My local food suppliers have said that Arden Grange is changing.  I just wondered if anyone knew anything more.  They said that a couple of the changes were it was changing to 12kg bags instead of 15kg and that they were changing the ingredients from 'meal' to 'fresh'.

Now it has always been my understanding that 'meal' was the dehydrated meat and that if it was a named meal ie chicken meal, then it was just chicken meat with the water taken out. If the ingredients listed 'Fresh chicken' ie listed with the water still in it, was actually not such a good choice, no matter how good it sounded.  Once the water had been taken out of it during the manufacturing process then there was less volume left, hence it would take it down the list of ingredients.

Does that make any sense?  Can anyone confirm that for me?  If AG are shrinking the bags and decreasing the meat content cleverly disguised as changing from meal to fresh, then Im not sure its such a good buy any more especially if they keep the costs the same as the 15kg bags were.  I can almost see the marketing now, we have improved the meat from meal to fresh hence the bags are more expensive to make.

Yes your right re the ingredient labelling with meal vs fresh.  Ness from AG sometimes posts here so hopefully she will see your post.

I'll ask my friend who works there... Will text her now so she can pick it up in te morning :-)

oh yes please let me know too as have my younsters on AG and they are doing fine on it

Hallo, Yes you ae quite right in that Arden Grange is making a few changes. This is primarily in respect of the new EU labelling legislation, and this means that we (and all other pet food companies who manufacture in the EU) will need to display the information on the packaging in accordance with the new law. Our marketing team decided this was the ideal time to review the recipes and also update the design of the packaging.

First of all, yes we will be producing our retail packs in a new 12kg size. Although there is no "legal standardised size" for bags ~ delivery/export charges, retail space (many other companies now produce 12 or 14kg packs rather than 15kg) and health & safety aspects re lifting heavy parcels were all factors that were taken into account when making this decision. You'll be pleased to know that we will still be producing the 15kg Breeder Bags.

With regard to the inclusion of fresh meat, this will only affect the Mini Lamb and regular Adult Lamb & Rice to any degree. The reason for its inclusion is because the ash in lamb meal has risen to overly high levels, and rather than reduce the total lamb, it was decided than the meal would be reduced and some fresh added to counteract this. The protein content is the same as always ~ 25% achieved by the higher overall total lamb content (up to 40.5% from 30%).

A small amount of fresh chicken has been added to the Performance recipe as this was the only one of our dry products for dogs which didn't include it, and the Weaning Puppy recipe has been altered a little to improve the Ca:P ratio. Other than these diets, the rest remain exactly the same ~ it's just the packaging that has changed.

Some of the vitamin and trace elements are a little different but the recipes have not changed (apart from the Lamb, Performance and Weaning Puppy), the figures have been amended to portray a more accurate representation of what our onging analysis shows (this is something that is inevitable due to soil conditions, variations to livestock feed etc).

You should start to see the new packaging filtering in over the coming months. Stockists and wholesalers are currently being informed.

I hope this helps. If anyone has any particular questions, please can you address them to me at ness@ardengrange.com. I'm on holiday for a few days until Wednesday next week, but in my absence you can always contact our head office (enquiries@ardengrange.com) if you have any urgent enquiries.

Have a good week, Ness at Arden Grange 

PS: I hope the moderators are ok with my response. This is not intended as an advertisement, it's simply to answer some questions and hopefully put minds at rest.

I contacted Arden Grange a few months ago now as all my dogs were having problems after eating AG a food which I have fed for years , weaned litters on it also was very happy to recommend it to puppy buyers as at the time seemed to suit them very well. They were  ear scratching and had tummy rashes, bile sick, upset tums on occasion etc : after a visit to the vet he and I  decided to change the food before any other intervention.. which we did and it all cleared up .... tried them back on the food as it is one of my preferences it all started again . Eventually we had to move on and now feed Naturediet.

I cannot understand why these companies mess about with a product...that many people are happy to buy as it is.

I contacted AG and asked if there had been any changes in the food they took my number and said they would contact me as it was a different person who dealt with my complaint ...... I am still waiting..

I really hope Arden Grange is not going down that route beloved of so many companies of reducing the size of the product and retaining the original price.  This is already bad news for those of us who can't pick up a bag of the product at a local pet store and need to pay a delivery charge for each bag as we will need to place orders more often. If the prices aren't reduced accordingly, I'm afraid I'm going to be looking at alternatives.

Oh no, please don't change the Lamb and rice one, it's the favourite one of all the people I know who use AG. 

Also one that friends rescue dogs with iffy tums have been able to eat, and usually any change in recipes upset.

Having just spoken to my local stockists, it appears that the RRP will be going down roughly in relation to the new size.  The RRP for the 15kg bag is £44 (so £2.93 per kg) and the RRP for the 12kg bag is £35.50 ( so £2.95 per kg).  Obviously different stockists charge differently as I only ever paid £32.99 for the 15kg bag and they cannot tell me yet what they will be charging for the 12kg one.

Apparently breeders bags will still be at 15kg at an RRP of £32.20 and there is a company called Sunnyview Pet Supplies who does free delivery, min order 2 bags. 

Just a bit of a pain that there is a recipe tweak, I have a lurcher that reacts to everything and a lab who although eats everything I put in front of her, doesnt react too well stomach wise to any change.

I suppose if you are currently weaning pups onto the weaning food, might be best to grab hold of enough bags to see you through this litter so that they dont have a change during the weaning process.  I think the change over is imminent.

I wondered if they had changed it as I'd been battling with them to eat it. They were on prestige.  Had to include oils before they stopped turning their heads away.  One had a rash developing which I though was down to a treat.  On Royal cannine at moment.  They were getting loose stools as well.

Pity as i needed the calories for them x

sorry to jump on this thread,but,can someone tell me if the breeders bags contents are different to the same flavour in non breeders bags,as i get brreders bag of lamb and rice from berriewood and the kibble is always almost black in colour and greasy texture,when buying same flavour from pet shop in a normal green bag the biscuits were less greasy and lighter in colour ?
jo

I really wish they wouldn't do this. The Lamb and Rice one is my standby-- most dogs like it, most dogs do well on it. I really hope they don't change it.

Different batches, different storage conditions, perhaps the pet show ones have been hanging around longer and dried out?

> >perhaps the pet show ones have been hanging around longer and dried out?

It does make you wonder as I've never had an oiled bag yet.  Given some samples at Cruft the other year, the dogs gobbled them up.  Bought some on show day and wouldn't touch them.  Wonder if an appitiser was on them or something x

Hallo, sorry for the delay in my reply but I have been away for a few days.
In answer to your queries:-

Reikiangel ~ The samples are exactly the same as the food in the retail packs or breeder bags and nothing is present in the free samples that isn't in the food we sell. Sorry to hear your dogs have lost their appetite for their Arden Grange. If you would like to email me with full details (ness@ardengrange.com) we can look into this closely for you to establish why this might be happening. In answer to your other post; no changes at all have been made to the Prestige. Sorry to hear you have been having problems and I hope we will be able to help.

Joanne 1000 ~ The contents of the retail and breeder bags are the same. Sometimes natural variation to raw materials can cause the food to look visually different but this should not have any adverse effect on palatability or digestibility. If you have any concerns about a particular pack or product then please do contact Penny at our head office who looks after quality control (penny.gallagher@ardengrange.com).

Barbara ~ I am sorry but the change to the Lamb & Rice is out of my control. If you experience any problems, then please do contact us. So far, the feeding trials we have been carrying out on our own dogs have shown that the product is feeding very well indeed. The higher level of lamb should be a good thing, but I do understand the "if it isn't broken why fix it" scenario especially when some of you have sensitive dogs who do not react well even to a subtle change. Regrettably although the present recipe is very popular, to counteract the increasing ash content a change was deemed essential.

Starryeyes ~ I am very sorry to hear that you did not receive a response to your query several months ago. This would not have been intentional. There should not have been any changes to the product back then, and only our Lamb, Performance and Weaning Puppy are going to be affected. If you can email me please I would be very willing to look into the problems experienced and we can assess what ingredients may be present in the Arden Grange but not in the Nature Diet currently fed which might have been responsible for the dogs' symptoms. I am glad they are now fit and well, and don't worry we will not press more Arden Grange food on you if you are happy and the dogs are nicely settled; but we would like to find out why these symptoms arose and also give you the proper reply you have been so patiently awaiting. Again, my email is ness@ardengrange.com.

> Barbara ~ I am sorry but the change to the Lamb & Rice is out of my control. If you experience any problems, then please do contact us. So far, the feeding trials we have been carrying out on our own dogs have shown that the product is feeding very well indeed. The higher level of lamb should be a good thing, but I do understand the "if it isn't broken why fix it" scenario especially when some of you have sensitive dogs who do not react well even to a subtle change. Regrettably although the present recipe is very popular, to counteract the increasing ash content a change was deemed essential.
>

I am sure mine won't mind slight changes as they get some added variety anyway, I was more worried about my friend and her rescue GSD's, always seems to be rescue GSD's that are extra sensitive with their digestion, probably from poor feeding in earlier times.

Just wanted to say 'Thank you' to Ness ~ great post. Wish all companies were this happy to come and clarify :0)

Thank you for your reply, that was a welcome surprise when I just looked.  I will send a an email.  I have notice mine have lost weight since coming off the prestige so would be greatful for any help.  :)

My latest sack of AG lamb and rice is still a 15kg bag but appears slightly different? Drier and smells different and hey presto all four dogs have had horrible slime covered poos and my elderly greyhound diarrhoea.  This is really annoying as they have all previously done very well on this.  Not sure if ingredients have changed? It says min lamb 30% didn't it used to be 26%?

Thank you Ness from Arden Grange for taking the time to clarify and answer queries! I regard Arden Grange customer service very highly especially when my bitch was unwell whilst feeding her litter. Turned out she had a bacterial infection, but Arden Grange were happy to take and test the food she was eating. Ness was really helpful and knowledgeable and helped me out a lot!

As for Lamb & Rice, the two I have on it have had more upsets than usual (previously a vast improvement than on previous brand). It's probably down to the standing water they keep heading towards and leaping about in, obviously ingesting some. Jury is out, but will continue feeding until I'm more certain what's causing it.

Hi streetmutt
My staff had this problem and when taken to the vets they said it was colitis and was told to feed on fish and potato, I also put her on  Tree Barks powder. She has been on AG since old enough to be on adult. We are now using Fish 4 Dogs.
I still have a full bag of AG not sure if to try her on it again or stick to what is helping.
HTH

Nessa

If anyone has any bags of AG which are still in date and nothing wrong with the bags then I'll happily buy them off you. Got no issues with feeding it myself.

Thanks Ness for giving a detailed explanation :-)

Our dogs have been or Arden Grange for 3 years,the boxer and Frenchie are on puppy/junior and the Boston on mini bite lamb and rice,the latest bag was one of the new ones in the change over,from opening the bag it was totally different,the smell was really strong and the colour was dark and the kibble looked larger,you get used to what the food looks like when you see it 4x a day.
Mabel has been really ill since starting this bag a emergency visit to the vets after eating it,she wouldn't stop being sick,the vets run bloods as she was displaying pancreatitis symptoms but they came back as normal as did the other tests. We were told to give her a bland diet for 2 or 3 days the put her back on her Arden Grange which we did only for it to happen all again so se was taken to the vet again who said it could be something in her food as I told him about how different it was. The vet offered me some choices of prescription diets for intestinal problems or to go to the pet shop and buy something similar we went with the Hills Percription diet dried as she needed to eat,we've not looked back since. We were very happy with Arden Grange and didn't want to change at the moment I am in contact with one of Ness's colleagues whose going to look at a sample of the food,they have been very helpful with our problem with the food,it could be that Mabel can't tolerate the change of how the lamb is made up.Thank you to Ness and Penny at Arden Grange

I have found this post very interesting as I have always fed Arden Grange (Lamb & Rice) last june/july one of my dogs started itching mainly around the ears and neck and biting one of his paws.   I have been battling to get it under total control and have been eliminating things from the diet that I thought may have been the culprit.  two weeks ago I decided to stop the Arden Grange (only feed tripe now) and the itching has almost disappeared (not sure how long an allergy to a food takes to clear from a dogs system though) I am now having to look for an alternative food.  I really like Arden Grange all my dogs have been fed on his and my other young dog was reared on it, but something IMO has changed in the lamb & Rice.

Would be interested to hear anyone elses experiences as this post was posted a few months back.

I have fed it for years as well but thought with the changes along with the increase in price was a step too far and have now changed to another product.

Just disappointed that my dog can not eat this now but the itching has just got far too much both for him and me.  :-(

Well I have changed to a much cheaper product (about half the price) the dogs like it, they produce a reasonable quantity of hard dark stools and seem to be holding condition. At one time I may have overlooked this food because it has molasses but the dogs like it and as far as I can see it does them no harm it is Masters Crunch, I think, and costs about £17 per 15kg.

Just taken another look and I do not think it has molasses must have been something else I tried, probably Repnor Gold (which the dog also liked but produced vast amounts of waste)

Hallo Sophie. I am one of the nutrition advisers at Arden Grange. I'm very sorry that your dog experienced an adverse reaction to our Lamb & Rice diet. About the time you noticed the symptoms, the recipe was changed to include fresh lamb as well as the lamb meal (the reason why is further up the thread, and it was the only change to this recipe). The processing does affect the molecular structure of the protein, so this means that on some occasions a dog can eat lamb meal for example but not fresh and vice versa. The increased proportion of lamb may also have meant that the threshold for tolerance to this ingredient was exceeded. The same applies for any protein source and we do come across some cases with dogs being fine on raw chicken for example but any kind of cooked or processed chicken doesn't agree; and again it can also work the other way. This is quite rare but nevertheless possible. Another explanation may be that your dog developed an allergy to an ingredient present in the Lamb & Rice but not in the food you are currently using. It is frustrating when this happens and not nice for the dog, but food allergies can arise in response to any dietary protein (including the protein fraction within any grain even though we largely consider grains a carboydrate source) even if that particular ingredient has never been a problem before. The immune system can be sensitive and if other things have upset it (e.g. summer pollens) then the dog can be a lot more vulnerable to dietary allergies. Vets usually suggest a 3 month trial on a new food to really see if it is helping but it doesn't usually take as long as that for residue to be excreted and for the body to start to benefit if the culprit ingredient/s is eliminated from the diet. I am glad your dog is improving. You are welcome to email me (ness@ardengrange.com) if you want to discuss things in more detail. I don't come on here very often, and as previously mentioned we are not really supposed to because of our commercial interest but in the event of a problem I am always very happy to help. Ness

Thanks Ness for your respone, which does make a lot of sense, I am going to try a fish based alternative food in about a weeks time to see what happens.  I so do like Arden Grange and most of my dogs have been fed it so I have been a bit resistant to change but obviously need to at the moment to see what happens.

Hi Sophie, We do produce two fish based recipes that might be a consideration ~ Sensitive (haddock and potato) or the Salmon & Rice (but this includes chicken meal, so if your dog was fed lamb due to pre-existing issues with chicken then it wouldn't be suitable). The Salmon also includes rice and maize which are 2 staple ingredients of the Lamb, so it might be better to avoid those too just in case the issue wasn't the lamb but a reaction to one of those. There are other good quality fish based diets on the market to look at too of course, but if you would like to try our Sensitive for your dog then please do email me your address and I will send you a trial pack with our compliments. I do understand if you want to try another manufacturer though as not all brands suit all dogs. Once again, sorry your dog has had these itchy problems. Ness

Thanks Ness, I think i will try this other fish based food first, I have used your sensitive before but decided last June he was not putting on enough weight so went back to the rice and lamb as always had very good results on that.  I have foundout that he is a little sensitive to wheat so wheat was taken from the diet about 5 weeks ago (as I thought that was the main problem with the itching) the itching decreased a little but not enough hence why I have taken the AG lamb & rice out and it itching has decreased to almost non existant - so I think i will try this other food for a while to see what happens.    Thank you for your offer, as I have said before I like AG food and always get a good service from you.