Hi All,

Nando has been on his raw food for nearly a week now. In the morning he gets chicken mince, and in the afternoon he gets turkey. It has a bit of bone in it, however it is mainly a mince.

He has had really bad constipation today, crying when he has been going to the toilet so I'm at a loss. He hasn't had any raw meaty bones. What can I give him to loosen him up a bit?

I have given him a lot of natural yoghurt this morning- is that perhaps the cause? or is it likely a lack of RMBs?

Josh

Chicken mince is generally minced carcass so is very high in bone - turkey mince the same.  Feeding liver after bone is good advice to prevent constipation and veg can help as well

However the best advice I can give is to reduce the amounts of these meats and add in others to balance the amount of bone he's getting.  I defrost enough food for three dogs for two days and use a mix of the following: 2 minced tripe, 2 minced chicken, 2 economy mince (includes lights and offal), and 4 minced meat (either lamb of beef).  Every couple of days I add a little extra liver

Are you adding an oil to his meals parrysite? Also liquidised veggies should help with this. An ouce or so of raw liver will  help too.

I aim to give a range of raw meats over the course of a week. I use tripe, beef & lamb as well as chicken & turkey.

I don't think yogurt would be the cause, live yogurt should be a good thing for the gut. But I wouldn't give him too many extra bones till the constipation settles.

Forgive me if you have researched this already, but have you read up much on the subject of raw feeding? Here's a link that answers lots of FAQs.

I was aware that a lot of bone would cause the constipation, however I didn't expect the mince to contain too much bone. I have researched the topic, and have spoken to Ann Ridyard over the phone who has helped me no end. In fact it was her that suggested turkey and chicken mince to start with. I have blended some veggies for him to add to his tea tonight. Going to add some other varieties of foods to his meals, I just didn't want too much at once.

> I didn't expect the mince to contain too much bone

Chicken and turkey mince can be up to 75% bone apparently - caused terrible constipation in one of my dogs so I went researching :)

If you don't want to add other protein sources just yet you can add some kibble which will help things through a bit

That will explain things then! Shops are all closed now but tomorrow I shall go and get some heart or liver from the butchers. Wil they mince it for me as I won't use a whole one!

I'd try adding in some veg as has already been said. I think you are right not to try too many different foods at once. See what happens tomorrow with his poo, it could also be a matter of getting used to the new kind of poo that is coming through! He won't feel as thirsty now he is on raw so he might not drink enough, added veg will help get some more liquid into him too.

Personally I prefer to stay off minced meat/bone mixes because you don't know whats in there and so I feed carcasses and joints.

If you buy a blob of heart or liver you don't need to mince it, just cut some off and add it in. Some dogs are sensitive about liver though (heart is not counted as offal, its muscle meat) so if you are going to introduce that only give a little bit or you might get the opposite effect!!

Is it not easier to freeze if it's minced, though? He's just had his chicken meal with some veggies (put through my blender first) and a raw egg.

Don't attempt to mince liver - it just goes to a pulp!

I generally do put liver through the food processor as mine aren't keen on it as chunks (and can find the smallest amounts to pull out and leave on the floor!).  I freeze it in silicone muffin trays.  The only liver that mine will eat in chunks - albeit small ones - is chicken liver.

As others have said, heart isn't counted as offal - but muscle meat.  It's also very rich so don't feed too much in one go.

Another option if you want to stick to poultry for the time being is to simply add more meat to the mince.  Have a look for reduced price chicken and turkey in your supermarket, they also generally stock budget or value frozen turkey mince (for human consumption) which won't contain bone.

> I generally do put liver through the food processor as mine aren't keen on it as chunks

I do too - but add carrot as well :) Their preferred way of eating liver :)

Well I imagine it might be easier to freeze condensed blocks of minced meat for space reasons but you can squash, for example, quite a lot of chicken backs into a freezer drawer too, and one of the major benefits of a raw diet is the regular crunching through whole bones. It keeps the teeth clean and gives the dog a workout covering jaws, neck, front legs, paws, pasterns, brain...
But it is best to take it one step at a time because you have to source the goods too!
Fingers crossed for a better poo report tomorrow!

I will give you a poo report tomorrow. He has just had a little bit of flatulence which is not like him at all!

> I will give you a poo report tomorrow.

:)  Looking forward to that :)

> He has just had a little bit of flatulence which is not like him at all!

That's very likely due to the constipation.... both mine are a bit windy if they've had too much bone and are a bit bunged up. Also, as you are starting on this new diet, he'll need a bit of time to get used to it, so it could be the veg if he's not had them before. Things will settle down! One of the great things about raw feeding is the lack of gas.

That is so true the only time my boy has smelly gas is when he has over gorged on bone on our 'butchers day'. Phorrrrr :-(

  Looking forward to that
Looking forward to a poo report! Can't you tell we're all animal lovers here!!!

I told you all the conversations would become poo orientated lol. Good advice given Josh liver or other offal but I find liver is best. Only give a bit though as it can be very explosive. Whispa prefers his liver slightly cooked I use the micro wave he just wont eat it raw. Brooke couldnt careless unsuprisingly.
If handling it is the problem I would close you eyes and put on the rubber gloves lol !! Things will settle dont worry

When we say a little bit.. how little are we talking? A teaspoon? A table spoon?

> A teaspoon? A table spoon?

An ounce or two (in the old money) - I've never really held back on amounts as long as the dog was happy to eat it.... but at the same time, not too much - not a whole packet for instance.

But adding some blitzed veg as well will help.

For all those of you awaiting a poo report.. Nando has had another bout of constipation, however then when out in the woods this morning produced a normal poo. Light brown an fairly dry, from what I've read this is a perfect raw poo?

Good news, what ever you gave him has worked so just need to keep him going.

We found out that a local butcher does frozen bags of offal chunks. There's heart and liver in there as well as some lung (I think he said lung!) Anyways, I divided 2lbs worth into 14 chunks so hopefully these will be perfect portions. Nando has given it a 5paws rating anyway and cleaned his bowl. Now is just sitting and waiting for more poo to see if I've 'over egged the pudding' so-to-speak.

The butcher has promised me some lamb spine when he next visits his abbotoir. He does venison liver and also certain cuts of crocodile, kangaroo, bison and ostrich meat. Perhaps for Nando's next birthday he can have a bushtucker trial! Lol

wow what a great find that butcher is. Watch carefully with the offal def wouldnt give every day. Yes he could have said ling that would make semse. Wish I could get such a range. Will have to have an arrangement with you to send it down lol

He had pretty much any liver you could ask for and he butchers everything on his site so I suppose lots of minging bits that no humans will want but my dog will!

You are dead right there,  and even stuff that smells off to us, is ok for dogs within reason.

Here is the full list from the btucher's site... anything on there I should avoid?

GAME (In season...) VENISON, SNIPE, TEAL, WOODCOCK, WOODPIGEON, RABBITS, HARES, WILD BOAR, GUINEA FOWL, HAUNCH, PHEASANT, SHOULDER, PARTRIDGE, DICED, BONELESS QUAIL, MINCED

EXOTIC GAME

OSTRICH, KUDU, SPRINGBOK, KANGAROO,

WILD BOAR, BISON AND CROCODILE

Nothing I would avoid I think Nando is very lucky. the trick with raw is variety and as near the original as possible and is practical. eg rabbit is best whole with fur but that may not be possibel for lots of reasons not least some dogs ie mine didnt like it like that but will eat mince. Dont rush to add different varietys and then add it slowly just make sure it agrees with him

Nothing I would avoid I think Nando is very lucky. the trick with raw is variety and as near the original as possible and is practical. eg rabbit is best whole with fur but that may not be possibel for lots of reasons not least some dogs ie mine didnt like it like that but will eat mince. Dont rush to add different varietys and then add it slowly just make sure it agrees with him

Nothing I would avoid I think Nando is very lucky. the trick with raw is variety and as near the original as possible and is practical. eg rabbit is best whole with fur but that may not be possibel for lots of reasons not least some dogs ie mine didnt like it like that but will eat mince. Dont rush to add different varietys and then add it slowly just make sure it agrees with him

Flippin eck Josh... That's a raw feeder's dream. Does he do mail order?

Not much meat on a woodcock, when I was a Nanny I would make up the numbers at dinner parties[ I hated trying to make conversation with these posh folk which sometimes included royalty],one night was served up a whole woodcock skewered with its own beak, I don't think I even got a dessert spoonful of meat, luckily it was only the starter.

Flippin eck Josh... That's a raw feeder's dream. Does he do mail order?

I'm quite lucky I think! I'm literally a 20min walk from this butchers too, about 5 minutes in the car...! We are pretty lucky on the Wirral really for foods. A lot of organic farms and also a HUGE pet food suppliers (Although they have 3 or 4 raw freezers, the majority of the food is dried commercial food), combined with the fact Ann Ridyard distributes meat for DAF about 10 minutes from my house. All-in-all, pretty perfect for us raw feeders.

So now I have a new one... BLACK poo! It is otherwise normal but it is jet black.. He had no problems passing it. This is after some offal last night and some raw egg this morning. His meal tonight was turkey carcass with two nuggets of frozen veg. (Blackberries, cabbage, carrot, sweade, apple, seaweed & spinach) So I will have to see what the poos are like after this!!

Todays buy was some 50p chicken livers and a 2.5kg bag of poultry necks for £2.00! Bargain!

Iron can cause dark stools as will meat with lots of blood like liver etc, it comes out dark soft and tarry.

His gut just need to adjust to the new introductions, don't add too many new things at once because it will be hard to decide what is not agreeing with him.