I am looking for a new pup to join our family. 

I have had golden retrievers for years - I have recently lost my old girl but have two of her daughters and her grandson.  I really feel the need for a pup but don't want another goldie as it will feel wrong - in fact I want a black dog so that it will be completely different and I can love it in his or her own right.  I have done some obedience before and would like a pup that I could compete with in the future.  I would be happy with a crossbreed but don't know where to look for a well brought up crossbreed, which is making me think that I should look for a pedigree - my thought processes are all over the place at the moment!

Sorry about the rambling - any ideas?!

I understand the need to have a different breed.  I lost a blue merle Border Collie who was my soul mate, and I just couldn't have any dog replace him.  As years passed, I ended up with 2 Bearded Collie bitches.  After 13 years I was able to look at BC boys again, but couldn't have another merle.  I now have a red/white boy, and he isn't a "replacement."  I do know exactly what you mean.

Have you thought about a flatcoat?

Think I would suggest a Flatcoat. Sorry to hear about your loss I am sure a different gundog would suit you, similar but very different.

If you'd consider a crossbreed, I think you really should go and take a look at some rescue centres.  Rescues are overflowing with dogs and anyone who might consider one should be encouraged.  Whenever I get people saying 'I might get a pup or a rescue, but I think I should get a pup', I always encourage them to consider rescues. 

Every dog in a rescue is going to be an individual proposition, so your best bet is to find a reputable rescue which knows its dogs and to take the dog for a walk before bringing it home.  If you discover something you really can't manage in the dog, you can always take it back to the rescue - and it will end up in no worse a situation than it was, before.  That's more than can be said for a puppy.

What about a GSD?  Brains and agility.  I love the goldies but couldn't be doing with the hair.  I have a longcoat GSD which don't cast like the shortcoated.  She is well-bred agility lines.
If you would like to go smaller, what about a spaniel?  I love the springers but own cockers too(for my sins!lol)
I have a friend that has a boy red setter.  LOVE HIM!
My In-laws recently bought a little crossbreed puppy which was raised properly(well, as good as they can be when being bred purposely).  It just takes finding a caring owner that cares about her little bitch.  Also, some dog homes have pups in occassionally.

you could also consider a curly coated retriever, similar but not the same... I love the flat coats though :-) What about a labrador?

Whatever you choose, pick a good breeder :-)

Hi

I have enjoyed the companionship of flatcoats and goldies for many years. I had goldies first and flatcoats as a second breed. Flatcoats are very different and need firm, sensitive handling. In my experience I would say they are sharper and learn quickly (good and bad things!) they can be very mischievous and you have to be one jump ahead. They are great fun and very loving.
    
I think the two breeds compliment each other wonderfully well. They are not everyones cup of tea and if you are not very familiar with flatcoats, I would always recommend a visit to a lovely exhuberant flatcoat family to see just how lively and loving they are! Some do lick a lot!!  Good luck with finding your new baby and have fun deciding on a breed.  :)

Thank you all very much for your kind comments.  I am very tempted by flatcoats but unsure still - I will keep thinking and listening to your comments!

I agree with bestdogs, Flatties and Goldies do complement each other, and my Goldies best friends are Flatcoats, they play beautifully together and have great fun. I know a number of people who have the same combination.

what are your queries about flatcoast. I am sure we can answer and questions then you can either tick that one off or go? for it.? yes amnother one who is biased I originally went for a flat coat as I liked certain things about the goldie but wasnt completly sure. The flat coat for me fitted exactly what I wanted . My hisbands family have always had goldies.
Positives fcr  family friendly  ( says it all really ), medium sized, easily trainable , multi purposel fun loving
Negatives can be stubborn , mischevious if thats a negative , food driven (thats good and bad) , some find their exuberance to much

Another Flatcoat fan here!
As others have said, they can be very full on and some people find that a bit wearing. An untrained, under-exercised Flattie would be a nightmare, but that is true of many breeds!  However they definitely have an 'off switch' and in my experience really want to please and love having something to do.  They have loads of energy which needs channeling.  Ours will have a go at anything and want to be involved in whatever you are doing.  They are very loving (to everyone and everything!) & very funny - they make us laugh every day.

I so agree with what others have said - sensitive but firm handling is needed and you have to work at being one step ahead of them - they are clever.  I find them a delight to live with and very accommodating to flexible routines as long as they have their training and their exercise.  And they do sleep a lot too!

You have probably gathered that I'm a bit biased!
Best of luck with your decisions and your search for your new family member.

I was going to suggest a Flatcoat or black Lab too! :-)

Black pug something completely different and a baby to the family

I would suggest a day out at the next Discover Dogs - not sure when it is but I have a feeling there is one in the Autumn sometime.  I have an adored old Goldie myself and I doubt I will ever have another for the same reasons as yourself.  However I also now have two HWVs, mother and daughter - fabulous dogs!

Discover Dogs 2012 is 10-11 November:  http://www.discoverdogs.org.uk

Well if we are going to be suggesting smaller and black then why not a bl/cream/tan mini long dachsie or bl/tan standard long dachsie[the latter only comes in bl/tan or red, not the colour pattern variation in this country that can be seen in others as they still Xbreed the sizes]

If the OP does not want to stick with the gundogs how about a Newfie, always think there is a similarity in the head, but I may be mad, it has been suggested.

> Well if we are going to be suggesting smaller and black then why not a bl/cream/tan mini long dachsie

The temptation in these threads is always to suggest our own breeds, but would you really suggest a dachshund to someone wanting to compete in obedience :-D

> in fact I want a black dog so that it will be completely different and I can love it in his or her own right

I have a friend who has black standards and one toy poodles and they are fantastic at obedience and agility believe it or not!  Kept in a plain trim (done at the local groomer) so nothing fancy, very easy to maintain.  Great characters.

Dachsies are not known for participating in obedience but I am sure they could do it given half a chance.

I added the dachsies when someone mentioned a pug, not seen them in obedience either.

I rather like the large munsterlander also love standard poodles for obedience and could be tempted by one if I were ever to change breeds.

Negatives can be stubborn

i have had flatcoats sin 1981 and never found them in the least bit stubborn, maybe i just got lucky!

whatever you choose, enjoy!

Well, if you want stubborn try my breed, Elkhounds, they are however good at both obedience and agility providing you have the patients to match their stubbornness.

I'd say self willed rather than stubborn, convince them what you want is worth their while/fun and they are more than happy to work with you.

Your right Brainless they are self-willed rather than stubborn, as you say they will do almost anything if they can see a point in it, it is a matter of getting them to do it when you want and not in their own time.

> I rather like the large munsterlander

Yes me too, a very nice breed, and there are plenty of HPR's doing agility and obedience.

Discover Dogs is at Earls Court on 10th 11th November if you want to fine tune your list or narrow down your choices.  'Window shopping' for the right breed should be an enjoyable experience so have fun choosing :)

Once you've narrowed things down a little then you'll need to spend at least as much time again finding the best breeder, or the right rescue.  Good luck with it all

Blay well put I agree totally. Btw they do calm and sleep down my 18 month old has just come back from a 3 hour walk/run in the fields and woods with doggy friends and is now sleeping it off under my bed !!! no I am not in it its her favourite place.
I forgot to add flatcoats tend to be velcro dogs imo

Rather like pointers myself too

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Negatives can be stubborn , mischevious if thats a negative , food driven (thats good and bad) , some find their exuberance to much

Melody are you reading this?  'Food driven'....she must be the oddball then as she is such a picky eater.    Having owned Munsters for many years, I have an 11 month old FCR and she is more immature mentally than a LM would be at the same age.  By 11 months old a Large Munsterlander would be in 'hunt' mode, Melody is just in enthusiastic jumping on everyone 'I love you' mode.  And she mouths still which isn't great for strange people who may think she is biting.  They have no sides to them though, what you see is what you get, they are definitely Peter Pan's of the dog world.

My heart still definitely belongs with Large Munsterlanders, but FCR's are a very nice breed too, but I'm not sure if I would continue with them though.

What about a lurcher? There are plenty of them in rescue, whether you want a pup or an adult, and a lurcher with collie blood may be quite suitable for you? :)

From my own experiences, I wouldn't say flatcoats are stubborn. I would however say, they are very clever dogs and have a tendency to think for themselves and decide their way is best!! Hence the need to be one jump ahead!!  It is true they can be somewhat slow to mature, but for many of us that is part of the joy :)

My lovely first girlie was an angel right from when I had her at 7.5 weeks. She seemed to just be born sensible and never put a foot wrong. My then goldie could be a little monkey, but she never copied him and used to look at me as much to say ' he is soo naughty mum- I would never do that would I?!!'  I still miss her and her super character.

Thank you all!  I think my shortlist is either a black lab (had one when my children were tiny) or lab x collie - I have found a litter that seems really nice.  Am really grateful for all your comments - hadn't thought of the munsterlander!  If I go for a lab, I would welcome any thoughts on good breeders - would probably want to go for working type rather than show - pms welcome!

>and one toy poodles and they are fantastic at obedience and agility believe it or not!

Yes, I believe very much.  Having owned a Toy Poodle who actually demonstrated the "leave" for Border Collies in the baby classes.

And went on to adore tracking.  I loved seeing the look on the faces of people who thought she was a lap dog.  Okay, I admit that I worked her in full show coat, just to show that I could!  :-)

People do tend to underestimate the intelligence of Toy Poodles. 

>Some do lick a lot!!

It's love or hate for this trait.  And it's one reason that I would consider a flattie for myself.  Not understanding why people don't like it!

I LOVE dogs that lick me.

So do I! Especially my feet !!! My idea of heaven- A goldie happily licking one foot and a flatcoat licking the other one!!! :)

> Especially my feet !!! My idea of heaven

Not breed specific.... my BSD Groenendael x working sheepdog LOVES cleaning my feet, and being a very intelligent dog has worked out all manner of tricks and wiles designed to make me shuck my shoes :)

My oldest Jozi loves to lick your feet and give you a pedicure.  The new baby Peni has inherited this trait from her great grandmother and at only 3 months is very gentle.