Having done quite a lot of research I have come to the conclusion that for various reasons I would like to keep my bitch entire.  So that is my choice & I deal with her seasons responsibly.  But now I would really like to take on a particular rescue dog & not surprisingly the organisation requires her to be neutered (she's still a puppy, so I would be responsible for having it done).

I am interested in a tubal ligation for her - and wondered if anyone knows of any vets not too far out of London who are willing to do this and have experience?

Many thanks.

I have asked around the vets here on Merseyside and haven't found any that do it, I thought that it would become more popular with time but it hasn't.

Good Luck finding a vet in your area.

Couldn't you just ensure that the rescue dog is neutered?  If it were, then nothing could happen between your existing dog and the rescue dog, so I don't see what business of theirs it is, whether she is intact or not?! 

Sometimes I despair at rescues and their policies...

I'm confused - is the rescue requiring you to have your current bitch neutered? Is the rescue a dog or a bitch?

Sorry - I wasn't at all clear.  I have an entire bitch & rescue are requiring that I neuter the rescue bitch that I am considering.  For a variety of reasons I want her to keep her hormones.   The best compromise I can think of is to have her tubes tied (I know she will continue to have seasons).

I don't have the rescue yet - but want to make sure I have a potential vet lined up before I agree to have her.  I don't want to find myself forced into having her spayed if I can't find a vet who can/will do it.

Surely with her womb still left she will be likely to develop pyometra in her older age, not having had pups.

I think there's definitely a case for spaying around 7 years old - but I feel the benefits of the hormones for the years before that outweighs the risk of pyo.  It's a judgement call & I understand some people might feel differently.

By the way - am not sure that having pups protects against Pyo (or does it?)

>am not sure that having pups protects against Pyo (or does it?)

No, it doesn't. The risk is there with every season. Having a litter doesn't decrease the risk at all.

Apparently having a litter does reduce the risk of pyo, but obviously doesn't eliminate it.

That's new to me. Evidence? It certainly becomes more common with age, whether or not a bitch has had a litter.

I haven't an actual academic paper which supports this - I'm not sure if research has been done - but it's commonly known and said to be the case.  IIRC The Book of the Bitch says this, as do many other non-academic sources, ie
http://www.stbernardhealth.co.uk/pyometrainthebitch.htm   "Particularly if she has not been used for breeding..."

A bitch can get Pyo even if she is pregnant so I fail to see how having had a litter affords any protection against it.   We have had urgent messages on CD about it.

It may be "commonly said" or believed that having had a litter protects from Pyo, but this is different to actual evidence that having had a litter protects the bitch ;)  there doesn't seem to be any actual research or evidence ;)

What about a hysterectomy?   (leaving in the ovaries)  this would remove the possibility of Pyo whilst keeping the hormones.   The bitch would go through a 'season' where she had swelling of the vulva but would not bleed or be able to have pups.

That's a thought - and I guess although she would be somewhat attractive, probably less so than if she had the womb in place. 

Although I believe there is some evidence that the 'support' of the womb is important in avoiding spay incontinence.  Anyone got any knowledge of this?

I had a 3 yo small bitch that got pyo on the season straight after having her 2nd (accidental) litter.

edited to add, she didn't have 2 accidental litters, the first one was planned.

I can't say for sure that having a litter reduces the chances of pyo - as I said, clearly - there doesn't seem to be any research on the subject. 

Of course, no matter what happens statistically, there are always exceptions to the rule.  Having children reduces the risk of breast cancer - although of course, some people with children still get breast cancer.

It does make sense to me that the process of having a litter would influence a dog's chances of getting pyo - although, as I said, that's just what is commonly said and I'm not aware of any research.  Of course it's not a reason by itself to breed a litter...

The jury is still out about the reason for spay incontinence:  Some people believe that it is a hormonal issue, so when the ovaries are removed, this is what causes the incontinence.  In which case you should be fine if you leave the ovaries in. 

On the other hand, there are some people who believe the uterus and support is what prevents the incontinence. 

On a different subject, personally - I wouldn't want to have a dog go through a procedure which a vet is not really used to doing.  Vets do gadzillions of routine spay and neuter ops all the time, and they are very used to them and proficient at them.  I would be worried about asking a vet to do a non-routine procedure which s/he doesn't usually do.  I'd probably rather do something routine which isn't exactly what I want than risk a vet attempting something out of the ordinary. 

Yes Rabid - I agree.  That's why I'm asking if anyone knows a vet who has some experience of this.  I don't want my dog operated on by someone not experienced/skilled. 

Maybe I'll have a go at contacting some of the Veterinary clinics who are more specialized/take referrals - or even some Veterinary schools.  Is there a website where I could see what different vets specialise in?

Since she is just a pup why not ask if you can have her spayed when she is 1 yr or 2yr old to allow her to mature some,
cause you don't want to chance urine incontinence. They should no from your other bitch you can guarantee
she will not be bred from and your a very responsible owner.

Just a thought :-) Best of luck

Hi Dollface - actually this is all they ask for.  They just need a letter from the vet to say that it's been done.  But I'd like to leave her entire as far as hormones are concerned.   In addition to what I perceive are the health benefits, as she is long-haired, removing the hormones may make her a bit dry & fluffy.  I am hoping when they see how responsible I am with my bitch & understand that dogs aren't just wandering about in London, that they will let me leave her entire.  Otherwise I think I am in for a rather expensive operation IF I can find someone good to do it.  Shame they can't just inject superglue into the tubes . . .

Best of luck :-)

> The risk is there with every season. Having a litter doesn't decrease the risk at all.

Misinformation - having a litter does reduce the risk of pyo - turns out I did read this somewhere.  Here is the paper:  http://www.vetrepro.cl/dv/Canine_pyometra.pdf

"Many studies indicate an increased incidence of pyometra in nulliparous bitches and in bitches >4 years of age [2]. "