Hi, my bitch is almost 4 and has had one litter. She will not be having another and am therefore considering having her speyed. All previous season were normal but her last season seemed to take alot out of her, she lost a fair bit of coat and had a fair amount of milk too and generally seemed down in the dumps. I cant see the point of her having to deal with all that hormonal stuff for the sake of it. Is it a good idea? Does it lessen the risk of mammary tumours and pyometra in later life? From research I have done it appears it does but would be interesting to hear others views.
She is now at an ideal weight, beautifully toned and her coat is looking great,  the things which bother me are the risk of the anesthetic, her gaining weight and losing condition of her coat. She has the tendency to gain weight easily so I expect I will have a battle on my hands to keep her trim.

Thanks

> Does it lessen the risk of mammary tumours

Absolutely

> and pyometra

It completely removes that risk

> Is it a good idea?

Yes :-) I can't see any reason to keep a bitch entire if you are not going to breed from her, or once you're finished breeding from her.

>are the risk of the anesthetic,

The risk of anaesthetic are negligible these days, if you're worried your vet will do some pre-op blood tests. In any event the risk of anaesthesia for spaying a healthy animal is much lower than anaesthesia for an emergency spay with a bitch very ill with pyometra

>her gaining weight

easily controlled, you have power over food dispensing :)

>and losing condition of her coat.

I guess that's the only possible downside, but it's a positive point for most breeds, is the increased coat (less shedding) and the change in texture of coat. There is no reason to lose condition in the coat, my 3 spayed bitches here have beautiful soft, shiny coats.

It does not always remove the hormonal stuff and sometimes the bitch will become more assertive but if you have finished breeding her as she is fully mature then I think the positive may well out strip the negative. The biggest problem may be the coat but that may well depend on the breed, coat type and the genetic make up, some suffer not at all, others in a manageable way and some are badly effected but you will not normally notice for at least 12 months what changes there are.

If she's in great shape then the risk of anaesthetic will be minimalised.  Weight gain shouldn't be an issue if you keep up her exercise and if need be, cut her food down a little - I've got 6 spayed bitches here and the only time any of them gain weight is when I don't give them enough exercise (for my own health reasons), or in Saffi's case, she gained it all when her arthritis really took hold and is losing it again now.  I've also never had any coat changes in my girls and the most recent was done two years ago.

Re. mammary cancer - the reduction in risk is itself reduced as time goes on; so the more seasons a bitch has, the less reduction in risk there will be.  So at 4 years old, her risk of mammary cancer is 40% once spayed:

Spayed before first season: risk 0.5%
Between first and second seasons: risk 8%
After two or more seasons: 26%
After two or more seasons BUT less than 30 months old: 6%
After two or more seasons BUT over 29 months old: 40%

Still less than leaving entire though, and of course no risk of pyometra which increases with age.

and losing condition of her coat

Depending on the breed, you may get the opposite as you will find the coat will grow and grow. One of my Papillon bitches that was spayed a year ago now has an incredibly long and full coat, literally an inch off the ground. Mind you, she requires three times as much grooming as before! In Malinois bitches it tends to make the coat a lot thicker but slightly wavy. All breeds vary, but it doesn't have to be a negative change.

Hi, this isn't my area as I don't have bitches but do also consider in your research the possibility of spay incontinence. I don't know how common it is but I understand it's a significant issue if your bitch is affected and I know someone who sincerely wishes she hadn't had her bitch spayed as this was the result.

Might well be worth gathering some additional information from posters here :)

spay incontinence

Don't know the numbers but it is not at all unusual in the elderly spayed bitch on the other hand it is not a definite result and can occur in the very elderly unspayed. Many of the effects of the menopause seen in the woman can also happen in the spayed bitch, removed or reduced hormones do have an effect it is a matter of choice if you are prepared to deal with this or not.

baileca,

Please do your research carefully before spaying, as there is much recent research to suggest that there are a lot of health benefits to holding off until the age of 5/6ish years.  The ovaries have health benefits for the dog, and just as human females live longer than men, so female dogs would live longer than males (on average) - were they not spayed.  Early spaying removes the advantage of being born female, for a dog.

See these studies:

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/Lo...althEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2805875/?tool=pubmed (Like women, female dogs were more likely than males to achieve exceptional longevity (OR, 95% CI = 2.0, 1.2-3.3; P= 0.006). However, removal of ovaries during the first 4 years of life (i.e. median age at ovariectomy) erased the female survival advantage over males (OR, 95% CI = 1.2, 0.7-2.2; P= 0.55). In females that retained their ovaries for more than 4 years, likelihood of exceptional longevity increased to more than three times that of males (OR, 95% CI = 3.2, 1.8-5.7; P< 0.0001). ...dogs with the longest ovary exposure (6.1-8.0 years) were 3.2 times more likely to reach exceptional longevity than dogs with shortest exposure (P= 0.002) (Table 2; Supporting Fig. S1)....After excluding all cancer deaths, females who kept their ovaries during the first 7 years of life (i.e. highest tertile of ovary exposure) were more than nine times more likely to reach exceptional longevity than females with shortest ovary exposure (P= 0.001)... )

http://www.vizslacanada.ca/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf

http://www.dogcancerblog.com/blad...ering-male-dogs-increases-risk-2/

http://saveourdogs.net/wp/wp-cont...ssion-and-spay-neuter-in-dogs.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11817057  (If bitches are unspayed to the age of 10 years old, 75% of them will not get pyo.  (Approx one in 4 will.)   If you spay earlier than this, say 5/6/7yrs, then the incidence of pyo would be even less - since the risk of pyo increases with age. )

Paper revealing the complete mix of opinions vets give, regarding when to neuter.  NB These opinions are not based on studies or research - hence so much conflicting advice:
http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/166/15/455.abstract

All my girls are spayed after their last litter (between 5 and 7 years). 

I am fortunate that coats do not alter to any very noticeable extent, in my breed, I still have mine praised for their excellent coat texture (though I do notice once spayed it isn't as waterproof as before).

As for weight I do notice you need to reduce it by 10 - 20%, but all my girls stay slim enough to win at shows well into veteran years, and to stay fit and active to the end.

Touch wood (current spayed girls 5 3/4, 9, and 13), never had one incontinent, this is a medium size breed of around 20kg adult bitch weight.  Large breed spayed bitches do seem more predisposed to spay incontinence.

So a lot will depend on breed regarding coat, but general health can well benefit as often bitches don't develop Pyometra but can have chronic hormonal issues that just pull them down, and can seem almost rejuvenated after spaying.

Unfortunately usually after the spay they will usually drop their coats as badly as after a litter and if will take a while to recover, which is why I have mien spayed 12 weeks after a litter so that the heavy moult is over and done with the once.

My girl who had pups 4 months ago is in decent enough coat now to show, except as it sometimes does with mine, the neck has come back a bit wavy and creamy (this will go after the next moult).

I would spay if I were you there are a lot more positives to spay.  Also I have known more unspeyed incontinent bitches than I have spayed ones.  I often wonder if spaying is used as an excuse for a bitch becoming incontinent during her life when it could have happened anyway.
The vet can give you something if they become incontinent anyway which will stop it.

The vet can give you something if they become incontinent anyway which will stop it.

Yes the vet can give you steroids to help with the leaking of urine but there are side effects the most common being UTI.

To spay or not to is a very personal decision, personal I leave it as long as possible but have owned a number of spayed bitches most of whom have had side effects but manageable side effects. Would say that in general bitches seem to manage better than dogs who do seem to have far more problems.

Thanks all for the input.  It is certainly not something to go into lightly but my decision will take all the points raised into consideration.  I will certainly look into the coat issues in my breed, although one of my older bitches who was speyed early, had a fantastic coat and was always very slender. We are a very active household and all our dogs are too but this particular bitch is very "cobby" in shape and can sometimes look heavier than she actually is. I'm sure she can gain weight just by looking at the others food!!

Like Barbara, I have my bitches spayed after their last litter (if they are used for breeding.)  If not having a litter, I still tend to wait until 4 years or so.  I always aim to have bitches spayed approx 12 weeks after a season, so fewer hormones raging.  I always think that, as there are less blood vessels to tie off at this time, the operation is easier, faster, and less anaesthetic for my bitches.

As to safety, I really have faith in todays anaesthetics.  I've had elderly dogs with liver/kidney problems, who had no problems at all with a GA.

> It is certainly not something to go into lightly but my decision will take all the points raised into consideration.

Regarding spay incontinence, our family has had four bitches spayed. The two large breed bitches have been fine and have had no leakage problems (one who had skin problems did get worse though, and her coat deteriorated too). The two small breed bitches both developed spay incontinence following surgery. One became incontinent in her later years. The other developed leakage when she was only around three years old.

You're right, it's not something to be done lightly. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Having had a bitch that had a pyometra at 5 yrs old, an emergency op, she was in the vets several days on a drip and touch and go if I lost her, she pulled through but then at 8 years old she had another operation for a large mammary tumour.
Since then I have always had my girls spayed if I am not going to breed from them or once they have had their last litter. Always had them done mid season, and they get over the op very quickly.
The thought of living through the trauma of another emergency Pyometra fills me with dread, and the fact they may get a slightly thicker coat is neither hear nor there.
You can look at statistics and percentages, but any risk is too great. I have always found my girls live life to the full more afterwards, no seasons, no phantoms, mood swings etc.
As for bladder weakness it can happen in later life, if they are spayed or not, and is comparatively rare in younger bitches.
One bitch we had was quite prone to weight gain, and we found adding more veg to her food helped, so she was still getting a decent amount of food in her bowl, but not the calories.

I'm un-decided.

Every bitch I have spayed has recovered from the op and been left with incontinence.  Any bitch I have left entire has not.
My old bitch(entire till recently) developed mammory cancer.  I have now spayed but it was too late and the cancer has spread. 
Saying that, she had a great coat till spaying and now, it grows out and up the way instead of lying flat and has a waxy, greasy feel to it now. 
My other bitches are entire.  I have a pup that I have no intentions of breeding and has just finished her first season.  She is a Long coat GSD.  I am concerned about spaying her (apart from the incontinence) because of her coat.  If her trousers tangle, I'm done for!!

Lots of research!

> Lots of research!

I agree, and also I think it's best to take into account what you know about your own dog. One of ours always had skin problems from an early age. It didn't occur to us that spaying would make her worse (it was many years ago). But her skin became unmanageable and in the end we didn't think she was enjoying her life any more.

Wind forward 20 years and we considered neutering for another one who also had skin issues. After talking it through with our vet, we decided it wasn't in his best interests to take the risk.

And incidentally, an unspayed large breed bitch we had did develop some small mammary tumours, some of which we had removed. They were malignant. We lost her aged 12 of an unrelated illness. Not all mammary cancers will spread quickly.

It's all a question of doing the best we can under the circumstances, not always an easy choice.

I've been reading this post with interest.  When we got our little miniature dachshund girl we were adamant that we were going to have her spayed after her first/second season.  However the more I have read into it the more undecided we have become!  She's now three years old and has just come into season which is her 4th.  I really don't know what to do for the best, it's not as cut and dried for me unfortunately.  On one hand I can see the benefits but as another poster has previously mentioned, after a certain age then the plus points to getting them done are reduced.  The way her seasons have fallen (timings, her maturity etc) we have not felt it was the right time at all to get her done.  She also does not suffer at all at the moment with her seasons.  She doesn't seem to suffer from mood swings, dogs take no interest in her at all when she is out and about and she is our only dog so it doesn't present any problems to us other than a few weeks of slight inconvenience on our part.  This season that she is currently going through is very very light too compared to the others she has had, there has hardly been any bleeding at all. 

I just think until I am 100% convinced it is the right thing to do, it's best to hold off rather than regret any decision later on.

> I just think until I am 100% convinced it is the right thing to do, it's best to hold off rather than regret any decision later on.

I think you're right. It sounds as if you have no need to have her spayed, other than for possible health benefits which are not as cut and dried as we might once have thought.

That's very true, Esme!  But there apparently is an optimum time when it is the right time to spay/neuter.  It depends wholely on breed/size/maturity,etc but if you look online, you can find the right time for your girl if you really want to do it.  My FIL has just had his pup neutered against my advice before her first season as the vet says this is the best time.  True it practically rules out mammary tumours but can cause all sorts of other cancers and problems.  I would rather take my chances with Mammory tumours!
It really is a personal decision :)

One of the papers I posted above documents the completely different and widely varying advice given by vets...  No matter how firmly any of it is presented to owners, none of it is based on evidence.

Rabid, to put your post in context, what have you done/not done with your dogs and what (if anything) has been the outcome(s).

I have only experience of spaying one dog. She was spayed at about 17 months after one season and apart from, maybe, a thicker coat, no problems wth incontinence etc - she is now 10.

Of my current dogs, my eldest was spayed before I'd found out about all this relatively recent evidence.  She was experiencing mild phantom pregnancies which involved eating occasional holes in the plaster under the table to make her nest, which was why we decided to spay.  She was about 3yrs when spayed.  She has not developed spay incontinence (large breed), but when she has had subsequent GAs for other issues, she has been incontinent on returning home - whilst still woozy, for about 12hrs after.  She was not incontinent after her spaying op.  So I do think there's something hormonal about the incontinence - she appears to be ok at the moment, but when other pressures are introduced, I think she would be incontinent.  I do wonder if it will start up in v old age.  I would say, though, that she seemed to age A LOT in the 2 yrs subsequent to spaying.  She went from looking like a young dog, to just looking older - skin tone, eye colour changed (as it does in this breed) and so on.  So I am v interested in these findings relating female hormones in ovaries to longevity and

The other 2 are not spayed.  The older one is now 5yrs old, and I think we will probably spay at 6yrs.  She does not have phantoms, is not moody, has a great coat, loves other dogs and is a flirt year round, regardless of whether she's in season or not! 

I've had 7 bitches speyed since having dogs and never had incontinence from any of them. The same Vet did them all. The last 3 had 1 litter each. 1 had a very slow labour, and the last one had a tear in her uterine horn and I nearly lost her, so they had to be speyed. I had already made my mind up they wouldnt be having any more pups.

Never had a weight, coat or hormone problem from any of them. Maybe I am lucky with that but I just worry about pyo and mammary cancers so for me its a relief when they've been speyed.

Thank you everyone for your input. After careful consideration and because we had reached the ideal point between seasons, she was speyed yesterday. Obviously, she is very sore and tired but she is doing well. First thing she did on returning home was to go outside to the toilet, so all that seems to be working well!! She has eaten a couple of very light meals but doesn't want to drink, so I have been syringing her glucose water little and often. I actually think she likes the attention and seemed very comforted that I slept downstairs with her last night. Thanks again for everone's comments, advice and experiences.

Don't worry any effects will not take place immediately but after the lack of hormones start to take effect and that can take years. Hopefully you will be lucky and any effects will not cause either you or the dog problems.