no problems at all with that. May 2008 she was back competing in agility and got her first ever clear round :) . As I said recovery was quick and (touching wood) we've had no ear problems since.

One thing I would say is to consider having each ear done a month apart as Winnie did. My vet said each ear would take about 3 hours, and it's incredibly fiddly surgery, so for one vet to do 6 hours solid and for the dog to be under anaesthetic for that amount of time is a bit much really IMO and that of my vet.

Update:

Bella is home having been seen monday and had the mri and only needing ONE ear done...complicated the vet said and it was difficult but she should be fine after this.
she has allegies so will need a visit to my vet to introduce something for that,and after all that worry my girl is looking worse for wear but im a happy mummy....i have my baby back

id just like to add a note from the heart to say thank you to everyone who took the time to help calm me and advise me at such a stressful time for me and bella.we're both extremly grateful .x.x.x.x.x

> Nikita, have you tried supplements?  I've heard good things about reversing the effects of dementia with B12 injections in people.  Not entirely but could buy your some time.

Yes, he's on them - that's how I established he was deficient as he was showing early signs of dementia (confusion, staring into space, non-response at times) but knowing that it's often the cause of it in people, and experiencing the same things myself with my own deficiency, I tried him on my tablets and it made a hell of a difference straight away :-)

That's good news and I'm glad your feeling better :)