my sister has been waiting for a long time now for a puppy from a breeder but a few weeks ago the breeder contacted her to say the bitch was not pregnant and had missed,well she has just had a call to say she has surprised her with 3 puppies she never kne she was having.she has apparently no signs,no tummy,no change in nipples much at all.i think this sounds a bit strange and am worried my sister is being offered a pup from a different bitch although this breeder is very well known and has a good reputation so i doubt she would do that,has anyone heard of this happening?

Plenty of scans have said no pups and hey presto there they are........... :-)

Dams have shown no sign of pregnancy, pups can hide behind ribs and particularly with maidens no other signs may show. So yes, perfectly feasible.

Of course cynically there could be other reasons, but if the breeder has a good reputation and is well known there is no reason to suggest it is not 100% true. :-)

Ok you have a suspicion so what has made you think that ? Did your sister say there where other bitches expecting litters ?

no reason really just hadnt heard of a bitch having no signs at all.i dont breed but i have a very good friend who breeds and shows and 2 relatives do too.no scan was done because thats the first thing my sister asked when she said she had missed.

Bit risky to say categorically no pups without a scan? But I guess if she is experienced perhaps maybe palps herself etc she may have thought that she knew all the signs and is as surprised as your sister that she was actually in whelp. I take it this is a show breeder when you say well known and not just someone who breeds a lot of litters?

yes a show breeder although my sisters only looking for a pet but wanted a pup from this lady because of her reputation

yes a show breeder although my sisters only looking for a pet but wanted a pup from this lady because of her reputation

Well, as these things can and do happen looks like she has been lucky to have a pup from the breeder after all, by all means go and see, if any alarm bells ring whilst there step back, the dam will be showing signs of lactating if your not sure she is the dam, so that will be easy to see whilst visiting and should then put your mind at rest. :-)

Well done in questioning, wish more people did, but hopefully it is just a happy ending none of you thought was happening.

If after the visit (generally at 4 weeks) or prior if there is anything else worrying you, we are here. :-)

I can't really see any reason for her to be lying.  If it was another bitch I think she would just say so wouldn't she?
My guess is your sister has sought out a good breeder that has a litter when she wanted it rather than a particular bitch.

>just hadnt heard of a bitch having no signs at all

I had a bitch who didn't look in the least pregnant (I don't scan from choice.)

Her pups moved down from under the ribcage less than 24 hours before she whelped.  It is not rare for this to happen, even if you haven't heard of it. 

This happened to one of my bitches last year, I was positive she was not pregnant, as was the vet.  No signs at all.  On what should  have been her due date she presented me with 2 lovely pups with no trouble at all - shortest labour ever too - both pups born within 15 minutes!

Yes, it was 2 pups in this case as well.  So plenty of chance for them to stay hidden!  :-)

yes the breeder said these pups mustve been hiding then said that looking back although she didnt have a tummy her ribcage had seemed wider but she just thought that perhaps it was just wishful thinking so maby the pups were in the ribcage,is that possible?

Bigger breeds  with a small litter can easily keep them hidden in the ribs till the last moment.

> her ribcage had seemed wide

This is one of the clues I look for.  It's not only possible, but perfectly normal.  Hidden puppies are far more common than you realise.

Ridiculous though it sounds, I have often stood over a dog to view the ribcage from above, as it is far easier to look from above and see what you are looking for.

If the breeder didn't have bitch scanned, and three is a small litter for the bred then perfectly feasible to think she was empty.

bitches that have been scanned and checked by a vet have gone on to produce 6 or more pups.

A friends bitch was scanned checked by the vet and given medication to dry up milk only to go into labour and produce 5 puppies, unfortunately the bitch had no milk for over a week, but came into lactation after that much to the relief of everyone who had been bottle feeding the pups.

My girl had 2 pups in one litter and 1 in the next, neither time did she look any different right up to whelping. The vet palpating and was pretty sure there was a puppy or two each time, and in the last week or so I could sometimes hear tiny heartbeats with a stethescope, but otherwise I would never have known she was pregnant. If this breeder is reputable, I expect it's just one of those things and there shouldn't be a problem. :-)

Barbara

I LOVE your avatar.  :-)  :-)

That's my new baby Peni, my Myka's daughter at 7 1/2 weeks, she was 9 weeks old yesterday.