Just thought I'd share this.

Over the past few months, Remy has shown signs that he might be on the gradual decline into canine dementia (or at least, that's how it looked to me).  He's been getting less responsive to me and other dogs, less bothered about dropped treats (not like him at all - before he would be all excited trying to find one, lately he's just watched it fall then looked back at me), rather blank when I've cuddled him instead of the cuddle monster he's always been - often I could try and get him licky and happy and he'd just stare through me - and standing looking at me when I'm trying to call him over, as though it's taking an age to work its way through his brain to make him move.  He's been standing in the garden staring at nothing a lot too.

Now I had been considering trying him on Aktivait; however, I have learned a lot about B12 over the last year through my own experiences with mild deficiency, causing all of the above symptoms (well, except searching for treats on the ground :-P), memory problems, thinking through treacle, that sort of thing.  General out-of-it-ness which is what I've seen in Remy.

I also know that often, B12 deficiency is misdiagnosed as dementia in people (mainly because B12 simply isn't thought of and checked).  So I decided to try him on it.

I take it myself so I had a quality supplement already; so last week he had two of my tablets a few days apart to give him a boost.

Overnight he got a little more lively, by day two I had my old dog fully back! :-D And he's been fine since - happier out and about with dogs, trying to play with Linc again which he hasn't done in a few months, so much more responsive to me and my old cuddle velcro boy is back :-)

No questiosn for you all today, I just wanted to share this in case anyone is going through the same thing and might not think of considering B12.  The Merck vet manual gives the dose as 1000-2000mcg once a day, and the best form to use (as in people) is methylcobalamin, safer and better absorbed than other forms :-)

i have a freind whos dog has b12 deficiency due to campobylobactor, everything in his bloods pointed to it, much more common than people think, my dogs get a b complex with methyl in every day

> and the best form to use (as in people) is methylcobalamin,

I'm injected with it every 12 weeks, as my own body destroys B12 even though I eat foods rich in it!  Can dogs have the same problem, and be unable to absorb it orally?

Could be wrong but think that liver is rich in B12 or am I remembering it incorrectly it is a very long while ago when I studied this.

I hope this keeps him back to his normal self.

There was someone a few days back talking about their dog acting like they had senile dementia, was that you?

If not it might be worth adding re dementia to your title so they could pick up on it.

When I was a student nurse in the 70's doing my 6 weeks on " the district " as it was called then we had one morning a week going around giving Vit B inj.,it was bright red, not given it since so don't know if it is still red.

Yes dogs can suffer from it,malabsorbtion or whatever the reason for the deficiency .it is widley used with livestock, when it sits in the liver it isnt usable,same as in people also some people cant use methycobalomin & need dibecozide b12 as when you are injected with hydroxy in the uk this converts to Methyl & debencozide also vets use cynocobalamin & again this converts to methyl & dibencozide

Also nikita it goes hand in hand with thyroid

b12 deficiancy was at first treated by people eating liver yuk here you go brainless
http://www.b12d.org/content/gruesome-facts

That actually explains a lot, i started taking B12 myself last year and saw a real improvement in my concentration levels.

Hop over too pas pernacious anemia society also there are a couple of groups on fb if you want me post links i can ;)

http://www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org/

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/174928999276739/   Pernacious Anemia Support group
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/341107569314599/ B12 deficiancy support Group uk
the face book groups also have the mods from the pa society as members

> it was bright red, not given it since so don't know if it is still red

It is!  :-)

And very thick like syrup.  Hurts like hell if someone isn't experienced and tries to put it in quickly.

> There was someone a few days back talking about their dog acting like they had senile dementia, was that you?

Nope, I've not mentioned it anywhere before today.  I'll go have a look :-)

> Also nikita it goes hand in hand with thyroid

I know low B12 has a detrimental effect on absorption of the hormones at cellular level, which is why I started taking it myself originally.  But just having a quick read after you saying that, I didn't realise low thyroid could cause low B12 - always learning :-)  Would certainly make sense, given it was about 6 years from the start of his hypothyroid symptoms until he was on a treatment that actually worked (and he spent 3 years on soloxine which actively makes him worse).  When I have some money again (snort) I'll pester the vet for vit/min tests I think to check the other important ones.

dont get too hung up on numbers & ref ranges which you know from thyroid, treat the symptoms rather than the numbers also a lot of lab ranges differ in different parts of the uk which has caused people to go undiagnosed or borderline &  total serum levels are not predictive you need to look at the overall picture, such as mcv size, ferratin etc, what harm can it do its a water soluable vitamin that is extremley safe in high doses
have a look at this this is the testing pas is calling for
http://www.active-b12.com/

I tend to ignore the boundaries of ranges and look at where the numbers fall - as far as the NHS is concerned I officially have CFS because although all my dozens of symptoms are hypothyroid, my T4/T3 are both still in range (but right at the bottom and dropping, without meds).  Likewise my B12 was fine when it was 389 and I had a lot of symptoms - I'm fine now and it was over 900 at the last test.

The most I want from tests is just a rough idea as I had with me - with all my tests nothing was out of range but I was able to identify a few vit/min deficiencies ni the key ones and correct them, which helped a lot before I went on meds proper.

389 lol in japan they would of been straight onto treatment with you, its shocking that you have to be armed with information to get treatment, hell i would of been diagnosed with ms & if not pushed my mum would never of been diagnosed with bowel cancer ( they kept treating her for iron anemia)

That's the worst thing, I didn't get treatment!  There was never a problem as far as they were concerned, not with my B12 level or my thyroid.  Both are self-treated, even after handing them a list of symptoms with everything ticked off as sorted.  The only thing that's gotten treated is my low vit D and only because it actually did drop out of the range!

if your ever stuck have a look at dr myhill's site you can order the tests for yourself & she will decipher them for you, also it would give you a bit of back up for your medical files, think st thomas hospital do the active b12 test & its around 10- 20 pounds if i remember right

Normal ranges are there as a guideline but not everyone falling into the normal range is actually symptom free so vets/Dr's need to be flexible which junior members tend not to be as they go by what it says in the book due to lack of experience.

Frankly I have yet to find a single doctor or specialist of any kind (or any age) who is aware of what a range actually is!  I'm not worried about mine any more - as soon as I told them I was self-treating for thyroid/B12/D (D after my GP wouldn't prescribe the strength the endo wanted me on) they restested everything in a panic and have been on the ball with the B12 and D since.

But i've learned how to read them from my own experiences so if I do get Remy tested I'll know what I'm looking for :-)

Good Stuff ;)

Funnily enough have beem researching B12 for my mother. The doctor has established she is low in B12 and then after I also mention Vit d casually remarked oh yes everyone should be taking this  and it would probably help your mum. She has benn prescribe 50mcg pper day but that doesnt sem enough so after taking with my sil who is helping her son with treatment for ME and is also a qualified homeopath I have purchased some liquid vit d and b12 and mum is also taking that. She has many symptoms that may be attributed to this deficiency so its stand back and see what happens.
Doctor has suggested she looks at diet but didnt offer any help with this suggested I researched !!!
So far it seems to be meat fish and some dairy but have only just started to look> ihvae some links on the subjet so if anyone is interested pm me and i will forward them 

Is that tablets or injections? the normal dose is 1000mcgs
you can get some lozenges they work the same as you pop in your gum & let disolve so they get in the blood stream
http://bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=175&bid=11
http://bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=241&bid=3

you can also get them on ebay, amazon etc i get mine iherb in america much cheaper

Thank you Mum has been given tablets. Will recheck the bottle when I see her. I would agree withthe fact she should be on 1000mcg. Oh dear I shall get myself in trouble with the doc when I start quering lol
My sister is on B12 injections also for ME and MS my nephew (other side of teh family ) for the same ME and now my mother.
I am taking vit and am planning to take B12 too as with my underactive thyroid and depression I am wondering if it may help Thryroid has been checked by endocrinologist who recommended the vit d 
Gosh looks like its a family trait lol 

No problem, ask them to test your mom for intrinsic & parietal cell anti bodies if she has these she needs jabs as she wont be able to absorb b12 in her stomache the sublinguals would still get into her bloodstream through her gum but the jabs are better, if you want pm me your email & i can send you medical papers & published med paper for who etc which could help also have a check on the b12org site i posted on there is a inside out prog about dr chandy who sits on pas board another good book is could it be b12 by sally pacholok a nurse who also works with pas you can get this on amazon if you struggle finding them i'll pop links on tomorrow as i cant on my phone good luck as it can be a fight :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klobLSxv6i0

Dr Chandy B12 inside out

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01mdfc0
Martyn Hooper Chairman @ PAS Radio Interview

http://www.b12d.org/
Also lots of information Here Aswell as PAS