Hi all, I know this subject topic has been covered before but I couldn't find an answer that suited my exact needs so I'm asking again.

I have a 14 month old male and 4 month old female Black Labradors.  The male I've had since 7 weeks and he's been prescribed by our vet Advocate for his flea/wormer prevention.  As you probably know this is the pipettes type on the back of the neck. Almost impossible to do with a wriggly Lab, he hates the smell and runs away when he sees me with it, even tho i try to be discreet! My main concern is his reaction to it. Quite often he is a little bit sick the next morning, not much, but I can only put it down to a reaction to the chemicals in it. I haven't discussed this with the vet, and to be honest the stuff seems to work. I've been reading up on different methods of treatment and there are varying methods/choices and it seems to be a personal choice thing.

I've only just got my 4 month old yesterday and will be taking her to the vet to get registered and checked over next week, I also want to get her flea/wormer sorted but am unsure what to do as I'm now a bit reluctant to use Advocate. The breeder used a shampoo and Bob Martin and Johnstones tablets.  I'm happy to pay whatever the cost is I just want to best for my dogs, although Advocate is expensive and I am very sceptical about Vet fees and drug mark-ups.
Cooper my boy is a big swimmer and maybe Maya the girl will be to when she's able to go on longer walks, so that is a consideration too, that the treatment doesn't get washed off.

If there are any large breed dogs that could offer advice I'd be very grateful.
Thanks

Hi - Why are you using Advocate?  Do your dogs eat slugs and snails or a lot of grass?

The main function of Advocate is for preventing lungworm, but this is only contracted if dogs eat slugs, snails or grass (which might carry slugs and snails).  Even if your dog does eat these, there are other oral drugs you can give which have the same effect.  Unlike what most vets tell you, you do not need to use a spot-on product.  IMO vets are way overselling Advocate and over-treating dogs with spot on pesticides to prevent something which dogs are only likely to contract if they eat snails and slugs.  Pesticides are toxic to all insect life, to bees and butterflies and to aquatic organisms (fish and water organisms). If you swim your dog, you are exposing aquatic life to those pesticides.  They come off on bedding and on people who pet them - which is why the instructions say not to let children and pets sleep together after they've been treated with a pesticide.  And they are carcinogenic - for both pets and people.  Please think carefully before using any spot-on product:  Do you need it?  ANd is there an alternative?

Johnsons brands are petshop brands and they are not very effective.  I'd definitely want to treat him immediately with something more effective asap.

Why are you treating for fleas regularly as a preventative?  Fleas can be treated only when your dog contracts them, you don't need to give a monthly drug to your dog.  Just keep an eye on them and if/when you see a flea, treat then.  In the past 7 years I've only treated my dogs twice for fleas. 

What you do need to treat your dogs for is roundworm and tapeworm.  The wormers to look for and buy (which you can buy online too) are Panacur, Drontal + and Plerion.  There are a few others too, but those are the most common.  You can buy these online and without prescription.  Panacur is also effective against lungworm when given as a 7 day dose, so you don't need the Advocate then.

I use Plerion on my lot and give garlic capsules for flea prevention.

>The breeder used a shampoo and Bob Martin and Johnstones tablets.

Unfortunately those products aren't very effective, so be prepared for a shock in the poo when a decent wormer is given!

Thanks for your replies. To be honest I am using Advocate as that's what the vet I take him to prescribed, but the more I read up the more unsettled i feel. I have used Panacur on Border Collies that I had a few years ago, but I'm with a different vet now and I guess they have their favoured drugs.

I think I'll go with my gut instincts and go back to what I've used before which is what the majority of people here are recommending, tho I must admit I've never heard of giving dogs garlic for flea treatment before.

Hate the thought of unnecessary chemicals in my dogs.  My dog has been given the Advocate every month for the last 11 months, the last one last week, when should I next give him a wormer, presumably he won't need any flea treatment until there are any signs of any appearing on him.

Garlic isn't a treatment more a preventative supplement .

I have used this for quite a few years on my Labs and have only ever found one flea on one of my girls.

You need to assess your dog's lungworm risks before you know how to use the Panacur:  Does your dog eat slugs and snails and/or grass?  If yes, you might want to use the longer 7 day dosage of Panacur which is recommended for lungworm, and to do so every month.

If your dog is not at risk of lungworm, you can just give a one-off dosage of Panacur, every 3 months, for use as a round and tapewormer. 

The problem with your question - when should you next give him a wormer - is that Advocate does not treat tapeworm.  So if that's all your dog has been receiving, and no other treatment, he has never been treated for tapeworm.  If that's the case, I would give a dose of Panacur as soon as you get it in. 

NB:  Panacur only treats 1 type of tapeworm and does not treat 'the flea' tapeworm, but if you've been using Advocate to zap fleas, it's unlikely your dog would have contracted that one so you're ok.  If you stop using Advocate, you might want to occasionally use either Drontal + or Plerion - which do cover both forms of tapeworm.  (They do not treat lungworm, though; of the available non-prescription oral drugs in the UK, only Panacur does that.)

Hi, as well as the monthly dose of advocate, he was given another tablet, can't remember the name, which treated him for tapeworm, this is given every 6 months. I have just given him an Advocate (on the 24th), and he had the last tapeworm one in the summer.  My question was If I change the treatment to another type/make, I'm not sure when to start it.  I will be taking the new pup to the vets probably tomorrow so I will ask them, but I'm not always sure they give impartial advice, having said that I haven't asked them.
I realise this probably makes me sound quite ignorant and inexperienced, I just want to do the right thing for the dogs and be aware of what's in the drugs that the vets give him.

>I just want to do the right thing for the dogs and be aware of what's in the drugs that the vets give him.

Your invoice or the label on the packet will tell you what's been prescribed, so you can google the name of the product and add NOAH (which stands for National Office of Animal Health) to read the datasheet with all the information the vet gets.

JG is right, you need to research things yourself (which is partly what you are doing, here) and IMO not just do what a vet tells you.  I was at our vet's a few months ago and ran into a whippet who had come to my training classes.  They were there because they were picking up their usual flea and tick spot-on.  This is a whippet which is an urban dog and doesn't run through cover to contract ticks and any fleas would be spotted instantly due to very short coat.  Too many vets just blindly prescribe same stuff to everyone without thinking about each individual dog's needs and risk factors.

If he has been treated for tapeworm recently, AND if you're worried about lungworm, then I would treat with 7 days of Panacur a month after the last Advocate. 

If you're NOT worried about lungworm, then treat 3 months after the last Advocate and with just a one-off dose of Panacur.

Again, you still need to ask yourself if lungworm is a risk factor for your particular dog - until you have determined that, you can't decide what meds to give or how frequently....

>I have used Panacur on Border Collies that I had a few years ago,

I have both Collies and toy breeds and use Drontal on adults and Panacur on pups. I have no need to worm my dogs monthly, and every 3 or 4 months is more than enough for mine.  Although I accept it may well be different if they were exercised on pasture land, in that case I would be worming monthly. 

However, I don't routinely use flea prevention, as I hadn't seen fleas for over 5 years until recently.  I have a lot of dogs, and they all live in the house, so using a carpet/furniture spray would be automatic when fleas are seen.

Last week I found one solitary flea on one of my bitches while grooming, as well as a lot of flea dirt.  Inspecting all the rest of the gang, I found two more dogs with a single flea.  I only ever use Frontline spray, never spot on.  I blasted the 3 dogs.  Then put all the other dogs in flea collars.  I have not seen a single flea since.

They always say that if you find a single adult flea there are many more in various stages of development in the environment.