I know there are some nurses on the forum so I am hoping that they can offer me a bit of advice. My daughter was taken into hospital on Wednesday. She was told she needed blood tests and x rays and an MRI scan to diagnose her problem. She has so far had the blood tests, taken yesterday and has not been told the results of them. She was woken for an  xray at 1AM yesterday morning.

She was told she would have the MRI scan yesterday morning but so far this has not happened. She has been told every time she asks that the doctor is doing rounds and will be along shortly to tell her the blood results. I was at the hospital at 4 pm today and the nurses said the DRs visit was imminent. Now at 9PM he has still not seen my daughter. She has been in there nearly 3 days and has no diagnosis, no treatment apart from a drip with some fluids yesterday and no idea when she might get the MRI or see the doctor. Both she and I have asked the nurses what is happening and they call the DR and say he will be along soon but still  nothing is happening.

Are there any steps we can take to get the Dr to actually come and see my daughter and explain what is going on and maybe get some treatment? As it is Saturday tomorrow my daughter thinks she will not get any more information until Monday now and is wanting to discharge herself as she says if she is lying around without treatment she might as well do it at home but she is still ill so obviously I don't want her to do that.

Is there pals office in the hospital ? If there is I would go and have a chat with them we had a problem when my daughter was admitted to hospital over which team she was under and the availability. Of a scan and when it would happen . They were most helpful and got things moving very quickly. Failing that keep pushing and jumping up and down good luck

I have no advice other than any time I have asked I have been told to ask these
http://www.pals.nhs.uk/
I have never needed to in the end but I know they have helped no end of people and are the first port of call. Maybe a good idea to ask advice from them xx
Hope your daughter is sorted soon xxx
Lea x

Not sure but think PALS may only work Monday to Friday...

thanks everyone, Will investigate PALS in the morning.

found contact details for PALS at the hospital and yes they only work Monday to Friday. I will visit later. If nothing has changed will making a nuisance of myself help or make things worse?

Sometimes they will prefer to wait for all results of bloods and scans are in before giving a diagnosis, however I would expect you to have been told what they think it might be.
Ask who is your daughters consultant and what day/ time he does his ward round, then ask who is the nurse in charge of your daughter right now and ask them what is happening.
Unless your daughters consultant is on call this weekend her own doctors won't be in, this is why you need to do all this in the week.

Oh thats strange, i was in hospital monday due to abdo pains. There was a lady opposite me who had been waiting 11 days for her MRI and the woman next to her 5 days........i dont understand why they take so long?! Hope your daughter gets sorted soon x

Well i  am just about ready to scream. The nurses have now told my daughter that she won't be getting her scan today nor seeing the DR. Still no treatment and no word from the Dr. She has Jaundice and has been yellow for a week. I thought jaundice was serious? I can't understand why they are not doing anything?

Unfortunately if it's a big hospital there can be lots of reasons why the MRI can't be done straight away, other higher urgency medical reasons including unknown emergencies from A&E etc., a lot do routine MRI scans at weekends which have been booked weeks in advance.

Not many doctors work at the weekend, it is more the junior staff who are involved.  I'd wait and see after the rounds tomorrow what's happening and get in touch with the consultants secretary and say that you want to see one of their team tomorrow for any results or advice on what'shappening.

I did find a duty manager to complain to yesterday and she got things moving a bit. a Dr (but not her Dr) finally came to see my daughter and explained  that the blood results were concerning and they don't want to discharge her as there is a possibility she could deteriorate very quickly. He also said that he could not understand why she had not had the scan already as he felt that her case was urgent and if she had been his patient then it would have been done last week!

Still no treatment but at least Daughter understands why she has to stay in. We will both be contacting the PALS people to make a formal complaint about the appalling handling of my daughters case.

I work for PALS, if you need any advice just ask and if I can help I will :-)

Gabrielle x

Your daughter should be seen daily by a Dr, may only be a junior one but at least she will know she is being reviewed and any treatment updated. You can ask for the consultants secretary phone number and they will make arrangements for you to see them either on the ward at the end of his round or in his office.

MRI's do take longer to do depending on urgency, the hospital I retired from last year would bring in a mobile scanner periodically to help catch up on any back log and it would be working from 8am to 8pm 6days a week, the main hospital scanner no longer just works on week days.

I hope you get some answers soon.

Hope you get somewhere today. I have sat in yopur shoes and it is so frustrating and a concern 

Wow.  And to think Obama wants us to have a health care system much like yours.

Mmm.. our NHS has its faults, but I don't recall any cases of people dying, at home, because they can't afford treatment, which I know does happen in the US.

Very true, theemx.
Odie, I am sure President Obama has the intelligence to look at overall outcomes and patient satifaction levels rather than at individual cases related on the internet.
Whilst the NHS, like so much of the world, has to come to grips in dealing with ever increasing demand in a changing economic climate it still serves all the people on a basis of equality to most people's great satifaction.
You should not fear it, it's still just insurance really (and you can top it up privately of course if you really think it will not do) except, rather than just taking care of yourself you take care of all of your society, making for a much better world to live in :)

Well said theemix and stooge. Naturally we are protective of out nhs inspite of its faults and deficiencies . However rather this than systems in  other countries which do not give equality.  Hopefully we are trying to improve the system as slow as that may be

No fear here that an insurance company will deem certain investigations/treatment too dear and refuse to pay.

Having worked for the NHS as a nurse from 1972 till late last year when ill health forced me into early retirement, I have seen many changes,majority for the better in the patients case, I was shocked to learn I was earning 1/3 less than someone with 1/3 of my years of experience and I was responsible for 3x as many patients and was covered to carry out many more procedures than a nurse in the US, had I been many years younger I would have considered giving it a go over there.

>And to think Obama wants us to have a health care system much like yours.

Sensible man. He can see the sense and equality in a system that everyone pays towards and everyone is entitled to use, whatever their race, creed, colour or income, and free at the point of use. So much better than being turned away from hospitals because you happen to be poor, especially in a nation that declared "Bring me your poor, your huddled masses ..." They're clearly expendible nowadays.

WOW Obama wants one like ours and our government is getting rid of it?

Hey Odie, when the time comes you can vote for the Mittwit and make absolutely sure that when it comes to healthcare, or anything else, all men are not created equal.

>>you take care of all of your society, making for a much better world to live in<<

Beautiful sentiment.  One problem.  WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.

>> all men are not created equal. <<

We are created equal.  We have equal opportunity.  What Obama and the liberals want to do is ensure equal OUTCOME.  That is un-American.  You see here, if you work harder and you have more money you can buy more stuff, including better quality health care.  That said, it is factually untrue that someone who shows up at a hospital and can't afford treatment is sent home to die.

I am not disputing for a minute that our health care system has significant problems.  The issue is our government doesn't have a very good track record of efficiently solving problems. 

We certainly need health are reform.  There is no question about that.  But look at the mess Europe is in.  Do we really want to be more like them?

> WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.

Really?  The UK can.  Well, more precisely we can manage the budgets we have by having bodies like NICE to decide which treatments provide reasonable outcomes for outlay. 
I am sure a country as affluent as America would manage to a raise a budget at least as generous.

>But look at the mess Europe is in.  Do we really want to be more like them?

Probably not, nor do we in many respects.  They don't have the NHS for a start. :)

But look at the mess Europe is in.  Do we really want to be more like them?

How much do you actually know about healthcare in Europe, Odie? I think you'd be surprised at the level of free and affordable healthcare in countries Spain and Germany--it's free across EU member states to UK residents travelling with an EHIC card.

And certainly money does not buy you wonderful care. My father went into a very well known self-styled world class hospital in NYC for a fairly routine test prior to bypass surgery and never came out, not because he didn't survive surgery but because he died 6 weeks after developing a lethal staph infection which was only noticed days after an intravenous line was inserted. He complained of pain but was told by his consultant that pain was normal. By the time the infection was diagnosed he had surgery to remove several inches of vein but he could not be saved. And just so we really get a sense of the level of world class care available in the land of the free and equal, the hospital fought tooth and nail for 8 years to avoid admitting liability. My mother had a child still in school and was terrified of losing her home in case she had to pay the legal costs; she wanted to give up many times but my father had made her promise to pursue the case. On the eve of the court case the hospital made her an offer in full settlement, a fraction of what they would have had to pay out but they judged their war of attrition very well.

And as for equal opportunity, you remind me of a grim little story so I'll share it here. A friend of mine from one of the northern mill towns told me that when he was a boy in the 60s one of the factory workers used to come out to the lodge (actually the mill pond remaining from the days of steam) with a bag over his shoulder. The bag was full of the latest litter of kittens from one or other of the factory cats. He'd throw the bag into the lodge and say "there--if you can get out of that you can live." Guess how that turned out. Equal opportunity as a theory means damn all if you toss in an accident of birth and mix well with an absence of moral conscience.

>We have equal opportunity.

No you don't. If your family is on a very low income then you have far fewer opportunities than if you're born into a wealthy family. That's the same the world over, and the US is no different. What it does mean is that if all your time and energy is needed to provide a roof and food then you can't afford insurance premiums; we've seen over here how one of the first things to be dropped in the recession (triggered by appalling practices in the US banking system,incidentally) is pet insurance. if you couldn't afford thst in the first place then something else has to go. However because of the NHS that doesn't mean that you won't get suitable medical care if you fall ill or have an accident; you're treated according to medical need, not to ability to pay. I know for a fact that if you don't have 'the right insurance' your child won't get treated at certain ERs in the US - and that is truly appalling and totally indefensible.

well said Jeangenie, and for anyone interested Radio 4 has a great debate programme on moral issues to do with welfare and access to healthcare hosted by Prof Michael Sandel, "The Pubic Philosopher"--well worth a listen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nl6h6

Jay 15 I hope that is meant to say "public"

LOL Rhodach! :-D :-D :-D

I have been complaining for some time now that my keyboard has developed an extreme reluctance to add the letter L where needed...obviously I need to apply more care to proofreading. 

Yes, for everyone thinking they might be about to tune into something entirely more racy, it is indeed the PUBLIC Philosopher. Sorry.

so my thread seems to have wondered off course slightly :)
An update. My daughter did get her scan in the end and is now waiting for her condition to stabilise so further treatment can be given. We are much happier now we have a diagnosis and treatment plan. Although I do wish the Dr had explained all the aspects of my daughters ilness. the Nurses have been excellent and have found out thye answers to the questioms we have had.

And on the subjectof American health care. My daughter and her husband have 2 small children. Although both work they are still on a low income and struggle to make ends meet. I am not in a position to help them either as I also don't earn a huge wage. I know my daughter would not be able to afford healthcare insurance. If we didn't have the NHS then I am sure she would be one of those people who ends up seriously ill or dying as they couldn't afford treatment.
Although I was unhappy about the speed at which some of the tests were done and the lack of communication I am very thankful we do have an NHS to treat my daughter.

Glad that you are getting somewhere and that you are getting the answers you want.

Just to add to the debate, if we didn't have the NHS we wouldn't pay as much tax so theoretically we would be able to afford to buy health insurance.
Unfortunately there are people who put drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and having a good time and everything that they 'want' before feeding and clothing their kids so I doubt they would buy health insurance.

I have worked in the NHS all my working life and I have seen at first hand the health tourists and money spent unnecessarily, but I have also seen people who wouldn't buy insurance So we need to keep it, however imperfect it is.

> Unfortunately there are people who put drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and having a good time and everything that they 'want' before feeding and clothing their kids so I doubt they would >buy health insurance.

I know you are not saying that my daughter is like this but just felt I should point out that neither my daughter or her husband spend money on drink, drugs or cigarettes. They don't have a car, satellite TV or even a broadband internet connection. Husband cycles 5 miles to work each day to avoid bus fares and daughter returned to her job when baby was only a few weeks old as they needed the money. I don't know whether or not they would buy health insurance if they were better off, but at the moment I am glad we have the NHS so we can get treatment when needed

I wasn't aiming it at you !!!
I am wholeheartedly pro NHS despite it's imperfections and the people who abuse it.

We've all seen what happens with Pet Health Insurance - price hikes, illnesses not covered, money running out etc.   

I doubt that Private Health Insurance ofr humans would be much different in the long term.

Nevertheless we all pay health insurance through our taxes and NI contributions - National Insurance - it's kind of a give-away really ;)

> I doubt that Private Health Insurance ofr humans would be much different in the long term.

Indeed.
Spotted this in my morning paper too:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9648667/Milestone-skin-cancer-drugs-available-on-NHS.html
If we only had private health insurance would such buying power ever have been brought to bear thus making this treatment available for anyone who needs it and would benefit or would just the lucky affluent few have received it (sometimes without appropriate benefit) at the manufacturers desired price?

> If we only had private health insurance would such buying power ever have been brought to bear thus making this treatment available for anyone

Yes - BUT (and I say this having a sister who has advanced cancer and so has required a lot of very expensive treatment) - this is one of the reasons why the NHS is struggling :( :( IMO so much of the budget is being spent on these treatments that the quality of basic CARE is sometimes suffering.

For myself, if I had to go into hospital, my main wish would be for good, compassionate, general nursing first and foremost - expensive treatments after that, if there is enough money.

> at the manufacturers desired price

My son lost his job in pharmaceuticals last year because the industry is in decline due to cuts in budgets etc. He is currently retraining as there isn't a single similar job to apply for in this country. Cutting the price of drugs for the likes of the NHS is fine, but, in the long run it may slow down the production of new drugs which are hugely expensive to research and produce.

> Yes - BUT (and I say this having a sister who has advanced cancer and so has required a lot of very expensive treatment) - this is one of the reasons why the NHS is struggling

That's the point though, Daisy. NICE will not allow us to spend what the budget won't stretch to and what is not demonstrated to give a good outcome at the price. 
It will always be a struggle, I believe, because we are constantly finding new ways to deal with health issues in a population that grows ever older.
We all have such different wants that there will always be someone wishing we spent more on something be it cancer treatments, infertility, straight forward nursing care or whatever.  At least with the NHS there is an attempt to respond to the wishes of society rather than just being market driven.
I'm sorry about your son and anyone else who may have lost their jobs. I have always been supportive of the tremendous research and development brought about by the drug companies where others seem to simply condemn them without a thought but I suppose the reality of the world economy is we may not be able to afford what they are capable of producing for us just right now.

> I'm sorry about your son and anyone else who may have lost their jobs

Oh he's fine :) Enjoying being a student again :) :) May even be a better career - who knows :)

> but I suppose the reality of the world economy is we may not be able to afford what they are capable of producing for us just right now.

Yes - but difficult telling ill people that :(

The new Clinical Commissioning Groups which are to replace the Primary Care Trusts  I think will start to make a difference on how the budget provision is used from next year.

It will be more focused on this area and have more clinical based decsions on how the budgets are spent.

How ever there is still only a budget they can work to this is why they are being encouraged to more more commercially aware and so start to be looking at more revenue generating which is happening more in the Secondary care sector.

The modernisation of the NHS I feel is a positive thing and will benefit the people they are looking after.

It is in the interest of the drug companies to bring prices down to make leading edge medicines to become more available. They will increase the production adding efficiencies in production and material costs and turnover whilst making up for the reduction in price. The more they do it the more likely they will get more orders .

http://www.commissioningboard.nhs.uk/

Have a look at  Commissioning Board website. I think it makes sense although alot of people are still against it.

>It is in the interest of the drug companies to bring prices down to make leading edge medicines to become more available. They will increase the production >adding efficiencies in production and material costs and turnover whilst making up for the reduction in price. The more they do it the more likely they will get >more orders

That's basic pricing theory :) :) They still have to ensure that they cover the huge research costs and they will only do this if they get the price right. While there is a global recession this is difficult. If they don't get it right, more drug companies will go under and that will have an affect on the production of new drugs too :(