I wonder if anyone has any advice for me.  My sheltie started to put on weight last year when she was 3.  I managed to get her to  lose it but she now has put it all back on again.  I have 4 dogs all of whom are fed separately and the other 3 don't have a weight problem.  This time despite my best efforts I can't get the sheltie to lose the excess weight.  She just has a handful of dried food morning and evening mixed with a small bit of Chappie (she won't eat the dried on its own).  I don't think it helps that she does quite a lot of obedience so I do have to use (limited) treats but I do try to get the low fat variety.  I don't give her any titbits at all.

Does anyone have a foolproof recipe for doggy weight loss?  Is there a low fat dried  food that anyone can recommend or indeed any diet that anyone knows of that works - would be really helpful.

Thanks very much

Snowflake

> Is there a low fat dried  food that anyone can recommend

Yes, there is, but I took Brainless' advice years ago when I had this problem.  She told me to feed even less of the normal dry food that I used, and bulk out with assorted cooked vegetables, so dog wasn't starving.  Slow loss, but definitely worked.  Barbara said it was daft paying extra for a "diet" food and I see why now.

I'm a cruel owner!  Mine hardly ever get "treats", and like you I only ever use tempting stuff when training.

A handful might be too much tbh - my labrador only gets a handful of dried stuff morning and evening :-)

What dry food do you feed her?  That can make a big difference.  With Saffi, she lost weight with dried chappie, although that doesn't work so well now; but I'm having good success this time with Burns (a handful with Chappie per meal), it's a fair bit less dense than other foods so the dog still gets the same volume but less food by weight.  Certainly keeps Saffi's hunger at bay, and that's saying something!

Failing that, she will lose on a bit of Chappie (or other tinned meat) mixed with veg - green beans work well.

What treats do you use for training?  Some things seem like a good option but might not be.  And a lot of dogs will work for things like bits of apple or carrot.

How much exercise does she get and what sort?

If all of that is sound and you just can't get the weight off, it might be worth considering another factor such as her thyroid as that being low will impede weight loss/cause weight gain.

Less kibble[senior] bulked up with frozen sliced runner beans has worked for me in the past with my cockers.

avoid 'low fat' anything for dogs as they have a different digestive system to us* - fat is fuel and carbohydrates will put weight on them instantly.. so avoid kibble with rice and potatoes if you can... best to offer as others have suggested cooked or raw veg, but avoid high carb/sugar veg like carrots and apples for the same reason.... I found with my podgy dogs that to half their kibble and replace with veg worked wonders, they don't feel so hungry... with treats, avoid low fat and give either protein or veg :-)

*some dogs have a 'fat' digestion problem, but this is rare

Cut the food in half.  If she doesn't eat the dry without a tempter, then she isn't hungry/greedy so leave the tempter out.

It's quite simple she needs less food than she is getting.

The only way I have found to shift the weight is half the amount of good food.  Using the diet foods I have found they loose condition (especially coats), as they are usually lower fat and protein, and bulked out with fibre, cheaper to use low cal veg (green beans etc), which at least has some vitamin content.

> Does anyone have a foolproof recipe for doggy weight loss?

Yes, feed them less. It's simple :-) My 2 collies only get a handful of dry food twice a day, they get a lot of exercise so that seems far too much for a sheltie. But regardless of how much anyone else feeds if your dog is overweight it's getting too much to eat. Half the amount, if that doesn't work half it again.

Good post Brainless. I would also cut the food in half and was also going to say to stop adding the wet food to tempt her to eat. Why tempt her to eat when you are trying to lose weight? If she doesn't want the dry food she isn't hungry and will eat it when she is.

Some dogs genuinely do not like plain dry food and won't eat it unless they are literally starving - I see no problem with adding wet food as long as it is taken into account for the diet.  I do for Phoebe, she just does not like plain dry food.

I would also cut the food down by half but still continue to add wet as I know from my own dogs that they will not eat purely dry.Butcher's tripe original mix is what I add and It really is only a tiny amount  of one forkful for each cav and 2 teaspoons for the chins.

personally I wouldn't bother to buy a specialist light food but use what he is on now,reduced by half and you should see results within a month.As for training treats use tiny amounts of cheese,liver,chicken etc rather than dog treats as they are much higher in fat.

I have been using Applaws Lite for a while and am really impressed so far.

I'm with the others.  When mine gain the pounds, I cut the food and up the exercise(for both them and me!!lol). 

> Does anyone have a foolproof recipe for doggy weight loss?

Eat less, move more - it really is that simple

Kibble is a very dense food so a reduced portion really can look like nothing much at all but stick with it.  Weigh each meal to be sure you're getting it exactly right as guestimates can be 'out' by as much as 30/50g.  Once you've hit the right weight for your dog then small adjustments of 5/10g of kibble per day will be enough to keep her weight constant.

Finally if using Chappie, or other topper, measure that out precisely too and add some warm water to make it go further.  If you mix it thoroughly at least 10 minutes before feeding it helps to infuse the kibble with a bit of extra flavour which can make it a bit more appealing to dogs that don't want plain kibble.  Also, don't forget that you can freeze tinned meats if you're only giving small amounts each day.  Use silicone trays designed for ice cubes or cup cakes depending on the portion size you want

May I firstly say that I am not trying to upset or tell anyone how to feed their dogs!! This is just my view with regards our overweight pets!
We as responsible owners should be in total controll of our dogs weight.
If our dog is extremely thin then then we give more whereas if our dog is "fat" we should cut the quantity back and feed less in volume.
We should not have to rely on the manufacturers to provide yet more "expensive" special diets. Unfortunately most veterinary surgerys an all supermarkets promote the dry complete feeds. We (and this includes the veterinary profession) are "conditioned" into believeing that complete dry food is the best! CONVENIENT comes to mind here and yes I have used it myself and still do from time to time in very tiny ammounts again convenient! .
Tinned meat has a content of aproximately 80% moisture, if everyone added this ammount of moisture to their dry kibble and alloud it to swell up we would see just how big a meal we are giving our pets. Every kibble or reward/tit bit should be accounted for throughout the day and considered as part of the daily food intake, this all contributes to in many cases an already overweight dogs daily food consumption.     
None of our dogs have to hunt for their food or find a dry den to live in and water is always "on tap". We supply them with everything for an easy life and this in many cases is means too much food. Overweight  pets need less of what they are being given to eat. If we are feeling guilty about the small volume/quantity we are giving then I believe in bulking out with some good fresh veg. 
I am a very firm believer in natural fresh meat feeding, but that again is another subject..

If the dog's really not happy with a teeny amount of kibble you could soak it for a few hours before a meal too - I've found this handy in th epast for filling the dog up a bit more (for Remy, who wouldn't eat a vegetable if his life depended on it!).

> We as responsible owners should be in total controll of our dogs weight

I feel that one problem is that owners just give their dog the same amount of food every day without checking on a regular basis that the dog isn't getting thinner/fatter. One of the most useful tips I was given many years ago was to 'feel' my dogs on a regular basis and by doing this recognising whether the amount of food should be increased/decreased. Also, one of my dogs has to have less food in the summer as she is less active when the weather is warm :)

Yes get into the habit of checking the dogs once a week, ideal time is when grooming. 

Far easier on everyone to make small adjustments than to have to decrease/increase food drastically.

A lot of people have no idea what a fit dog should look and feel like as we are getting so used to seeing them fat and unfit.

Absolutely Brainless!

In addition, "a handful" of food is a meaningless measurement, big hands? small hands? .  Sometimes it will be more, sometimes even more and sometimes less, but rarely, as most people have no idea how concentrated dry food is and how little a dog actually needs to eat to be fit and not put on weight.

One of the easiest ways of ensuring your dog is getting the right amount is to measure it.  Measuring cups can be had at most Vets and at PAH, but it's easy enough to get a cheap plastic cup, weigh the food and mark a line on the cup.  It's then easier to either decrease or increase the ration :-D

Another problem is that most dry food manufacturers state amounts to feed that are far higher than most dogs need ;) 

I do feel the Kennel club is letting us down here as well, they no longer have a weight guide on most of their breed standards, so owners have no idea of the weight range for their breed :(

Regarding reducing the ration, I found that soaking the kibble made it more filling, there's no need to pay twice as much for half the nutrients as marketed by dog food manufacturers ;)

My friends think I'm really mean as I never add anything to 'tempt' if one of my dogs refuses their food.  My attitude has always been that if they are hungry they'll eat, if they aren't they won't.  Much easier to avoid weight problems that way;)  They do get treats, but I always take out the same amount of food to compensate ;)

> I do feel the Kennel club is letting us down here as well, they no longer have a weight guide on most of their breed standards, so owners have no idea of the weight range for their breed :-(

Yes, that is very annoying - I had to do a bit of searching to get an idea of what weight Logan (min pin) should be as I'm used to large dogs (and he's a smidge overweight)!

I'm trying Nature Diet Senior on my 6yr old speyed Sheltie girl, she is a kilo over weight, it looks as though it may be working, her treats are out and green beans are in

Thanks all for your good advice.  I have now started a new "regime" and Isla my sheltie is now getting half of the kibble she had before.  Also I have bought some JWB Ocean Fish which all my dogs seem to like.  I am adding a bit of cooked plain chicken to Isla's food.  The amount of kibble I gave her before was as stated on the dog food packet - there must be a lot of overweight dogs around!  I am also going to try cooked veg with the kibble.

The only trouble is she does a lot of obedience and I train her for a short time each day - she loves it.  But it does mean giving treats.  One of you suggested cheese (I can't see her eating raw veg) which she loves but I stopped it as I assumed it was very fattening.  I will try pieces of JWB kibble and see how that goes (obviously calculating that when feeding her).  I can't really take chicken to training sessions,  too messy.  Those with skinny Border Collies take sausages but they are hugely fattening!  I think Coachies are low in fat,  but quite expensive to keep buying.

Thanks for you help.

Snowflake

You could always hold back enough of her meal to use as treats for training - that way she is still getting her food but not receiving any extra treats.

> it does mean giving treats

Create a box of pea sized mixed treats for training.  Add mostly dry plain small biscuits (not kibble), then add some of the following: a slightly crushed clove of garlic, hard cheese, garlic sausage, ham or chicken, and liver treats.  Leave very damp meat to air dry in the fridge for 12-24 hours to reduce the water content and the mess, but add the oily foods immediately.  Shake the box and allow it to come to room temperature before using.

Combining taste and texture in this way ensures that your dog doesn't know what is coming next.  More importantly, that the plain (low cal) foods are suffused with the taste and smell of the stronger more interesting stuff - just take care to remove the crushed garlic clove before feeding!

You might need to experiment and reduce the quantities of anything she doesn't respond to or increase the time it sits in the box to improve the flavour and smell.  Hope this helps :)

I have a tub of these Liver treats which I use to reward my dogs when clipping nails/grooming. They are tiny and my dogs are very happy to receive just one :)

The training club that I used to go to didn't encourage food treats but preferred a high value toy instead.

Snowflake, My dogs absolutely love raw carrot, apple and bananna, have you ever tried Isla on any of these ?

None of our vegetable or unwanted fruits go to waste, the dogs love them all, when we are at the kitchen sink preparing our veg the dogs all sit and wait for any peel, carrot, potato, parsnip or pieces of veg that we don't use. Fortunately our puppies copy their elders and realise that this raw veg thing is good.
Any leftover cooked veg is added to their daily meal.

Instead of buying treats why not use her food? If she eats a cup in a day for her weight and you use half a cup for training then she only gets half a cup
at meal time.
Or is there anything else that gets her motivated besides food? Moose can go food or a ball- I am choosing the ball- seems to work great.

My bostons' don't care to eat their dry food at breakfast which I always offer and since I always mix stuff in with supper they do eat at supper. So they
go with out all day. I do give them all half a bony in the morning and that's it.

I would offer her her food- she don't eat pick it up and she goes with out till the next meal- was told that on here and it has worked my boston's at ages 12 1/2 &
11 1/2 yrs old are now schedule fed.

I too give mine veggies and fruit all the time. Have also found a very good dog food they don't gain the weight- I make sure mine has at least  3 1st ingredients
being meat- plus I give them dehydrated food added in as well at supper Pure Performance http://k9rawdiet.com/Grandma-Lucys-Pure-Performance-Freeze-Dried-Rabbit-Dog-Food-grain-free-10-lbs-makes-51-lbs-pr-337.html . dry food I usually buy Logic, Epigen, Taste of The Wild, Back to Basics
and have just started buying DNA http://www.dnapetfood.com/  I buy a different bag each time I need more. Plus I walk Moose about 8-9 km everyday- the boston's walk about 2-3 km everyday (very proud they use to only walk a block) then we go to the park and I throw the ball for them which they really look forward to. They do get a lot of exercise which we built up over the summer.

Winter will be fun- I have to get winter clothes cause she can't go with out her exercise. I believe proper feeding amount and exercise is def key to losing weight- just like us humans. I even found with all the
walking I have been doing my muffin top has gone down and I feel a lot better. Due to hubby's bike accident yrs back- broken ankle we didn't walk much but now we are back up there and I really enjoy it!

I use extra mature cheddar as you only need a tiny piece to get the taste, I think you can get low fat versions too now, cut into tiny cubes before hand so you are not tempted to be over generous.

Carrot,apple and banana contain sugar so not low calorie.

Kibble and runner beans may work for some as part of a dogs diet, but there is nothing unnatural, man made or unhealthy in carrots, apples or bananas in small ammounts  as little rewards during training if your dog likes them !!!  Bananas can be a bit squishy though and extra mature cheese, that certainaly is not low calorie!

The calories in raw carrot aren't that readily available either - the cell walls have to be broken down and as dogs often don't chew when training through excitement, and AFAIK don't have cellulase to break those walls down, they won't get much calorific value from them.

Wee man that is why I mentioned low fat mature cheddar, 30% less fat than normal mature cheddar. I used standard mature cheddar back when I was trying to lose weight, the stronger flavour meant you used less to get a better taste than low fat cheese that had no taste.

My house training treat of choice kept just for that purpose is mature cheddar, my dachsies don't have an issue with their weight being too high and a tiny cube goes a long way when it comes to taste, tried other cheeses and they act like they haven't had any and are looking for more.

The look on Otto's face as he spits out his carrot 'treat' is wonderful, comes rushing up full of anticipation, wolfs it down then realisation, eyes look up at me full of disgust & he spits it at me

> The only trouble is she does a lot of obedience and I train her for a short time each day - she loves it.  But it does mean giving treats.  One of you suggested cheese

Buster has to be kept on the leanest side of a healthy weight, due to bad elbows. Up untill he was about 9 mpnths old, the ONLY training treats he had were peices of kibble taken out of his daily food ration. Sloly I introduced cheese as a training treat.
Training treats - whatever they are, will not lead to weight gain if they are factored into the dogs daily food rations eg. do a lot of trainig/use a lot of treats in a day = cut the meal(s) down for that day.
Also, training treats do NOT have to be of a 'snack size'. Buster is 14 stone in weight, any cheese used for rewards is cut up into small cubes - about the size of HALF a peanut. If you can but then up smaller than this then do so, food reards are not about feeding the dog, it's the process of getting a tasty tit-bit that does it, so it' can be a tiny morsel.
I have actually trained a new trick using SINGLE GRAINS OF COOKED RICE!!!! It took 5 repeats with a single grain of rice as a reward to teach Buster to blow a kiss :-D

Do you add any flavour when cooking the rice or use flavoured microwave rice?

> Do you add any flavour when cooking the rice or use flavoured microwave rice?

It was plain bolied rice, but the catch was, it was left-overs from my own plate, anything from a plate any of us humans have eaten off has extra special value for Buster.

ETA, Buster has cottoned on to the learning of tricks process, if I have something he wants and the usual offering of tricks doesn't get him it (and I give verbal encouragement for him to keep trying, rather than get him to stop), he'll try to think of new ways to do a trick. The blowing of a kiss was a new take on licking my hand, only he wasn't touching my hand and he never put his tounge out, just started to so it made a 'kiss' noise as he put his face towards me. Gave him a grain of rice off my plate for it, so he did it again. A few repeats and I added the word 'cute' so now he'll 'blow a kiss' for the word 'cute' (he'll also 'blow a kiss' to try to scav for things - It's hard to stop as everyone finds it so endearing they give him a treat for it).

AAAH I see.

Crumbs Mastifflover, Buster is a big boy!! 

I am now well into the skinny rations for Isla, half the kibble plus bit of chicken or veg.  Still looking fat of course but hopefully in a couple of weeks the outline could be slimmer!

Saw Isla's breeder at the weekend who said she goes to Farm Foods for her bait (she does showing) and buys their packets of frozen chicken strips.  I have now bought some and used them for dog training tonight.  Less messy than cooking it yourself and as it is firmer you can break it up into very small bits.  You can just get the amount you need from the packet and  put it back in the freezer. Too dear to use for every day training but quite good for more important events and not fattening.

Thanks for your help, the posts have been really enjoyable to read and so helpful - and nice to know one is not alone with a (lovely) fatty!!

Snowflake