Can't remember the name of the programme with Paul O G at Battersea Dogs Home, but I watched it last night.  Was anyone else willing that little dog and her puppies to survive as much as we were?  Both got quite emotional!

I love this programme. Last weeks was equally sad with the malnourished staffy that had been dumped. Paul O'Grady is perfect for the job. I have read interviews with him where he has said that he had to walk away on many occasions to prevent crying on camera.
He had it written in his contract that he would not take any animals home but I believe he broke that contract :-)

I just hope this highlights the need for genuine forever homes for rescue animals and doesn't bring about a surge of do gooders that fancy getting a dog on a whim because theyve watched this programme then get bored 6months later (cynical of me I know!)

I watched last weeks episode[may still be on ITV player] and was horrified at the state of the staffy whe was thought to be only 2 yrs old and had more than one litter of pups, one fairly recently, the change that decent food made was remarkable and she remained friendly throughout.

Will watch all 7 episodes as they come on.

i watche the one last week, it was good but i think they could be saying a bit more about people just dumping dogs in, like with the puppies the man brought in, they took them in and said they should have no problem finding them homes. To me that sends out the message to people that its ok to just breed your dog with no though as if you cant sell all the puppies you can just give them to rescue no problem to find homes. I think they should of said something about people overbreeding and how it puts a strain on rescue to pick up the peices.

I loved the programme, missed first one but should be able to find it somewhere. Surprised that they thought there was only 2 in the jackXchi bitch she was huge and way more than 2. both me and OH guessed right at 5. Glad she was found doesnt bare thinking about if she hadnt and gone into labour cold and alone. plus malnurishment giving her no reserves to produce milk. i do wonder how people sleep at night doing this to her. Would like to hear them emphasise how much time and money comes into raising a litter and its not just easy money.

I felt terrible for that little bitch, she was big. What confused me though, was that when the pups came out the vet said 'She doesn't have any milk through so we'll have to handfeed.' Now I can understand handfeeding, that poor bitch was very malnourished, but I was always under the impression that the milk comes through after the pups have suckled for it? First colostrum then milk? If this is the case, surely the vet should have known that. My bitch didn't have milk through until after the pups had suckled for it.

it was good but i think they could be saying a bit more about people just dumping dogs in, like with the puppies the man brought in, they took them in and said they should have no problem finding them homes.

It wasn't his puppies though, was it -wasn't it his daughter's or son's or something? I think a lot of rescues will operate on a no blame policy so that people feel ABLE to bring the dogs in, otherwise if they expect a lecture they might just dump them. Just like I as a breeder say to my buyers that I will take a dog or cat back at any time for whatever reason, no questions asked. If the reason is their cat's colour doesn't match their new furniture I'd be hopping mad inside but by keeping quiet and not shouting the odds and laying blame I will ensure the animal comes to ME and does not end up elsewhere.

What confused me though, was that when the pups came out the vet said 'She doesn't have any milk through so we'll have to handfeed.'

I was shouting at the telly when they said they'd let 2 suckle and bottlefeed 3 -that was making CERTAIN the bitch would not produce as much milk as she otherwise could have done. But of course, vets know little or nothing about breeding and this one said he only does one caesarean a year.

Some bitches have milk before labour but some don't and it is the hormones produced during labour that trigger milk production, if the normal process is interupted or never started then those hormones don't get the chance to work and oxytocin given will help but doesn't always work.

Lois who had my first litter but had a litter for her breeder 2yrs before had no milk for nearly 48hrs first time around, her labour and delivery were fine but milk production was delayed and needed an Oxytocin jab to help things along, I was really pleased when 3 days before her due date, 5 days before the pups arrived she had milk as this was my only concern being my first litter and knowing she free whelped the first time I didn't have worries on that score.

There were probably lots of breeders screaming at the TV when the vet made such a comment, it goes to show they know little about breeding bar for the surgical side of things.

Like most posters here, I suspect, I have zero experience of rearing a litter on a tiny, neglected, severely undernourished bitch but I was not at all surprised to hear the vet state she had no milk.
Regardless of what her poor little body may have been capable of I think I would have done the same and left only one or two puppies on her for her own sake.
The veterinary surgeon may have done very few caesarian sections but I would not be at all surprised if Battersea do not have rather more experience in whelping generally, particularly of litters that have not benefitted from the prenatal care that most of us will experience of.

It wasn't his puppies though, was it -wasn't it his daughter's or son's or something? I think a lot of rescues will operate on a no blame policy so that people feel ABLE to bring the dogs in, otherwise if they expect a lecture they might just dump them.

Oh no I didnt mean to say to him (yes they were his daughters) and i get what your saying goldmali but i expected paul or the workers to say to the camera/viewers after about it. I just got the impresion from watching it that its ok to do it rather than pointing out to the viewers the strain it puts on rescue, over population and reasons not to let pet dogs breed willynilly ect.

I watched this evening and was really saddened by the plight of the Chihuahua, I'm no expert but just kept thinking and shouting at the telly that the poor thing just needed to learn to be a dog, thank goodness they moved him to a smaller quieter rescue that allowed him to develope his potential, hopefully he will go on to a good and sensible home.

It makes me wonder how many poor tinies get taken into a life of pampering and never really get to be anything other than a fancy baby and end up as a sad angry and confused creature.

:( :( :( :(

Pinky

And people think I'm being spiteful because I won't sell to youngsters.  Anyone over 50 is the right age group for a Chi from me!  :-)

I was livid that his eyes were so dirty.  And the girl was crying because he might be put to sleep!  It was her fault that he was snappy!

My chihuahuas get lots of love and cuddles, but they are allowed to play in the compost heap with the collies (in other words, allowed to be dogs.)  I have always chosen a huge dog to stand next to at ringcraft, and it means that I don't have to put up with snappy yappy little tykes, just because they're frightened.  Because that's what most of the noise is about.

I know others have heard the story before (so close your ears), but I have proved time and time again that toys need not be snappy.  I was one of the late appointments at the vets one night, with a 3lbs chi male.  A guy walked in, and said oh I had better leave my dogs out in the car, if that little fart is going to make a fuss.  I told him to bring his dogs in.  He said no, they are big and your guy will be frightened.  I insisted, please bring your dogs in.  He went out to the car, and absolutely swaggered in (obviously going to show me he was right), with 3 huge deerhounds.

My boy went up to say hello.  He looked gobsmacked.  Just makes me so mad when folk assume that toy dogs are snappy.  But the owner of the dog on TV tonight was not a suitable candidate for the breed.

> And the girl was crying because he might be put to sleep!  It was her fault that he was snappy!
>
>

I'm glad i wasnt the only one thinking that...stupid person letting him get like it in the first place...'i cant do anything about it'...umm YES YOU CAN!!!

I totally agree with you, it was the owners fault that her dog had issues, she never gave him a chance just to be a dog, I'd like to bet that at the rescue was the first time he actually experienced dog to dog activity.

I firmly believe that dogs don't know about size, a dog is a dog is a dog to them, it is humans that bring in the size thing and sadly the small dogs suffer most at the hands of humans by being pampered and turned into snappy anti social sad little things. A small dog certainly does not need to be snappy, we do that to them.

I commend you for your under 50 rule, I have seen a couple of tinies when on my regular walk with with my girls and my heart breaks when I see painted nails doggy jumpers and a tiny creature that cowes to my shelties. :(

I was a bit annoyed tonight - clearly the guy who took her home for a few nights does NOT actually know all there is to know about dog behaviour, as I could tell from the brief comments he made that he was going about it all the wrong way.

He expressed surprise that Bobby redirected aggressively when he confronted him about scent marking in the house - wouldn't surprise me in the SLIGHTEST that this dog redirects, I would expect that given his history!
I am really glad he went somewhere else as I feared the worst and it does worry me that Battersea clearly use people who think confronting aggressive behaviour with more aggression is the way to go.

I feel terrible for that little dog, but more for the Chihuahuas that are so well trained and are given a bad name by dogs like this. I groom a couple of long coats, tiny and beautiful creatures, and they are such a pleasure to groom. You can do anything to them, mix them with the other dogs, cuddle them and put on their leads, bath and dry, no problem.

Personally I don't mind about jumpers or painted nails, etc., so long as the dog is allowed to be a dog.

A few weeks ago there was an article in the Mail on Sunday's You magazine, about this programme. It concentrated on Chihuahuas handed in to Battersea and pointed out it was all the owners' fault for not letting them be dogs. Apparently they are now seeing a lot of tiny dogs handed in. Very good article actually.

As for snappy toydogs -in most cases it comes down to fear, especially when it is directed towards bigger dogs. They are faced with something so much bigger than them and if they're not used to it, it's bound to be scary so they react the only way they can. Again owner fault for not socialising. Granted though if you don't have your own big dogs, it's not necessarily easy to find large dogs that are safe to be around tiny puppies -you'd need to know them really well.

I firmly believe that dogs don't know about size,

Can't agree with this I am sure that dogs are aware of size and also age and state of health of other dogs, if you mean that well socialized dogs are unfazed by the size another dog is then that may be true.

When my dogs have attended ring craft it is obvious they know the size of their playmate, if small they will lay down and the way they play with the really old dogs is different to the way they play with a dog of their own age.

Thank goodness the little chi got his forever home,my friend rescued one in my opinion they are a special breed,she treats hers like a big dog he comes for walks with all the labs runs in the fieds with them gets very muddy,just a big dog in a small body,love the programme and oh when paul was lying down with the goldie,i was in tears.

Sheila

I quite understand the issues with size but I think this dog had issues with people, he seemed fine with other dogs. I am pleased he got his forever home sorted out but it would be wrong to say his problems were caused by dog agression. He was agressive to anyone who wanted him to do something he did not want to do, that is because he was allowed to get away with anything by his silly owner. She obviously got him as a "handbag" dog and spoilt him.
Yes he needed to learn that he was a dog and he needed some structure to his life. With a dog his size dog agression is not the major issue, a problem yes but not unsurmountable. He had to control his biting of people as a major issue. So many people who have small dogs do not take the snappyness seriously, untill like Bobby it gets out of control.
We meet more snappy bitey small dogs on our walks than we do big dogs, the amount of times I have gone to stroke a small dog to be told "No don't touch him he bites" People seem to think that because they can lift them up it is OK for them to be so badly behaved.
They all need to be socialized as pups with people dogs etc..
Aileen

I quite understand the issues with size but I think this dog had issues with people, he seemed fine with other dogs. I am pleased he got his forever home sorted out but it would be wrong to say his problems were caused by dog agression.

In case your reply was directed to me, I didn't mean the dog in the programme, I was referring to Jean SW's true comments about people expecting tiny dogs to be snappy towards bigger ones.

Not directed at anyone just an observation ;-)
I know many small dogs are automatically expected to be fearfull of large dogs, so many are treated like bone china and underneath they are just dogs and like all other dogs need to be socialised.
Aileen

>People seem to think that because they can lift them up it is OK for them to be so badly behaved.

That's so very true. I see loads of small dogs being allowed to pull hard on the lead (because they're not strong enough to pull the owner over) and get away with all sorts of behaviour that they themselves would frown upon if done by a big dog. Large breed puppies have a particularly hard time because unthinking people expect them to behave like a grown up dog rather than the baby they are.

when we got our first klein spitz he was not that old and somehow managed to get onto the back of the sofa, my hubby went to sit down and the little so and so showed his teeth at him, i was out the chair and spitz was dumped unceromniosuly onto the floor with a good telling off, the hubby laughed, and i said to him if that was my rottie would it be funny , the answer no, so rules where laid down the little dogs got treat the same as big dogs, they walk as they have legs, they have manners as they think they are big dogs in a little body , have had small dogs for years now , and they mingle with extremely large dogs to ones smaller than them, and i am terrible at club when someone is carrying their dogs i say put them down they have legs, yes but they are frightened, NO they are not you are put them down and let the socialise they put them down and the longest was half an hour before he started to play but once owners realise they are not that fragile those dogs walk into club the following weeks wagging tails and wanting to be dogs .

> I am sure that dogs are aware of size and also age and state of health of other dogs,

I've had 2 different dogs (on separate occasions) spot Buster from a distance, they ran towards us, looking very happy to have found a dog to greet, untill they got within a few feet of him, they both appeared to be horrified by his size and ran off :( 

> That's so very true. I see loads of small dogs being allowed to pull hard on the lead (because they're not strong enough to pull the owner over) and get away with all sorts of behaviour that they themselves would frown upon if done by a big dog

This is so true. I get fed up with people who encourage my small breed dog to jump up because it makes their life easier, rather than bending down to make a fuss of him. I have to keep repeating myself that you wouldnt encourage a great dane to jump up and get excited to make a fuss of him so please dont think thats acceptable with my dog :-) Have had a few odd looks from people when i've said that.

I do agree that the girl was to blame for that poor dogs behaviour but in her defence i genuinely dont think it was intentional. She had showered him with too much love treating him like a baby rather than a dog. I dont think the images in the media help, seeing dogs as cute accessories to have and carry round or pout in a handbag. I'm glad the gorgeous little chi is now in a happier place

I've had 2 different dogs (on separate occasions) spot Buster from a distance, they ran towards us, looking very happy to have found a dog to greet, untill they got within a few feet of him, they both appeared to be horrified by his size and ran off :-(

In an ideal world, we'd all socialise all our dogs with all different sizes, colours, looks etc, but of course it isn't always possible. My 12 year old Ripley, who was shown for 11 years, is pretty much bombproof, SHE gets wary if we have to walk closely past a giant breed at shows. There have just never been any St Bernards or similar sized dogs for us to regularly meet and so she was a few years old the first time she saw one at a show. On the other hand I have a Papillon who at her very first show aged 6 months played with a St Bernard -she was obviously still young enough to accept it as just another dog and didn't consider the dog strange in any way.

I have a Papillon who was not socialised at all before I got her, and she is terrified of black dogs.  Anything else she can cope with after my training, but not black.

I've got an almost 10 week old Malinois pup at the moment that I am working hard at socialising. So far, she's not been worried about anything really, still at the age where anything new is accepted, be it strangers, other dogs, farm animals, traffic etc etc -we've done a lot in a short time. She just loves everyone. However when faced with a friend's wolf hybrid (who is very friendly -and yes it is the real thing and not a designer crossbreed lookalike wolf) she screamed and ran off. I can only assume there was something in his smell that worried her, as how else would she find him different to normal dogs of the same size and look?

If your actions show the dogs the world is to be feared then it will be fearful. There is nothing i dislike more than seeing a little dog shaking and quivering, utter patheticness and i lose any sympathy for them. I was in Wilkos the other dog getting some bits for my puppy packs and there was a teenager in there with a chi in her bag, felt myself looking at her with the same disdain as for a pregnant person woman smoking or drinking. My frenchies came in my bag as little pups to be concealed whilst i went in a shop when we were doing social town visits. When in shops unless they sell food i dont see them problem with carrying a dog in. Dogs are people too lol

There is nothing i dislike more than seeing a little dog shaking and quivering, utter patheticness and i lose any sympathy for them.

A bit harsh to say the least as it isn't the DOG'S fault but the owner's!!!!

I have a small breed and this weekend we were at a show, she had a good play with her Beardie pal (who is always polite and lays down to greet her), but when we came to a large group of Mastiffs she was completely bewildered. Of course she was, she'd never seen a dog that large before apart from at work (grooming salon) where she likes to get up on the table when they're being dried and sit beneath them! But she said hello and went on her way. Her mother on the other hand is very frightened of large dogs! When she was ten weeks old I carried her to our local park where so many large breeds came and jumped up at me, smashing their faces against her and scaring the life out of her, I could barely get them off me let alone try and protect my puppy. From there on she was always being smacked or bashed or chased by large breeds and it hasn't helped her at all. I'm more experienced now and took more care with her daughter, but it has caused irreversible damage, now she barks at large breeds before she greets them and it's very annoying. Thankfully she doesn't really mind when she's greeted them and seen me greeting them, after that she calms and we can continue on our walk. Only large breeds, Lab size and upwards. I'm sure many people see us and think 'Well there's another small dog with small dog syndrome.' but she's the best behaved mite on walks apart from the barking at bigger dogs, she's beautiful off lead and is a real dog, no handbags or such for her. But because she's 13 inches tall and frightened of large dogs, we get the stigma attached to us, and it's not fair.

No it wasn't intentional, but I would have liked to hear that she had tried a behavourist (maybe she did, but it wasn't mentioned) rather than just have her saying she couldn't do anything about the biting and dumping him. But at least he found a smaller rescue that could cope and help him in the end.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">There is nothing i dislike more than seeing a little dog shaking and quivering, utter patheticness and i lose any sympathy for them

Bit strong isnt it??!!!!

>When she was ten weeks old I carried her to our local park where so many large breeds came and jumped up at me,

Unfortunately that's what happens when dogs are carried - other dogs are curious and have to jump up to 'meet and greet', and of course it looks scary to have a dog jumping at you. A puppy on the ground won't get jumped up at ...

I suppose, but i think what drew me to big dogs. Now having little dogs too I dont want them to be fearful but they have bit dogs at home so are not frightened of them. I just worry about the staffies that hang around in the town centre without a lead and a drunk for an owner.

I suppose, but i think what drew me to big dogs.

I might as well say I prefer tiny dogs because I can't stand the sight of pathetic big slobbery dogs with big hanging teats and skeletal bodies as they have been bred too much -it's no more THEIR fault than it is the fault of the dog if a tiny dog is nervous and shaking......and you can't really compare a great big hulking heavy French Bulldog with a Chihuahua or Papillon at 1-3 kgs, it's a world of difference.

A puppy on the ground won't get jumped up at ...

No, but unless you KNOW the bigger dog really well, you're not going to risk the small pup getting killed just to socialise. It's a two edged sword for sure!

That's why you need to be very careful (with all puppies, not just tiny breeds, because they're all just as immature mentally and easily scared as each other) where you take them for early socialisation.

Yes JG but my point is, it's MUCH harder to find suitable bigger dogs for a tiny pup weighing a pound, than it is for a bigger pup that won't break legs, neck or spine as easily just from a playful paw. I am so glad I have my own big dogs for it.

Vets usually know of good, safe, healthy dogs. :-)

She hadn't had all of her vaccinations Jean, she was carried from 8 weeks to 10 weeks until she was safe on the ground...from there she was bombarded. Even at Ringcraft, where you would think the larger dogs were better behaved, she was pounced at and no one stopped their dogs from doing so to her. I don't believe in hurting a dog just to make sure it's socialised. This time I was smarter and her daughter ONLY socialised with well behaved larger dogs at Ringcraft, I kept her well clear of some of the larger breeds that the owners had no control over, and she is a star with big breeds now.

Do you think, with hindsight, that taking her to the park with loose dogs (some of whom might be harbouring disease and she wasn't fully vaccinated) might have been a bad idea, and that taking her where dogs were at a safer (healthwise) distance to begin with might have been better? In fact, the way you sensibly did with her daughter? I'm not having a go at you, but it's not fair to blame dogs, big or small, for jumping up to try to sniff a dog that's being carried.

My 12 year old Ripley, who was shown for 11 years, is pretty much bombproof, SHE gets wary if we have to walk closely past a giant breed at shows. There have just never been any St Bernards or similar sized dogs for us to regularly meet and so she was a few years old the first time she saw one at a show

I used to have a Lab/Cocker lot of years ago, walking down road, got to the corner and she came face to face with an OES coming the other way , She was surprised more than scared as she wasn't even sure it WAS a dog until she had chance to have a sniff and then say hello :-D She was about 4 or 5 and had never seen one before.

I remember my 8-month Clover getting really excited at a show when she thought she'd spotted (no pun intended!) another dal lying down. She was rather startled when the harli Dane stood up to greet her - a bit bigger than she'd expected! They got on fine though. :-)

I don't at all blame the dogs; I blame their owners for not controlling them. Of course dogs are curious but this wasn't just a leap up and sniff, I was nearly bowled over and no one stopped their dogs from leaping on me and my puppy.
As for hindsight, I certainly didn't expect to be mounted by every dog I saw when I left the house with her in my arms, I've always been advised to take a puppy out in my arms when they're that little to socialise. Going to the park was just en route to be honest with you, I wanted her to see the other dogs by sight and smell before she was ready to go down to meet them, and there were lots of children at the park too. I realise you're not having a go but to insinuate it's *my* fault for walking through a park and being mauled for my puppy by dogs that had no manners and no owners with sense is hardly fair either. I carried her because she was not medically ok to go on the floor year, that's the only point I was making, and as a result I have a problem now. If anything I'm agreeing that you should carry your dog about because something like that could happen, in hindsight I now carry a Evian air spray with me. :)

I just mentioned the other day, when do large dogs that live with small dog realise their size?  My GSD is 10 months now and I swear she thinks she's a spaniel.  She squeezes into the tiny bed bed and piles on top of them.  She squuezes into the smallest of gaps on the sofa.  She bombs through the tiny gaps in the bushes/fences that the spaniels do(wrecking the 'small' space).  She really has no concept of size.  And even though she is a big dog, she's not keen on other big dogs as most of her friends are teeny!!  Talk about body dismorphia!lol

My GSD is 10 months now and I swear she thinks she's a spaniel.

Oh I have a 2 year old Malinois who is convinced she is a Papillon -to the extent that she always sits on our laps!! LOL.

Shocking.  My mum has Pomeranian's and they are brought up safely with my Spanish.  We have a fairly newly imported Pomeranian and he is such a character.  He and my Spanish get on so well. My mum and dad have one of my dogs and he's started copying her when she lies on her back and waves.  He also tries to pinch her toys off her etc.  I don't understand these people who carry toy breeds around.

What I find sad, as a trainer, is when the majority of small dog owners only do one course at club. They seem to take the view, 'Well, we've made the effort and they're only going to be small so don't need the same amount of training as a larger dog'. Very sad. There are exceptions, of course. Have had a fabby Bichon bitch who got her Gold Good Cits and I'm still in touch with her owner six years later.

>I realise you're not having a go but to insinuate it's *my* fault for walking through a park and being mauled for my puppy by dogs that had no manners and no owners with sense is hardly fair either.

I'm pleased you realise that I'm not being nasty; I made a similar mistake carrying my 9 week pup past the junior school, not realising it was home-time, and we got swooped on by what seemed like hundreds of squealing children, and she got spooked, even though she was in my arms. As a result she's not keen on children coming close, especially if they're talking. My fault entirely! My next pup won't be put in that position.